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Offline thing fish  
#1 Posted : 03 March 2023 08:34:41(UTC)
thing fish

Turkey   
Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: istanbul
Hi,

I just have checked the new Faller digital car system; 350 Euros for just ONE car/truck!

Maybe it's just me, but isn't that a bit of a strech? 10 cars and you go broke Crying

Anyways; I wonder if Faller still produces regular (non-digital) car system components. If yes, what would be the best strategy: start with regular system and convert to digital later on? Meaning; can regular system components be used with digital?

Thanks,

C.
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Offline pederbc  
#2 Posted : 03 March 2023 09:48:57(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 179
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
Hi,

Check with https://www.fichtelbahn.de/. They have a system to digitise faller cars called Open Car-system. I have converted one truck so far and it’s controlled by DCC. The DCC signal is transmitted wirelessly.

Peder
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Offline thing fish  
#3 Posted : 03 March 2023 09:50:22(UTC)
thing fish

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Thanks Peder!
Offline thing fish  
#4 Posted : 03 March 2023 09:59:31(UTC)
thing fish

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Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: pederbc Go to Quoted Post
I have converted one truck so far and it’s controlled by DCC. The DCC signal is transmitted wirelessly.


How about the road infrastructure in digital; is it the same as Faller (i.e. wire running underneath the track and the vehicle follows it via magnet ...)?

Offline pederbc  
#5 Posted : 03 March 2023 10:15:14(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 179
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
Yes, it’s the same. The car is mounted with a small decoder with wireless receiver. The decoder has output for the motor, ligths, blinkers etc. It also has sensors front and back to keep distance between cars. The problem is to add all features into the car. Start with a big truck first😎
There is full speed control just like a digital lokomotive. So the cars can run in realistic speed.

Peder
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Offline thing fish  
#6 Posted : 03 March 2023 10:17:13(UTC)
thing fish

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Posts: 207
Location: istanbul
Wow ... that sounds amazing. Thanks for the info ThumpUp
Offline Marklineisenbahn  
#7 Posted : 04 March 2023 15:08:56(UTC)
Marklineisenbahn

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Joined: 14/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 252
Location: New York City
Originally Posted by: thing fish Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: pederbc Go to Quoted Post
I have converted one truck so far and it’s controlled by DCC. The DCC signal is transmitted wirelessly.


How about the road infrastructure in digital; is it the same as Faller (i.e. wire running underneath the track and the vehicle follows it via magnet ...)?



Hallo ,
Just wanted to say that Faller Digital is great but way overpriced! As you mentioned one truck ( lorry) goes for 350- Faller upgrade package from analog to digital 200 and Basic Digital start set 900 plus 150 each satellite. I think Faller becomes extremely out of touch for average modeler.
So recently Viessmann released new H0 car system - way cheaper with great performance and configurable features. They accomplished something Faller was struggling with for over 10 years..
Viessmann is rapidly expanding line of cars , programmers ,Ect and is way easier to operate. Just my 2 cents to the pot ( don’t waste your money on Faller go with Viessmann instead )
My Bests,
Märklineisenbahn
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Offline thing fish  
#8 Posted : 04 March 2023 15:12:03(UTC)
thing fish

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Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: Marklineisenbahn Go to Quoted Post
Just my 2 cents


Thanks for that, I guess your advice will exceed ... waaay exceed 2 cents RollEyes

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Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 04 March 2023 15:22:23(UTC)
marklinist5999

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Location: Michigan, Troy
I follow a guy named Oskar Tamiya on I.G. from Florida. He builds his own faller system and 1/87 r.c. vehicles from Busch, Herpa, Wiking, and Malibu Int. ones. He does it all from motors, steering, lighting, dumps, dozers, batteries. He's like a surgeon.
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Offline thing fish  
#10 Posted : 04 March 2023 15:31:42(UTC)
thing fish

Turkey   
Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: Marklineisenbahn Go to Quoted Post
recently Viessmann released new H0 car system


I wonder if Viessmann vehicles can run on pre-existing Faller style roads; I mean follow wires instead of magnetic strips.

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Offline marklinist5999  
#11 Posted : 04 March 2023 15:50:23(UTC)
marklinist5999

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Location: Michigan, Troy
I don't see why not. The pickups aren't very different. The electronics though?
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Offline thing fish  
#12 Posted : 04 March 2023 15:59:39(UTC)
thing fish

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Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I don't see why not. The pickups aren't very different. The electronics though?


Yep, pick-ups are almost identical. I also think the magnet system used at junctions/turns and stop blocks are similar. Since I will start new; I'm trying to figure out if I can build the infrastructure (roads, turns, etc) first and decide on the system/electronics later.
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Offline Marklineisenbahn  
#13 Posted : 04 March 2023 16:13:36(UTC)
Marklineisenbahn

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Joined: 14/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 252
Location: New York City
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I don't see why not. The pickups aren't very different. The electronics though?


Hallo Thing fish,
Principle of Faller and Viessmann car system is same ( in beaded wire or strip in roadway ) motor and tinny magnet on front axle the difference as Marklinist5999 point out are electronics.
As I said earlier Faller is fricken overkill prices wise.
Regards,
Märklineisenbahn
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 05 March 2023 10:23:38(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,657
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Marklineisenbahn Go to Quoted Post
Viessmann is rapidly expanding line of cars , programmers ,Ect and is way easier to operate. Just my 2 cents to the pot ( don’t waste your money on Faller go with Viessmann instead )


I would, but Modellbahn Lippe and others will not sell the Viessmann car items outside of the EU, presumably because of batteries.

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Offline thing fish  
#15 Posted : 05 March 2023 10:28:00(UTC)
thing fish

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Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
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Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
presumably because of batteries.


Wouldn't it be possible Viessmann sell cars without batteries outside EU and the end user installs them later? Are the batteries that special?

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Offline marklinist5999  
#16 Posted : 05 March 2023 14:01:51(UTC)
marklinist5999

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Posts: 3,009
Location: Michigan, Troy
American shops have the Viessman start sets and vehicles listed as new items for 2023. I think it's just that the FCC hadn't approved them yet at introduction. Any device using an r.f. signal must be approved so as not to interfere with any govt. ot military frequencies.
Offline thing fish  
#17 Posted : 05 March 2023 14:41:08(UTC)
thing fish

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Location: istanbul
What you guys think about Open Car System? I personally am a strong believer of any and all "open source" projects.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#18 Posted : 05 March 2023 15:29:51(UTC)
marklinist5999

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It works for Marklin using Linux Debian for the CS3.
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Offline dzug  
#19 Posted : 07 March 2023 01:54:09(UTC)
dzug

Canada   
Joined: 14/04/2011(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: Coquitlam, BC
I have been told by Faller at a show that a lot of the high cost of the Faller Digital (and likely the Viessmann car motion) vehicles is the amount of labor that goes into the the wiring of the electronics and many LEDs on top of the cost of the more advanced electronic 'decoders' and buying the vehicle body from Brekina etc.

You can still buy the 'basic' Faller Car System conversion kits and vehicle for much less. I think the conversion kits are around $80-100 US and finished vehicles are about $20-50 more. Starter sets with a truck or bus and the wire and some road markings etc are about $160.

Personally, I don't think most modellers wanting to add a touch of vehicle animation to their layout really need the Faller Digital system unless money is no object or they really crave the additional features such as speed control and turn signals/brake lights etc. The Faller digital system is almost a separate hobby in its own right! By the time you buy a couple vehicles and the digital modules you can easily spend well over $1000 just to get started!
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Offline marklinist5999  
#20 Posted : 07 March 2023 14:53:06(UTC)
marklinist5999

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Location: Michigan, Troy
True, and many of us don't have much drivable roads space. Thae Magnorail under layout chain drive system is another option. It eliminates self proprelled vehicles.
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Offline kweekalot  
#21 Posted : 07 March 2023 23:15:53(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,435
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: dzug Go to Quoted Post

Personally, I don't think most modellers wanting to add a touch of vehicle animation to their layout really need the Faller Digital system unless money is no object or they really crave the additional features such as speed control and turn signals/brake lights etc. The Faller digital system is almost a separate hobby in its own right! By the time you buy a couple vehicles and the digital modules you can easily spend well over $1000 just to get started!

True !
Of course, to each their own ... but I would never spend € 350 on a single car or truck.
I rather stay with Faller AMS.
Analog of course, but you can also digitize AMS.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
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Offline thing fish  
#22 Posted : 08 March 2023 10:28:44(UTC)
thing fish

Turkey   
Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: dzug Go to Quoted Post
The Faller digital system is almost a separate hobby in its own right! By the time you buy a couple vehicles and the digital modules you can easily spend well over $1000 just to get started!


Yes, that's right.

I think I will start with laying the tracks (road) first, and decide on the system later. Tempted going for the OpenCarSystem though.

C.
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Offline Minok  
#23 Posted : 14 March 2023 23:47:21(UTC)
Minok

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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,309
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
The Viessmann solution that has recently come out, vastly improves on the Faller Car system, which has been stagnant for some time.
The Viessmann system uses the same front axle system to steer, and so would work on existing steel wire laid routes, but is built around the magnetic stripe route solution, as that allows for running without the vehicles steering magnet rubbing against the street surface.

The Viessmann system embeds the electronics well inside the vehicles, and it runs MUCH more quiet than the Faller car system, and most importantly, the embedded controllers in the vehicles are using a bunch of the DC Car and/or Open Car techniques to provide for turn signals and distance keeping/auto braking to stop.

If I were starting today I'd most likely lay magnetic stripe roadway (either Viessmann's or some other magnetic band), and look hard at using the Viessmann vehicles.
What is still not fully developed as far as I can see, is how to get control data to the cars at the roadside that is adjustable. The fixed magnet solutions Viessmann currently has are interesting, but they all do the same thing.. so a way to get DCC control signals from a controller, broadcast out via an IR roadside transmitter, is something that I think is still missing to the Viessmann solution.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#24 Posted : 15 March 2023 11:48:41(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

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{Whisper Mode On} kweekalot, I am with you... {Whisper Mode Off}Cool
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There is a Prototype For Everything
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