Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline bygger01  
#1 Posted : 18 December 2022 12:38:09(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Trying again .......

We run Märklin H0 with:

K track with elect. Turnout Mechanism 7549 (with continuous replacement) & 75491.
CS3+
LS150 with AC supply 16.5V


There are ongoing problems with the single track turnout suddenly no longer matching what the track plan shows, and then the 2 blue wires have to be swapped around the LS150.

Has anyone else in this forum experienced this problem?
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 18 December 2022 14:32:20(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,720
LS150 have a programming button.
Push on it and choice output adress by program LS150.
LS150 have 6 outputs and when you choice first 1 as adress rest are automatic to 6.
If you choice first output as adress 7 the rest are up to 12 automatic.
Finish program LS150 by end push on the programming button.
Go to the CS3 keyboard edit symbol and click on it.
Now go to the configuration items and choice outputs adress when you have make sure first that there are symbols of the turnouts on the screen.
You must click on the turnout symbol first before you can configure adress.
LS150 supports only DCC.
Make sure that your CS3 are seted with DCC protocol too.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline bygger01  
#3 Posted : 18 December 2022 15:58:51(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Hi. Goofy

Thanks for the quick reply, but you have answered how to install the LS150 on a CS3.

It happened with 19 units several years ago, and it works in a way fine, but not stable, because suddenly change e.g. a position so that a locomotive instead of turning runs straight ahead.

Since I prefer to build instead of run with layout, it's probably something, that doesn't happen all at once, but gradually, when switching CS3 on and off

So I'm never sure if the track plans I see on the screen are the same as reality.

So a turnout must be inspected manually, to be sure that the turnout is correct (and that with a layout of approx. 45 sq m and almost 114 magnetic items !! )


You might call them wandering settings, and that's the uncertainty I have to deal with.


Right now I'm even thinking of replacing them all with Märklin decoders.


Yesterday I also wrote to Lenz to see if they could come up with a recommendation (I wonder if I should do the same for Märklin?)!


This time I have made a written list and there are 22 magnet articles out of approx. 110 that didn't work, but it was "only" 8-9 pcs. with error display while the rest were either dirt or old drives that will only go to one side.

So for the future - after this adjustment - a new error is brought to the record, so see if there is a picture in the madness .................
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline Goofy  
#4 Posted : 18 December 2022 16:08:34(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,720
Before i did bought CS3 i did used MS2 and Lenz LS150 it worked nice.
It´s good choice to use Märklins m83 and m84 because it is more easy way by let keyboard edit search mfx article and you can use DIP-switches with MM or DCC protocol.
I use DCC with m83 and m84.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline applor  
#5 Posted : 18 December 2022 22:14:48(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,574
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I have not experienced that problem and I have 10x LS150, sorry.

Are they switching reliably every time, just the L+R were swapped? Did it happen on all of them or just some? Any updates to your CS3 and are all turnouts configured the same on CS3?
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline bygger01  
#6 Posted : 19 December 2022 00:38:58(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Hi ”applor” where ever you are in this World

You have started with some simple questions, so I will try to answer in the same way.


You / Are they switching reliably every time, just the L+R were swapped:

They change each time on the screen, and if the drive works, then also the turnouts will change, and it is only uncertain whether it will be L+R or R+L.


You / Did it happen on all of them or just some:

It's random - there's no pattern - and it's a problem that's been there for the last 3-5 years, but now I want to get to the bottom of the problem.


You / Any updates to your CS3:

My CS3 is with the latest update 2.4.0, but the problem was also before with older updates.


You / And are all turnouts configured the same on CS3:

YES / We only have this one CS3 and when other controls are used are they with Apple products ?


While I'm writing this, I'm suddenly unsure if the programming of the LS150 happened on the previous CS2, and just was copied to CS3 / do you think it could be that !!!


Perhaps it would help with some screenshots from my CS3 that show how the "programming" is done ??
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline PJMärklin  
#7 Posted : 19 December 2022 04:35:42(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,134
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: bygger01 Go to Quoted Post
Hi ”applor” where ever you are in this World...



UserPostedImage

Confused


Offline bygger01  
#8 Posted : 19 December 2022 07:46:13(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Thank you.

Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline bygger01  
#9 Posted : 19 December 2022 15:36:27(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
I search the matter ….

And LS150 had been brought in 2016, and I got the CS3+ in 2018, so there is no doubt that the information are copied via a wire from the CS2 to the new CS3 !

So can that be reason for the wandering turnout`s ?
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 19 December 2022 15:52:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: bygger01 Go to Quoted Post
I search the matter ….

And LS150 had been brought in 2016, and I got the CS3+ in 2018, so there is no doubt that the information are copied via a wire from the CS2 to the new CS3 !

So can that be reason for the wandering turnout`s ?


I would be surprised. I suspect that it is more likely the LS150 gets confused with the multiprotocol data on the tracks, so it misses the relevant message.

Another possibility, if you are using only DCC (have you switched mfx and MM off in the cs3?) is that a loco has a noisy motor creating interference on the tracks. I knew someone who had that problem in the early days of Marklin digital, where a motor in one loco was making excessive electrical noise which totally messed up the data stream to all the locos.



Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 19 December 2022 20:44:24(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,720
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

I would be surprised. I suspect that it is more likely the LS150 gets confused with the multiprotocol data on the tracks, so it misses the relevant message.

Another possibility, if you are using only DCC (have you switched mfx and MM off in the cs3?) is that a loco has a noisy motor creating interference on the tracks. I knew someone who had that problem in the early days of Marklin digital, where a motor in one loco was making excessive electrical noise which totally messed up the data stream to all the locos.



No...digital locomotive are equipped with "drossel" to avoid disturbances.
New digital locomotives made of Märklin today are DC motor.
I believe it´s too much protocol traffic on the tracks that make possible interference Lenz turnout decoder.
When i did used Trix MS2 i did just have DCC protocol stand for both locomotive and turnouts.
That´s way LS150 did worked fine with the MS2.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 19 December 2022 21:29:14(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

When i did used Trix MS2 i did just have DCC protocol stand for both locomotive and turnouts.
That´s way LS150 did worked fine with the MS2.


But we aren't talking about your layout Goofy.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline applor  
#13 Posted : 20 December 2022 01:48:02(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,574
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I have never experienced the behaviour you have described and I struggle to understand how it's possible.

My only issue has been with my last (new) LS150 not responding as per my thread:
https://www.marklin-user...g---CS2-vs-lokprogrammer

My thoughts are the turnout type/function (icon) shown on the CS3 may be the cause. I don't have a CS3 but on the CS2 you can select different output types.
In this case you need to determine if the problem is the LS150 or the CS3.
I only say that because my LS150 fault had no problems when testing with the ESU lokprogrammer, a pure DCC controller.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline Goofy  
#14 Posted : 20 December 2022 05:38:14(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,720
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

When i did used Trix MS2 i did just have DCC protocol stand for both locomotive and turnouts.
That´s way LS150 did worked fine with the MS2.


But we aren't talking about your layout Goofy.



What´s difference?
You use same system like others.
Or are you telling to us that there is bad quality control by manufacture check components before leaving factory?

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline bygger01  
#15 Posted : 20 December 2022 10:02:04(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Yesterday I had a visit from a more knowledgeable CS3 friend, and even more turnouts had changed compared to the screen …..

But the only conclusion was that I had to give up and replace all 19 LS150 with decoder 60832 from Märklin.

So now there will soon be 19 pieces for sale.

At the age of 76, restlife has become too short for such problems …………….
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bygger01
Offline bygger01  
#16 Posted : 03 January 2023 17:35:14(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Before Corona hit me on 27/12 I have done so:

Now I have gone through all 18 boxes LS150 with their gates (one gate = 3 terminal blocks with yellow = 2 in the middle and blue = 1&3 on both sides (Märklin))

A 24V light bulb was also used because, in addition to the clicks from the switches, I also want to check whether the light bulb lit up for roughly the same time as the red LED on the LS150.

We never changed the pulse time on the 18 boxes, so it should be 0.100 sec ) but the 18 boxes were purchased in 2016 ).

But there were a few that are affected differently and longer than the short factory set time and these are:

#3
• Port 3 Short LED flash, but with constant light in the bulb on both 1 & 3, for a short period
• Port 4 Short LED flashes, but with constant light in the bulb on 1
• Port 5 Long LED flash, no light in the bulb, but the track switch is broken in that direction
• Port 6 Long LED flash that goes out when the track change has changed

#4
• Port 1 Long LED flash, but the track change changes immediately
• Port 3 Long LED flash, but the track changes immediately, but on 1 there was a hum as long as there is light in the bulb. It together on 3 but no hum

#9
• Port 1 short LED – quick change – but constant light in both 1&3
• Port 2 short LED – quick change – but constant light in 1 or 3, with it changing with a new impulse
• Port 3 short LED – quick change – but constant light in 1 or 3, with it changing with a new impulse
• Port 4 short LED – switches fine - but with constant light in the bulb on both 1 & 3
• Port 5 short LED – switches fine - but with constant light in the bulb on both 1 & 3
• Port 6 with several flashes per the wire / track change is a bit sluggish and needs to be inspected


We also work with 2 different drives Märklin 7549 / 75491 the new and MTB TP1, if the impulse is converted to 12V DC voltage via bistable relay with 2 bridges in front to change AC to DC, but there are no problems with any of the ports that provides MTB with an impulse!

Hope this information helps you with the simple advice to avoid switches that from time to time are set opposite to what the CS3 screen shows (now that I've gone through all 18 boxes I'll also note which port gives equal now gives straight in lane change):

• 1. Can the 3 strange boxes be fixed to the factory settings (can I do it myself)
• 2. Are they broken and must 3 new ones be used (I wonder if a cause is known so that this can be avoided)
• 3. Or should I switch to Märklin m 83 60832

I hope of course that someone can help me get a model railway that I can trust

So come in with your wote
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline Goofy  
#17 Posted : 07 January 2023 20:10:17(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,720
A simple question...have you tried with another digital system?
When i did tried only DCC protocol in the CS3 and a Märklin/Brawa digital locomotive with DCC protocol my locomotives acted strangely.
In this case the fault was CS3 set at only DCC protocol, but that was earlier version too.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline bygger01  
#18 Posted : 07 January 2023 22:07:54(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
No - Sorry I don’t think it is going to happen …..

We are talking about turnout’s …..
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline Goofy  
#19 Posted : 07 January 2023 23:20:40(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,720
Originally Posted by: bygger01 Go to Quoted Post
No - Sorry I don’t think it is going to happen …..

We are talking about turnout’s …..


What is the difference?
We are writing about same DCC protocol speaking between system and the turnouts decoder/ locomotive decoder.
Have you tried with another digital system and use it with the Lenz LS150?

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline bygger01  
#20 Posted : 07 January 2023 23:37:09(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Listen !

We one layout with around 250 mtr. track in room around 45 kvm. - We one CS3 - We don’t to try more in a age of 76, because there are not many more shots left …….
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bygger01
Offline Copenhagen  
#21 Posted : 08 January 2023 00:10:44(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 333
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted by: bygger01 Go to Quoted Post
Listen !

We one layout with around 250 mtr. track in room around 45 kvm. - We one CS3 - We don’t to try more in a age of 76, because there are not many more shots left …….


Have you tried asking on the Danish website sporskiftet? (I know you have asked on "baneforum", another Danish site - without any solutions).
Offline bygger01  
#22 Posted : 08 January 2023 08:05:06(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bygger01 Go to Quoted Post
Listen !

We one layout with around 250 mtr. track in room around 45 kvm. - We one CS3 - We don’t to try more in a age of 76, because there are not many more shots left …….


Have you tried asking on the Danish website sporskiftet? (I know you have asked on "baneforum", another Danish site - without any solutions).



No, I haven't, because I've assessed that Baneforum was the best in these kinds of questions, but there weren't many answers!

But if you think it makes sense, then I will do it, but then I will turn the post around, so instead I ask if there are good experiences with the combination CS3 & Lenz LS150....
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline Goofy  
#23 Posted : 08 January 2023 08:57:04(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,720
Originally Posted by: bygger01 Go to Quoted Post
Listen !

We one layout with around 250 mtr. track in room around 45 kvm. - We one CS3 - We don’t to try more in a age of 76, because there are not many more shots left …….


Okey
But can you try ask to borrow someone another digital system?
I believe the fault are CS3+...?
When i did used MS2 it did work excellent with LS150 with only DCC protocol stand in the MS2.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline bygger01  
#24 Posted : 08 January 2023 10:28:35(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Sorry but i only have access to a CS3+ .............
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline Copenhagen  
#25 Posted : 08 January 2023 12:34:44(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 333
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
The thing that I don't understand is that the problem seems to be that the symbols on the CS3 screen change, for example, from green to red without any reason. Like if every turnout is set to green both on screen and on the layout and then you close the CS3 and turn power off. Then when you next time power on everything else then some of the turnouts on the screen are suddenly red instead of green, but on the layout they are not changed but are still in "green" position?
Offline bygger01  
#26 Posted : 08 January 2023 13:01:33(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Let's say that everything works perfectly - everyone is happy - then one day a train has to go through a turnout - and then the turnout is set opposite the screen - if the turnout had been swich a few time since everyone was happy, I don't know - screen is different.

The normal thing will then be to exchange the two blue wires in the LS150 / test / and then continue....

But the trust is gone, you can't switch - hear a click - and then go and check if it's correct

Maybe there is something in the opening time - it has never changed - so it is 0.1 second.

But right now it's debugging div. magnet articles after a round of Corona ….

Then I want to find the port on the LS150 at all switches that changes a switch straight away.

And then I'm ready for the first misrepresentation, because it must show whether it's the CS3 or the LS150 that

But I feel like "Palle alone in the World" ……..


It's a shame that it's so far from Copenhagen to Herning, but do you have experience with the LS150?
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline Copenhagen  
#27 Posted : 08 January 2023 14:37:21(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 333
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Sorry I wouldn't be able to help anyway. I only have Marklin's built in decoders and handfull of their M83.

Since I believe you have 19 Ls150 modules that can each control six turnouts it will be expensive to switch to M83.

I do think that you should give "sporskiftet" forum a chance. It can't hurt and there are lots of experienced guys there.
Offline bygger01  
#28 Posted : 08 January 2023 15:44:37(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
First of all now I been through them all - there are only 18 ……

I am close to buy the same numbers off ports in m 83, but I had talked Ken from Hobbykæden, and asked him for at good price, but even him said that could try again.

So that is now happening - so a start from fresh - and 3 of the LS150 had to be reset ( here I will ask my good friend Aage to come and support me )

Just now 7549 is out and a new 75491 is but in to service.

Regarding the Sporskiftet, I will make a post tonight / don't you call yourself Copenhagen here?
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline bygger01  
#29 Posted : 08 January 2023 17:55:08(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Those, who know Danish, can now also follow the long story at Sporskiftet .........................
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline bygger01  
#30 Posted : 15 January 2023 20:46:20(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Breacking news ......

Now list had been clear .....

And then I started from box 1 and when carrying on, then 3-4 of the switch had change the setting between screen and reality, so I up against the wall with a flat nose .....

I do think the future is m 60632 !
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
Offline bygger01  
#31 Posted : 17 January 2023 20:31:47(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
If you read danish, then I think, that there is opening with help of Sporskiftet, so I will come back .....

Out of curiosity, I would like to know if Copenhagen had a hand in the game.
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bygger01
Offline bygger01  
#32 Posted : 18 January 2023 18:41:53(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
The faulty LS150 has been worked on!

The 3 faulty ones have been reset, which was successful, but it took several attempts, and they now work like the others.


But changing the pulse time on the ports that work with MTB, we couldn't get it to work.

A user at the Danish Spporskifte has pointed out, that you could also use AC on MTB, so to avoid my prints, the impulse time had to be increased from 0.1 to 2 seconds, but we couldn't figure that out.

First we try if we could change the CV values but we could connect the decoder and then we tried to follow the manual but it was too difficult for us.

Is there any advice on that??
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bygger01
Offline bygger01  
#33 Posted : 20 January 2023 16:40:01(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
Now there is one MTB, that is working direct on an impulse ( = 2 sec. ) from a LS150

What a progress ......

The story has had a happy ending ........

Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bygger01
Offline Purellum  
#34 Posted : 20 January 2023 17:49:20(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,470
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Good news Blink

I wish I could help BigGrin

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline bygger01  
#35 Posted : 20 January 2023 18:03:34(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: Herning in Denmark
It was Mr. PTMadsen ...
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bygger01
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2023, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.768 seconds.