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Offline kimballthurlow  
#1 Posted : 20 September 2022 00:32:49(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,337
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Here is a challenge.

I came across a book with some details of a Buttterwagen designed and built for the DRG in 1927 and 1930.
There were about 30 or so of these wagons and as you can guess they carried butter.
Specifically they were used out of Schleswig-Holstein (the area in northern Germany near the Danish border).
That was famous for its dairy industry which supplied many parts of Germany.
Apparently these wagons were part of the Deutsche Post fleet, and could carry ice and butter from Flensburg to Leipzig in under 12 hours to best preserve the contents.

The wagon seemed to be based on the Gl type of Dresden wagon modelled by Märklin extensively in Z, HO and 1 gauges.
I would like to have a go at modifying a Gl wagon in the HO scale.
The major requirement is the insertion of recessed side doors (with window) at one end, much like one end of the typical Gepackwagen Pwi used in Donnerbuchsen consists.
There is a small window above a brake-wheel bulge at this end of the wagon.
Then add steps for the doors.
There are also 4 roof vents similar to those on Donnerbuchsen cars between the side door and the recessed door only.

The Gl wagon example in HO #00794:

Gl

The Pwi wagon example in HO showing the recessed end doors #4103.
With acknowledgment to Michelstaedter Modellbahntreff:

4103

Maybe I will get around to it one day and run it with my excellent #4329 Post set for era II.
With acknowledgment to Michas-Bahnhof:
4329


Kimball

Edited by user 21 September 2022 09:22:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline applor  
#2 Posted : 20 September 2022 04:25:16(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,539
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Good luck!
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#3 Posted : 20 September 2022 06:37:37(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,337
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Thank you Eric,
I am very inclined to do this but a project for another time, because I am busy at work.
Mind you Märklin could save me the trouble by releasing a newly tooled Butterwagen.

I would start with this wagon which comes from a Märklin set 48812. Sometimes they come up on eBay.

1. Put dummy hinges on the 2 doors, so that each side has two hinged doors with a latch in the middle,
2. get rid of the sliding door channels,
3. cut out the small end window,
4. add the brake wheel bulge and
5. fashion the recessed door from styrene.
That means the only real bashing is cutting out 2 corners of the wagon with a razor saw.
6. Then add clear material to doors and windows, steps below the door, and that would do me.

With acknowledgment to benontspoord.nl.

48812-Dresden

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Toosmall  
#4 Posted : 20 September 2022 08:09:26(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Sydney
It may be easier to pull the top half off and rebuild it. At least it is all square, except for the roof which I would laminate, with dichloroethane solvent, out of 0.5mm high impact styrene sheet around a cylinder until the solvent has gone off properly. Then cut down to size, length and width. 3 or 4 layers.

The restaurant car is not made in Z gauge so I made one: https://www.marklin-user...7265-ICE-Bord-Restaurant

Ideas here which might help building up the 3 dimensional object with styrene: https://www.marklin-user...sts/t47774-Z-gauge-buses

For flush glazing put a tiny step inside the styrene sheet to sit the glass up against. Otherwise it is very difficult to position precisely.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#5 Posted : 20 September 2022 09:33:38(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,337
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Toosmall Go to Quoted Post
.... the roof which I would laminate, with dichloroethane solvent, out of 0.5mm high impact styrene sheet around a cylinder until the solvent has gone off properly. Then cut down to size, length and width. 3 or 4 layers.
.....
For flush glazing put a tiny step inside the styrene sheet to sit the glass up against. Otherwise it is very difficult to position precisely.



Hello Toosmall,

The roof of the Butter wagon is the same profile as the Gl, so I dont need to create the roof material.
Thanks for the tip on the glazing, the clear material must then be cut reasonably precisely.
regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 20 September 2022 15:08:21(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,998
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
These days I get my butter from the supermarket

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Toosmall  
#7 Posted : 20 September 2022 22:26:26(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Sydney
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
These days I get my butter from the supermarket

On the 15th Aldi closed a store in Sydney which we used, the property owner upped the rent. Now we have to go elsewhere for butter. No trains in our part of Sydney to get butter!
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Offline Toosmall  
#8 Posted : 20 September 2022 23:08:27(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Sydney
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the tip on the glazing, the clear material must then be cut reasonably precisely.
regards
Kimball

For windows cut a strip to a common dimension, scoring each side with scalpel blade (10A are my favourite https://www.marklin-user...-Scalpel-blade-quality).

Then with with say 240 grit sanding boards (wet and dry glued both sides with 3M Super 77 to 1mm Forex, expanded PVC). Sand window to the exact size. Cut off to length and sand ends.

Cut sanding boards to width to tidy up tight spaces.

DSC_1226_065355.jpg
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#9 Posted : 21 September 2022 00:03:41(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,337
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Apparently Dingler produced a HO model exactly according to the book.
..... Except for the lettering panels along the side.
But they are as rare as rocking horse sh...

This photo is of the Dingler. It was also produced with the lettering on the panels - REICHSPOST KÜHLWAGEN.

Dingler post van

here is the book description of this wagon.
The Bavarian group administration of the DRG for use by the Deutsche Reichpost has ten Post refrigerated wagons for transporting butter as Post-cl/10.8 type


regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Toosmall  
#10 Posted : 21 September 2022 01:35:32(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Sydney
If you need to score horizontal lines, or tiles for that matter. Unless you have a drafting board, on the back of a couple of rulers stick tape to stick a sheet of high impact styrene with masking tape or whatever. About 150mm wide is the most or it gets really tedious, 200mm at a stretch (a drawing board about 400mm maximum). If you need tiles rotate 90°.

An Olfa P cutter 450 with V blade is ideal for scoring lines.

If you have some imperial rulers you have other spacing options. The V blade will locate in the steel ruler measurements for alignment. Use every second line on the ruler for wider spacing.

Toledo mat surface finish rulers are the best. Shiny rulers are not as easy to see the ruler markings. Rest the ruler up against the positioned scorer, one end then the other and score line.

DSC_1231_091902.jpg

DSC_12311_014449.jpg

Edited by user 21 September 2022 05:46:58(UTC)  | Reason: Add close up photo

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Offline kimballthurlow  
#11 Posted : 21 September 2022 09:18:19(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,337
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Toosmall,
Thanks for the tips on scoring.
I found double sided tape immeasurably useful in doing or holding all sorts of jigs or for repetitive work or adhering piece by piece articles.
Have you ever noted when buying cheap $2 steel rulers that the graduations do not start perfectly from the end of the rule?

Alba book 1986
Page 233

The photos above show the relevant information in the book.
The book was published in 1986.
The smell of the book (which came brand new in plastic wrapper) takes me back 40 or more years when I ran a bookshop.
Sublime!!!

I am putting some thought into how best to build this.
Obtaining the Dingler wagon is the priority, because it is perfect.
Bashing a Märklin or Roco wagon is the plan B option.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#12 Posted : 21 September 2022 10:03:18(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,323
Location: Southwesternmost
Dunno if this helps: Dingler presented the design in 2008 - see photo.
http://www.muehlenroda.d...l/dingler3_DSC_0785.html

There are two article numbers for versions with different lettering, 010213 and 010226. Source (2018 German post with photos): https://www.altemodellba...wagen-Deutsche-Post.html

While not available anymore on his website, this German dealer description might be helpful for future online searches:
https://www.modellbahn-r...t-kuehlwagen-post-2-ovp/
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Offline Toosmall  
#13 Posted : 21 September 2022 11:36:42(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Sydney
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Have you ever noted when buying cheap $2 steel rulers that the graduations do not start perfectly from the end of the rule?

Kimball

Can't recall buying a non Toledo ruler!

_MG_6442_070050.jpg
Offline kimballthurlow  
#14 Posted : 22 September 2022 00:43:13(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,337
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Dunno if this helps: ....


Thank you Ak.
I followed those links and have enough now to embed a search for the Dingler.
Thanks
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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