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Offline Rob11966  
#1 Posted : 18 April 2022 00:44:48(UTC)
Rob11966

Australia   
Joined: 18/04/2022(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
Dear Forum Members,

I am a new member, having got back into the hobby after many years. I have upgraded from a DC layout to a DCC layout and have recently purchased a number of HO Trix locomotives (all steam). The difference between them and the old DC models that I used to run is amazing and I am having a lot of fun with them.

Part of my enjoyment is the technical side and I have had a lot of trouble finding any information on the modern Marklin/Trix can motors and I was wondering if anyone can help.

I was specifically interested in the brand of motor that Marklin uses, whether they are brushless and the life expectancy. For such an important part of the locomotive, there seems to be a paucity of information.

I have searched the forum and found nothing recent but please accept my apology in advance if I have missed this information.

Rob
Offline Mman  
#2 Posted : 18 April 2022 08:14:21(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 219
Location: England, Guildford
Yes, I have similar questions about the Z gauge can motors especially how long might they last and why are the locos so much slower with them fitted. The current consumption is tiny which means that Rokuhan controllers can be used which is a plus point.
ChrisG
Offline Danlake  
#3 Posted : 18 April 2022 11:32:13(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,564
Hi Rob,

Can’t help you with the specific type of can motor Marklin used apart from most likely a generic Chinese motor they source.

On the forum here there have been extensive discussion in regards to 3 pole versus 5 pole motor and Marklin strategic decision to move away from motor that can and needs maintenance to the enclosed can motors.

Personally I have been quite happy with performance. To be honest some of my best driving performance loco is Roco with can motors.

For some of my dearer Marklin steam loco I have actual bought spare can motors when I purchase the loco. If you want top of the notch I suggest to look at SB modelbau :

https://www.sb-modellbau.com/

There has been some discussion here on can motors, see this thread and post #18 mentioning an estimate for expected running hours:

https://www.marklin-user...posts/t44589-Motor-types

Best Regards
Lasse



Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 18 April 2022 12:26:57(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,129
Location: Paris, France
Hi Rob

In the latest locos, Märklin uses CAN motors (long closed maintenance-free motors)
Here is an example on the BR95 ref 39095
39095 Inside.png
It is fair to say they are not bad and probably not expensive (Märklin prices them at 25€). Regular bearings.
In the previous years (2004 to 2014) Märklin used Sinus and C Sine , SDS motors. They were much better (ball bearings, no brush) but they are not repairable anymore.
Another type used in the past years is the ironless rotor. First used on the Wurttemburgische C type (3611), here on the bR45 (37450)
37450 motor.png (1,462kb) downloaded 55 time(s).

Before this there were "coffee grinders". The ubiquitous Märklin motor (large, noisy and solid)


Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
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Offline Unholz  
#5 Posted : 18 April 2022 14:15:22(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,332
Location: Switzerland
Here is a general overview of various Marklin (and other) motor types. The text is in German but can easily be translated with https://www.deepl.com/translator :
https://www.stayathome.ch/motoren.htm
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Offline marklinist5999  
#6 Posted : 18 April 2022 14:16:29(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,701
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, and all the makers are using them now. Some Roco's still have open frame motors, but all are a 5 pole design. Very similar. Some have plastic housings, some metal. I think all Roco's still have replacable brushes.
Falhauber and Maxxon;s may be brushless, but are more expensive.
Offline bph  
#7 Posted : 18 April 2022 15:33:48(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 522
Hi

I found this list a while back, it's a bit old, but will give you an idea.
http://docplayer.org/32163427-1-3m-0-1rklin-neue-motoren-generation-f-1r-lok-s.html

note that the list is not complete and there might be motors from different makers that have the same Marklin spare part number, or other incomplete information/errors.
eg motor spare part 209219 is listed in several locomotives with Maxon and Faulhaber as makers. I have a spare 209219 and that one is made by Escacp. (don't remember what type of motor my locomotive actually has)
another example is the early big boy motor 216907. in the list, it's listed as Faulhaber, but my big boy 37990 is factory fitted with a Maxon A-max motor. I also have a spare 216907 that is the same type Maxon. if don't know if that's an error or if some big boy's where actually fitted with a Faulhaber motor.

and then you have some locomotives that have had several motor makers over the years. Eg the Württ C /br 18.1. My 37112 has a Faulhaber and my later C from 31021 has a Maxon. And in later versions, have an unmarked Märklin motor. eg in 37119. (part E253759).

I don't buy a spare motor for all my locomotives, just a few with an unusual type that might be hard to find in the future etc.
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Offline Rob11966  
#8 Posted : 18 April 2022 15:49:15(UTC)
Rob11966

Australia   
Joined: 18/04/2022(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
Thank you all for your replies which are greatly appreciated.

I certainly have no complaints regarding the motors, they are smooth, quiet and operate extremely well at low speeds (in the engines I have at least). Agreed, they certainly draw a low current with is good. Speed wise, I have no issue, in fact I have reduced the maximum speed on most of my locomotives. They are a quantum leap from the open frame motors that I grew up with - my old collection is Wrenn, which is obviously very dated now but the motors are still going strong, although I did get a re-magnetiser for the tired ones.

I was hoping that someone was going to tell me the Marklin motors were German made, with an almost unlimited life expectancy! However, I suspected that the lack of information about them from the manufacturer suggested that they were possibly cheaper and not a main selling point.

I also contemplated buying spare motors but figured that Marklin/Trix would maintain spares for some time. I also saw in the link provided by Lasse the conversion kits and I will have a look at that website in detail tomorrow.

Thanks again for all of the information.

Cheers,

Rob





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Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 19 April 2022 00:03:47(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,701
Location: Michigan, Troy
I thought the the Marklin Klasse C had a Falhauber motor. I know the first ICE did. Marklin will offer older parts like the round and square brushes for a good while yet. Armatures are still listsed as well.
I saw repower kits and micromotors on a German shop website for Roco's. The motors are round, and metal. The Roco kits have a plastic outer flat can that the motor slides into.
They may fit Marklin Locos. with cardan shaft drives as the deigns are very similar now.
Offline dickinsonj  
#10 Posted : 19 April 2022 01:03:23(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,516
Location: United States
My Württemberg Class C Model 3611 has a Falhauber motor but that probably changed with the most recent version from a few years ago.

It is very rare these days to see any Märklin locos with anything but the unmarked generic motors , which are at least cheap and easily replaceable. If they go away we had better hope that someone has a higher quality motor option from Maxon or Falhauber. That would be nice anyway if you have the money and the time to do that. I am more likely to face those decisions when one of my motors dies and demands my attention. BigGrin

So far just a few have died and they were steamers with the gearbox input shaft immediately adjacent to the motor. You have to watch the grease levels on those or they will not last very long once grease gets pushed back into the motor. Some have come from the factory awash in grease and some have come without any, so it pays to check.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 19 April 2022 11:35:25(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,129
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I thought the the Marklin Klasse C had a Falhauber motor. I know the first ICE did. Marklin will offer older parts like the round and square brushes for a good while yet. Armatures are still listsed as well.

You thought right. A ironless motor ("Glockenankermotor") is a Faulhaber or similar.
Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
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Offline bph  
#12 Posted : 19 April 2022 20:46:35(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I thought the the Marklin Klasse C had a Falhauber motor. I know the first ICE did. Marklin will offer older parts like the round and square brushes for a good while yet. Armatures are still listsed as well.
I saw repower kits and micromotors on a German shop website for Roco's. The motors are round, and metal. The Roco kits have a plastic outer flat can that the motor slides into.
They may fit Marklin Locos. with cardan shaft drives as the deigns are very similar now.

Yes, the early Württ C/18.1 had Faulhaber motors, and there was a "middle period" when they were fitted with Maxon motors. As I wrote above my 37112 is fitted with a Faulhaber and my later Württ C from 31021 is fitted with Maxon motor.
According to Märklin customers service the new motor from the latest Württ C, part E253759 can be used as a spare part to replace the Maxon motor (part E280560). So E253759 can probably also be used as a spare for the C's with Faulhaber, as the Maxon is marked with the same spare part no as the Faulhaber motor spare part no.(602620).
The Faulhaber and Maxon motors and gears in my 31021 C and 37112 are visually similar. They are both excellent runners but personally, I think the 37112 with Faulhaber, and msd3, is a little bit better than the 31021 C with Macon

this link has pictures of the Maxon motor used in the 37115, https://www.3rotaie.it/3r_Recensioni/Recensione050.htm
(same as in my 37112)

Picture of the Maxon motor in my 31021 Württ C, I do notice that the numbers printed on the motor are the same as in the picture of the 37115, 602620 + 286226. The 602620 number is the same number Marklin uses as spare part no. on the Faulhaber's alone in the early Württ C. In the later
http://hovland.net/bilder/mj/501D2815.jpg

Picture of the Maxon motor in my 31021 Württ K (it has a slightly different Maxon number, 286229)
https://hovland.net/bilder/mj/501D2830.jpg

I believe this post, has a picture of a C with Faulhaber
https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/m357274-3614---which-kind-of-motor-is-it#post357274
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Offline Rob11966  
#13 Posted : 20 April 2022 14:31:56(UTC)
Rob11966

Australia   
Joined: 18/04/2022(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
Thanks again to everyone for the generous replies. I appreciate the welcome to the forum. The replies did get me thinking - especially with regards to the variety of motors that Marklin has used in the past, and the potential for these new generation can motors to fail down the track (pun intended) where they are no longer easily available. Perhaps somewhat irrationally, I have just purchased replacement motors for my locomotives. I figure that I can store them with the peace of mind that if/when a motor fails in the future, I will have a drop in replacement.
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Offline Rob11966  
#14 Posted : 18 May 2022 13:44:46(UTC)
Rob11966

Australia   
Joined: 18/04/2022(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
As mentioned in my post above, I ordered spare motors for my locomotives. Marklin posted within 24 hours but parcel delivery from Germany to Australia is very slow at the moment! The motors have now arrived, and interestingly for all of the larger steam engines, the motors were essentially identical, as are the gearboxes. The difference appears to be the size of the gear cog which meshes with the driving chain. The gearboxes are easily removable from the motor and the cogs are metal. Unfortunately, I cannot comment on any other models aside from the ones I have but at least for these, my conclusion is that one replacement motor would suffice, provided the gears were not worn. I now have a few spare motors!!

I have posted a picture of all the motors with a copied picture of the locomotive that they belong to. I hope this is of help to somebody.

Rob

Motors.jpg
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Offline Eurobahnfan  
#15 Posted : 18 May 2022 16:18:29(UTC)
Eurobahnfan

United States   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 352
Location: Stockton, CA
That’s not a bad idea: years ago, when purchasing a new lok, I’d often get some spare traction tires, sliders, and brushes as well. I’ve got more than enough to last well beyond any potential repair and/or replacement tasks, but no spare motors for the relatively few can motor-equipped loks I’ve purchased over the last few years. Might be time to stock up!


Offline bph  
#16 Posted : 19 May 2022 12:43:15(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 522
Thanks for the picture. it's quite useful. ThumpUp

it would be interesting to know the meaning of the HH + 4digit number? could it be the gearbox number?

One the identical motors, some of the flywheels look a bit different? is that correct?

you are probably correct, in assuming that most of the motors are identical, and can be swapped.

but sometimes there are also some differences in flywheel arrangement.

eg in this one with a double flywheel arrangement: (at 5:23)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8hqEE-AENQ&t=322s
Offline Rob11966  
#17 Posted : 19 May 2022 15:53:11(UTC)
Rob11966

Australia   
Joined: 18/04/2022(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the picture. it's quite useful. ThumpUp

it would be interesting to know the meaning of the HH + 4digit number? could it be the gearbox number?

One the identical motors, some of the flywheels look a bit different? is that correct?

you are probably correct, in assuming that most of the motors are identical, and can be swapped.

but sometimes there are also some differences in flywheel arrangement.

eg in this one with a double flywheel arrangement: (at 5:23)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8hqEE-AENQ&t=322s


Hi BPH, yes the flywheel on the HH3519 is a little bit different, but I think that this is probably of no functional significance. There are some other small variations as well - the colour of wires for example. Also, the replacement motor for the 22458 loco is unmarked on both sides (ie no serial numbers) but it is identical to the others in size and shape.
Offline Rob11966  
#18 Posted : 19 May 2022 16:00:01(UTC)
Rob11966

Australia   
Joined: 18/04/2022(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
Sorry, with respect to the HH number, I initially thought it may be the gearbox number but a couple of the gearboxes look almost identical but have different numbers. In the end, I thought it was more likely that the motors had individual numbers associated with their particular locomotive to avoid confusion. It may be that a couple of these motors are entirely interchangeable even though they have different numbers - however that is just a guess - there may be subtle differences that I cannot see. The most obvious one being slight differences in the size of the driving cog.
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