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Offline Mr. Ron  
#1 Posted : 03 August 2022 19:09:28(UTC)
Mr. Ron

United States   
Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 244
Location: Mississippi, Vancleave

It appears that all railroad tracks have telephone poles paralleling them. What circuits are carried on the wires? I would suspect signal systems would be one of them and maybe communication lines between stations. I'm thinking of using telephone poles to run switch machine wiring and power feeds, along with power for lighting. What do you think? It seems like a lot of work, but I'm trying to keep all wiring above the layout and not under it. Using LEDS for lighting would use very small wire size.
Offline Toosmall  
#2 Posted : 03 August 2022 23:29:33(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 233
Location: Sydney
You would never get the wire thin enough to look at a reasonable scale and still be insulated.

I think you would have far more practical wiring under the layout (or run to an edge), plugs and terminal blocks, where you can have all the wire in a common sense order. You can also have an earth so to speak, one really heavy negative so to some degree you only need to run positive wires.

Not only having wire oversized for resistance, oversized wire is easier to handle.

I used some sewing thread for the T-bar ski lift, it is Z gauge, but nevertheless it is still well over scale. If you used functioning wire it will be thicker. Then you will need to run wire connectors under the layout anyway and more than likely it is in a difficult location. I would aim to have all wire connection in a civilised location where you can sit on a chair for original design and maintenance.

Maybe even bring the terminals above the layout, hidden by a lift off building or two.

IMG_1467_084626.jpg
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 04 August 2022 01:00:34(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,120
Location: Paris, France
Hi Ron
To use telephone wires to carry lights is possible if you use LEDs and thin enameled wire using 0,1 mm wire like this https://www.ebay.de/itm/25300272...32f33:g:4c0AAOSw9~5ZRN6l
The troubles with this solution:
- you need to have a lot of patience to make it
- you can't use it for electromagnetic articles (current is too high
- it is not elastic so any distubance will make the wires hang

There is another solution:
- to add decoders inside your M Track switches
- to suppress all stop sections
- to drive your trains in digital.

Sounds bizarre I know but this way you can avoid almost all the wiring (maybe add a feeder each 2 m of track.
Drawback: you probably want to avoid automatic operation (because it calls for ùmany feedback sensors that require wiring).

I know you have Märklin M but here is a British Railfan with Hornby Dublo (3 rails with Märklin-like rails)
He has ABSOLUTELY NO WIRING under the table

Maybe it will give you the inspiration you need
You may find tiny decoders to install under the M switches to suppress wiring, etc
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
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Offline Mman  
#4 Posted : 04 August 2022 19:59:19(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 219
Location: England, Guildford
What circuits are carried on the wires?
In the UK it would have been (signal) box to box telephones, local bus telephone circuits, box to control room, distant signal proving (return via the rails), block instruments and with different colour insulators maybe a 110v supply.
Later the poles were kept and used to suspend multi core cables in place of the individual copper wires which people kept stealing. Some wires were used simply as a theft alarm that if cut would sound an alarm in the nearby boxes.
Later still the aerial cables were dropped into concrete troughing on the ground.
Did you know that the cross trees on telegraph poles are always on the ‘up’ side of the posts? Similarly the tongues of the concrete troughing were supposed to point in the up direction (usually towards London).
ChrisG

Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 04 August 2022 20:32:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,923
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post

Later still the aerial cables were dropped into concrete troughing on the ground.


And that doesn't stop them being pinched ... Blink
Offline Mr. Ron  
#6 Posted : 04 August 2022 20:44:47(UTC)
Mr. Ron

United States   
Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 244
Location: Mississippi, Vancleave
Half of my 20 turnouts are wired up under the table, so I guess I will just bite the bullet and continue with under table wiring. As for the noise, I will have to live with it. Maybe I can enlist my son to help me finish the wiring. One of these days, I hope to be able to post finished photos of my layout. I wish to thank all of you who have tried to help me.
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Offline Mr. Ron  
#7 Posted : 04 August 2022 20:53:40(UTC)
Mr. Ron

United States   
Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 244
Location: Mississippi, Vancleave
Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post
What circuits are carried on the wires?
In the UK it would have been (signal) box to box telephones, local bus telephone circuits, box to control room, distant signal proving (return via the rails), block instruments and with different colour insulators maybe a 110v supply.
Later the poles were kept and used to suspend multi core cables in place of the individual copper wires which people kept stealing. Some wires were used simply as a theft alarm that if cut would sound an alarm in the nearby boxes.
Later still the aerial cables were dropped into concrete troughing on the ground.
Did you know that the cross trees on telegraph poles are always on the ‘up’ side of the posts? Similarly the tongues of the concrete troughing were supposed to point in the up direction (usually towards London).
ChrisG



I am not familiar with telegraph poles in the UK. By "up" side, does that mean the cross tree is mounted on the side facing London?
Offline Toosmall  
#8 Posted : 04 August 2022 21:46:46(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 233
Location: Sydney
In effect I avoided wiring my layout. I ran all the cables to plugs. A 36 pin plug for power and SCSI plug for points on each layout module.

Then I did all the complex wiring in the control panel. It can be plugged in on any of the modules. Or if I decided to add another module to extend the layout, I could just plug the control panel in there.

The switches for the points I just made up a pile of generic units and they plug in as well. So the only really complex part is the circuit board with all the relays which I built at my desk in a civilised maner and then plug it in. Everything plugs in, it costs a bit more but it beats turning oneself into a pretzel under the layout.

The wiring may look complex, but it is simple due to making as much of it as plug in components, which can be replaced with generic spares.

60017.jpg

DSC_0667_114605.jpg

DSC_0668_114603.jpg

DSC_0669_114559.jpg
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 04 August 2022 23:26:20(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,923
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Mr. Ron Go to Quoted Post
Half of my 20 turnouts are wired up under the table, so I guess I will just bite the bullet and continue with under table wiring. As for the noise, I will have to live with it. Maybe I can enlist my son to help me finish the wiring. One of these days, I hope to be able to post finished photos of my layout. I wish to thank all of you who have tried to help me.


To reduce the noise fill the cavity under the track with felt, styrofoam, or anything that will kill the resonant chamber under the track and damp the metal roadbed from vibrating.
Offline Toosmall  
#10 Posted : 05 August 2022 00:43:27(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 233
Location: Sydney
I have stuffed my car full of acoustic foam, probably spent a lot more than most people but it is amazing the difference it makes if you are prepared to do things properly. It was mostly to reduce the noise from all terrain tyres. No reason it can't be done for a train layout.
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