Hi all

Is there a better quality controller available for z scale then the maerklin controller?
I'm looking for one with more fine voltage control, a vernier control.
The Rokuhan controllers look better quality, but are they?

I use the Gaugemaster controllers and I think they are excellent. I first tried out the GMC-PZ which controls one train and simulates inertia. I liked it so much, that I got rid of my other two Märklin 67013.s and replaced them with a GMC-DZ (twin track controller). I think that they give out some sort of pulse that just seems to flick older locos' motors a bit to start them off - so you can creep off at a lower speed than when using the Märklin controllers.

Carim

P.S. I just phoned Gaugemaster for you guys - unfortunately, they do not sell any of the cased controllers (those that have an internal transformer) to the US or Canada - it's because of the different voltage. The best that they could do is sell you the Australian version of the "Combi" controller (that needs a separate transformer) - but that's not specifically designed for Z.

I suppose you could try one of their panel mounted controllers and add your own transformer - but I have no idea how that would work. For reference: https://www.gaugemasterretail.com

Hi,

Thanks for the great replies, I have sent a detailed email to Gaugemaster and await their reply. I like the Combi as it suits the portable nature of my layout, but as you say it is not specifically for Z Sale, so I have asked about that. I do have a 220v Step up trans as well.
No responses yet from someone who has the Rokuhan controller, hoping for a reply.
Merry Christmas to all!

I forgot about the NOCH panel mount controller. Never had one and back when I was asking availability was an issue, but I think they are available again.

Well, I think Frank would have been the one to ask about NOCH controllers, maybe call him back ;)
I think you will like the little Snail Speed controller though, for a small or portable layout that would be perfect, if a bit fiddly to operate…

Interesting, I have never seen the old RC01 controller so to be more specific I was referring to the RC02 or RC03 controllers. According to Rokuhan they share the same specs, the RC03 adds features like turnout switches. On Rokuhan.com website they specify them as delivering 900 mAh at 10 volts max.
I bought a pack of those diodes a while back to try with an MRC controller before I found out that I could also buy a modified controller from Z Scale Monster. In any event I got used to the Marklin 67271 controllers and never got an MRC.

Hi all

I had purchased the snail speed controller and I'm very happy with it. It has excellent slow speed control, and the start-stop button has acceleration braking delay which is very nice. The speed potentiometer has a nice quality feel to it making slow speed control adjustments very precise. Both old and new locomotives have nice slow speed control now. The 9-volt battery didn't last very long maybe a few hours, but that's really designed for maybe a small suitcase lay out that only is run intermittently. I had ordered the AC adapter and that is what I use now. All in all a nice product!

Hi,

Be sure to let us know how it works out that sounds interesting.
I've been thinking about taking apart the m a e r k l i n controller and seeing what they're using for a potentiometer/rheostat. Perhaps a simple improvement could be made to that component to improve the performance slow speed.

I just used the uncontrolled 9V DC output and linked that to the switches I am using to operate the turnouts.

Carim

No problem - I will PM you.

Carim

I was quite obsessed with controllers for a while and did quite a bit of background research before rebuilding my controller set up. What I learned in the process is :

- Often what would be regarded as a good quality power supply (low ripple, good regulation) doesn't give the best control. The Marklin controller meets this brief, but doesn't give good low speed control as you have found. (It also has rather course speed increments, but that's another matter! The compromise they have made in this respect is to allow direction to be controlled from the one rotary control. Engineering really is a game of trade-offs!) Conversely the Gaugemaster controls feature a lot of ripple, but give excellent low speed control because of it and are also quite sensitive to load
- Output voltages are very nominal. Many controllers are unregulated and the available voltage is directly dependent upon the mains voltage - so potentially subject to a variation of +/-10%. So it's quite possible a nominally 10V controller could give out 11V. Early Marklin controllers were like this, I believe, so it's nothing to get excessively paranoid about.
- More important than the voltage is the wave shape. Many controllers (and probably all of the ones that will give reasonable slow speed control) have a peak voltage that is higher than the average a multi-meter will show you and it is the level of this peak that is potentially hazardous. This is where having a product that the manufacturer is comfortable to state it's suitable for Z scale is helpful.
- Selling a product internationally is full of problems. Just about every county has its own set of safety requirements which each cost several thousands of dollars to have tested and certified so it's not unusual for a manufacturer not to have products tested in countries where they feel the market is inadequate to justify the cost. Often (usually) their products will perform equally as well once the difference in mains voltage has been taken into account.
- It's hard to believe when you're spending over $100 for a controller, but it's hard to manufacture something that works at that price level. The actual parts cost is probably very low but once everyone in the distribution chain has made their margin it's quite an expensive purchase for you. It's actually quite trivial to design a controller that gives all of the operational characteristics we'd want (i.e. good slow speed control and direction control on the one dial) but there would be an increase in cost that would manufacturers would fear would deter potential buyers. Unfortunately the investment in bringing a new controller to market is such that manufacturers don't want to take any risks.

All this aside (and I realise I've gone on a bit, I'm sorry) I'm glad you have a controller you're 90% happy with. I'll check it out as it sounds interesting. Though probably not available here in the UK!

All the best


Chris

A real controller isn't a pure voltage source, but has some resistance is series with it. With no current draw the voltage dropped across that resistance will be zero, but as current is drawn (by putting a loco on the track, for example) that will develop a voltage across that internal resistance leaving less on the track. Things are often even more complicated as the rectifier inside the controller and smoothing capacitors (if the controller has them) cause a non-linear dependency on the load. Some controllers compensate for this by actively monitoring their output voltage and applying a correcting factor (the current Marklin controller is such a beast). However this isn't always such a good thing as we know - the performance of the Marklin controller is really quite poor! You can be pretty confident that the voltage on load will be less than off load, though!

In reality, most controllers are really quite crude (this is true of the Gaugemaster, too) and the voltage applied to the rails isn't well controller at all, so any voltage levels are best not to be taken too literally!

I mentioned the shape of the waveform, and this is very important - for example a 100V signal that is on for 10ms and off for 90ms is, on average, 10V. However the power developed into a load (i.e. a motor) will be very different. Let's assume the motor winding resistance is 100 Ohms. A pure 10V signal will produce (V x V /R) = 10 x 10 /100 = 1W of power the 100V signal on 10% of the time (still 10V on average) will produce 100 x 100 /100 = 100W, but as it's only on for 10% of the time, the average power is 1/10 of this, i.e. 10W. Which is to say 10 times that of a pure DC supply.

Of course this is a huge simplification, once the motor starts turning tit generates a back EMF, for example, but you can easily see why pulse mode controllers can damage locomotives if their peak voltage is too high.

Hope that is of some help - this is a huge subject and my knowledge of it is really quite surperficial!

Cheers


Chris

There is an interesting HO thread about step up transformers, someone there wants to use a 110 to 220V step up for a Marklin controller in the USA. The crazy thing is we all have 220-240V available here. We use it for our washers and dryers, car charging, etc. One poster suggests that wiring up an outlet in the house "train room" is easily done. Anyway, I guess that would be another option if you could smuggle a Guagemaster into the country ;)

I have 6 of the original blue controllers, a second generation and a third generation controller. Have never done a comparison test on all my locos (all 3 pole motors) as the two latter controllers were basically bought as spares.

I have a custom designed controller which can move the loco by the mm (designed by an electronic expert). The loco sounded horrible moving at more than mm speed, but it was brilliant at this slow speed, but stopped using it.

I basically run trains around a long loop. Not interested in shunting. Not really a Z gauge thing as far as I am concerned.