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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 09 March 2023 19:55:43(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,017
I did just used my CS3 to drive locomotive.
Suddenly i got power failure from wall outlet and CS3 did shut down for short second and restart again automatic.
Locomotive did also stopped and i was forcement to start it again.
Those who write here in the forum by saying trafo are not better than power feeder do have wrong.
Anybody got same similar problem like me?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 09 March 2023 20:27:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Those who write here in the forum by saying trafo are not better than power feeder do have wrong.
With CS3 you have no choice as it no longer works with AC and transformers are no option.
Switching-mode power supplies will keep the voltage for some time when the power fails in the wall outlet, while transformers go down to 0 V immediately.
In which way are transformers better?

What helps is an uninterruptable power supply (UPS).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline thing fish  
#3 Posted : 09 March 2023 20:53:10(UTC)
thing fish

Turkey   
Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
What helps is an uninterruptable power supply (UPS).


Ditto!

Offline rhfil  
#4 Posted : 09 March 2023 22:42:31(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
It is a problem I fortunately do not have but if you do not have a reliable and stable power supply a UPS is one solution.
Offline dickinsonj  
#5 Posted : 10 March 2023 01:15:26(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,683
Location: Crozet, Virginia
After I starting powering my CS3 from a UPS with power conditioning a number of problems went away, so I also strongly recommend using one.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline mvd71  
#6 Posted : 10 March 2023 06:39:51(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Auckland,
I had problems with the previous generation switch mode power supply. They were complete rubbish, and I I changed to a transformer that never missed a beat.

The latest Switch mode thingy seems more stable with the cs3. But the damage is done, transformers for everything except the cs3.
Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 10 March 2023 17:21:25(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,017
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Those who write here in the forum by saying trafo are not better than power feeder do have wrong.
With CS3 you have no choice as it no longer works with AC and transformers are no option.
Switching-mode power supplies will keep the voltage for some time when the power fails in the wall outlet, while transformers go down to 0 V immediately.
In which way are transformers better?

What helps is an uninterruptable power supply (UPS).


It doesn´t matter if switching-mode power will keep power for some time because we are talking about short second before voltage fail and it´s enough that CS3 screen gets blank.
UPS battery backup are expensive and why do you ever think that there is household who buy those stuff that cost hundreds of euro?
UPS battery backup are more designed for the industry PLC.
Not for the toys in the household.


H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 10 March 2023 17:56:00(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,104
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

UPS battery backup are expensive and why do you ever think that there is household who buy those stuff that cost hundreds of euro?


There are small UPS that are designed for home use, and they are quite attractively priced. Certainly not in the hundreds of Euro category, the one I bought about 20 years ago was around the £100 mark.

So to check on this I had a look at the manufacturers web page, sure enough, they are still around the same price ...
https://www.apc.com/uk/en/produc...ent-subcategory-id=88975

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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 10 March 2023 19:01:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Not for the toys in the household.
The Central Station 60212 has a compartment for four AA cells and in the case of a power failure, those cells allow the CS to shutdown without losing data.
In the case of the CS3, you need an external solution.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline bph  
#10 Posted : 10 March 2023 22:13:03(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

UPS battery backup are expensive and why do you ever think that there is household who buy those stuff that cost hundreds of euro?

There are small UPS that are designed for home use, and they are quite attractively priced. Certainly not in the hundreds of Euro category, the one I bought about 20 years ago was around the £100 mark.

So to check on this I had a look at the manufacturers web page, sure enough, they are still around the same price ...
https://www.apc.com/uk/en/produc...ent-subcategory-id=88975

Agree that UPS might be a good option. Personally, I use one on the fibre modem, my router and the alarm central.
a decent priced one from a different maker, that could work nicely on a cs3. the capacity is "low", but should ok for the cs3
https://www.dustinhome.se/product/5011170035/3s-550?

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline Purellum  
#11 Posted : 10 March 2023 22:39:21(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Anybody got same similar problem like me?


Anybody else blaming Märklin for a power failure in Sweden? LOL

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 11 March 2023 00:23:27(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,104
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Anybody got same similar problem like me?


Anybody else blaming Märklin for a power failure in Sweden? LOL

Per.

Cool



LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 11 March 2023 00:26:11(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,104
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

Agree that UPS might be a good option. Personally, I use one on the fibre modem, my router and the alarm central.
a decent priced one from a different maker, that could work nicely on a cs3. the capacity is "low", but should ok for the cs3
https://www.dustinhome.se/product/5011170035/3s-550?



It is interesting to be sitting in the lounge, surfing the internet, and the power goes out. The room goes dark, all the light comes from the laptop screen, and the modem is on a UPS so you can keep surfing the net, but no-one else can do anything ... Cool Cool Cool

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
bph
Offline Goofy  
#14 Posted : 11 March 2023 10:13:51(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,017
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Anybody got same similar problem like me?


Anybody else blaming Märklin for a power failure in Sweden? LOL

Per.

Cool



A typical abnormal fool by Denmark without intelligence comment. Cursing
I did start a friendly topic about a problem i did got and you fool?

Goofy, that comment is borderline abuse to a fellow forum member, please temper your comments. /BDNZ

Edited by moderator 27 March 2023 04:01:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#15 Posted : 11 March 2023 10:17:40(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,017
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

Agree that UPS might be a good option. Personally, I use one on the fibre modem, my router and the alarm central.
a decent priced one from a different maker, that could work nicely on a cs3. the capacity is "low", but should ok for the cs3
https://www.dustinhome.se/product/5011170035/3s-550?



It is interesting to be sitting in the lounge, surfing the internet, and the power goes out. The room goes dark, all the light comes from the laptop screen, and the modem is on a UPS so you can keep surfing the net, but no-one else can do anything ... Cool Cool Cool



But you cannot surf link pages when the connect to the web browser has fail.
You need power from outside anyway.
UPS backup is only to support temporary electronic at home or industry PLC.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline thing fish  
#16 Posted : 11 March 2023 10:25:25(UTC)
thing fish

Turkey   
Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
UPS backup is only to support temporary electronic at home or industry PLC.


Temporary it is. But duration depends on how strong the UPS is (how many batteries in it) and how much current the connected devices draw. For a CS3 only I would imagine a modest UPS will keep it running a good 4-5 hours if not more.

C.
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Offline bph  
#17 Posted : 11 March 2023 10:44:43(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

Agree that UPS might be a good option. Personally, I use one on the fibre modem, my router and the alarm central.
a decent priced one from a different maker, that could work nicely on a cs3. the capacity is "low", but should ok for the cs3
https://www.dustinhome.se/product/5011170035/3s-550?



It is interesting to be sitting in the lounge, surfing the internet, and the power goes out. The room goes dark, all the light comes from the laptop screen, and the modem is on a UPS so you can keep surfing the net, but no-one else can do anything ... Cool Cool Cool



yep, and it happened last week, it was a planned power takeout, and I was the only one in the street with working wifi, and with working internet. Cool
apparently, the local fibre-optic network is powered redundantly in some way.
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Offline bph  
#18 Posted : 11 March 2023 11:10:25(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

Agree that UPS might be a good option. Personally, I use one on the fibre modem, my router and the alarm central.
a decent priced one from a different maker, that could work nicely on a cs3. the capacity is "low", but should ok for the cs3
https://www.dustinhome.se/product/5011170035/3s-550?



It is interesting to be sitting in the lounge, surfing the internet, and the power goes out. The room goes dark, all the light comes from the laptop screen, and the modem is on a UPS so you can keep surfing the net, but no-one else can do anything ... Cool Cool Cool



But you cannot surf link pages when the connect to the web browser has fail.
You need power from outside anyway.
UPS backup is only to support temporary electronic at home or industry PLC.



The UPS keeps my internet connection alive and surfing is not a problem. and who said the ups were my only solution Wink. Last autumn we had a 12-hour power take out and I had working internet all the time......

Yes UPS is only a short-time solution, but it will probably solve your problems. Cool And most ups also have built in power surge protection.
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Offline Purellum  
#19 Posted : 11 March 2023 12:18:29(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


A typical abnormal fool by Denmark without intelligence comment. Cursing
I did start a friendly topic about a problem i did got and you fool?


I think you missed the point LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline kiwiAlan  
#20 Posted : 11 March 2023 15:37:44(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,104
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

apparently, the local fibre-optic network is powered redundantly in some way.


A colleague of mine was involved with commissioning a UPS for the Databank computer centre in Wellington, NZ, back when it was all new and bright and shiney, so this would be in the late 1960's (did you know they had the first drive through teller there in the 1960's, banking from your car). The data centre contained one of the biggest IBM systems in the country, and they had another two similar centres, one in Auckland, and one in Christchurch. They handled the transaction of all four trading banks in the country, and NZ was the first country to have a fully computerised banking system.

The UPS was to maintain power to the mainframe when mains failed, so the mainframe could do an orderly shutdown. But they couldn't use the mainframe as the test load, so they set up three 55 gallon drums filled with brine solution as the dummy load out on the pavement (the system needed to supply three phase power). Above this suspended on a pulley arrangement was a wooden frame with three electrodes that could be raised and lowered as needed to adjust the load current as the water solution boiled off - it was the load after all, so was going to get hot.

The test was set for a Sunday morning when there was minimal traffic around. everything was set up and the test started. All was going well, steam billowing forth and filling the street, electrodes being adjusted to suit the lowering water level, when the Salvation Army citadel opened its doors and the congregation streamed out to find what must have seemed like nothing on earth happening. The requirement was to maintain output from the UPS for 10 minutes, and they reached 10 minutes 10 seconds before the UPS output dies, so they considered the test a success.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#21 Posted : 11 March 2023 16:11:36(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,116
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Very interesting discussion. I have a few points to make, if I may:
- the CS3 / CS2 analyzes its incoming power (DC voltage) and when it goes below a threshold (15 VDC?), the CS power output to track is interrupted and the remaining power from the large capacitors in the switched power supply, gives enough time for the CS3 / CS2 to do its safekeeping (save and close open files, etc). Agreed the best practice is to run the power down sequence.
- adding a UPS is good when the mains are not so stable. Here, in France, even deep in the country side it is not needed in my opinion (except when my son does some welding on his cars Flapper ).
- even with software like Rocrail, when you turn off the power by accident, no problem the system restarts, you simply have to restart (GO command) each loco that was running (i.e.: not the one in sheds or not on the layout).

Cheers
Jean
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Offline marklinist5999  
#22 Posted : 11 March 2023 16:15:47(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,132
Location: Michigan, Troy
I've seen those massive mainframe banks and ups back-ups at the ADP hub in Alpharetta , Ga. It's extremely secure as well. No risk can be allowed for their customer payroll, or benefits data.
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bph
Offline Vic  
#23 Posted : 12 March 2023 20:19:55(UTC)
Vic

Spain   
Joined: 02/03/2023(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Zaragoza
Hi.

Are we talking about backing up a 100VA power supply?

A consumer UPS to manage a desktop PC, equipped with a "small" lead acid battery (12V-4Ah) that could drive at least 300VA lets you run that power supply at full power for almost 25 minutes.

They are economical and simple enough to not even have a fan, but they come with built in power surge protection, and a sound alert.

Regards.
Offline Goofy  
#24 Posted : 25 March 2023 17:02:38(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,017
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


A typical abnormal fool by Denmark without intelligence comment. Cursing
I did start a friendly topic about a problem i did got and you fool?


I think you missed the point LOL

Per.

Cool


And you miss forum rules about to discuss main topic.
You fool around without intelligence comments.
If you want to joke you can do that in another forum area.
Hard to believe? Flapper
Cool

Please refer to my previous comment......

Hard to believe.....??

Edited by moderator 27 March 2023 04:07:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#25 Posted : 25 March 2023 19:25:33(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
And you miss forum rules about to discuss main topic.


In which way was my question not related to the topic? Confused

Per.

Cool



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#26 Posted : 02 April 2023 20:02:02(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,017
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
And you miss forum rules about to discuss main topic.


In which way was my question not related to the topic? Confused

Per.

Cool





It´s not your question.
It´s your jokes and has nothing to do about the topic discuss.
Did you understand now? Huh

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#27 Posted : 02 April 2023 22:00:23(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It´s not your question.
It´s your jokes and has nothing to do about the topic discuss.


My question was my question, and very much related to the topic.

Please read everything again, including comments written in blue.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#28 Posted : 02 April 2023 22:57:47(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
Goofy, Please stop and desist - you've had two warnings already and here's the 3rd, the Red warning...

You should know by now what happens next...../BDNZ
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