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Offline Pmare4  
#1 Posted : 27 February 2022 08:20:11(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Hi all,

I didn't realise it had been quite so long since I last posted here on the forum - Hornby O gauge has been my main interest for some time now and so I haven't really had a huge amount to do with Marklin recently.

This layout came to me from a local classifieds ad about a week ago, and I have slowly been getting it back into shape. The previous owner drilled a number of extra holes into the base to secure giant light pylons between the two inner tracks in place of ordinary catenary masts - I have since removed these as well as all of the extra wiring underneath. He had severed most of the original wires and instead wired up the house lights and streetlamps to operate in parallel with the track, so that the lights got brighter with the speed of the train.

The layout is absolutely filthy and covered in dust - I have managed to vacuum up most of the loose detritus but the grass looks a lot more brownish than it ought to. I'm not sure if there is a better way to clean the grass at all?

Several of the trees have lost their leaves or come loose from the layout, so I will have to sort these out at one point too. I have heard that hairspray can be used to affix leaves to trees so am contemplating spraying one or two really dodgy ones as a test, to see if it fixes the remaining leaves properly in place. All of the buildings are from Kibri so I would assume that the trees are from Kibri as well?

The layout is wired for automatic operation, but most of the connections have been severed. I will try and rewire this but would like some confirmation as to what I think the sequence of signal changes etc should be.

The layout was originally shipped to Email Ltd, the NZ Marklin Importers in Wellington, after which it was displayed in a hobby shop somewhere in New Zealand for about 1 year (I believe 1976). I was told that this shop was in Wellington but suspect the previous owner was simply reading off the shipping address on the top of the original shipping crate. There is also an address for a place named Bookarama at 271 Queen Street Richmond, which I presume was a bookstore which might have also dealt in model railways, but this has been crossed out in the same green as was used to write the Email Ltd address, which makes me think the layout never actually went there? Either way, the next year, the owner of the shop moved to Brisbane and took the layout with him, where he opened a new hobby shop in which the layout was also displayed. Unfortunately I don't know the name of the shop, but if anyone can remember it at all I'd very much like to know. The man I purchased the layout from acquired it from the son of the hobby shop owner about 4 or 5 years ago, but could no longer remember the details himself.

I have attached a few photos of the layout to the end of the post, showing its condition as-received. I have since stripped off most of the dodgy looking catenary. The streetlamps in the photos are not the originals but were fitted by the last owner - the layout was originally fitted with mostly 7280 and 7281 lamps.

I do need about 12 7524 masts, plus about 10 7525 Cantilever arms in order to complete the catenary should anyone have any for sale. I have about 10 7046 light masts which I would be happy to offer in exchange, otherwise I would be happy to buy them directly.

If anyone has a scan of a dealer catalogue which features this layout I would be very grateful - I think it was made in either 1975 or 76 but am really not sure.

Best regards
Peter

20220225_203933.jpg274507213_1259141584575685_2727611373124809754_n (1).jpg274242880_984292882220366_4368249795408284344_n (1).jpg20220225_223207.jpg20220225_223216.jpg20220225_223210.jpg20220225_203944.jpg20220225_203938.jpg20220225_203952.jpg20220225_203941.jpg
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline Paul187  
#2 Posted : 27 February 2022 08:41:25(UTC)
Paul187

United States   
Joined: 09/11/2021(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: New Jersey
Hello:

Try E-mailing NOCH directly with a pic. They may be able to send you the original track diagram with wiring instructions. info@noch.de

Paul


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Offline kimballthurlow  
#3 Posted : 27 February 2022 09:15:27(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,299
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Pmare4 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all, ....

This layout came to me from a local classifieds ad about a week ago, and I have slowly been getting it back into shape. ..... I think it was made in either 1975 or 76 but am really not sure.

Best regards
Peter


Hello Peter,
That is a nice find and small enough to fit in anywhere.
I hope you have lots of fun getting into shape and operating it.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 27 February 2022 09:29:50(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,409
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Pmare4 Go to Quoted Post
The layout was originally shipped to Email Ltd, the NZ Marklin Importers in Wellington, after which it was displayed in a hobby shop somewhere in New Zealand for about 1 year (I believe 1976). I was told that this shop was in Wellington but suspect the previous owner was simply reading off the shipping address on the top of the original shipping crate.


Email Industries to give them their full name, based in Cable Street in Wellington. My cousin worked for them for a few years and got me my first Marklin set (3122 + 30va transformer) at staff rates. Before that, Email Industies was known as H.W. Clarke. I think they were also agents for Sony and other consumer electronics brands.

By 1976 the only Marklin dealer in Wellington would have been Modelcrafts and Hobbies on the corner of what was then Mercer and Farish Streets. Lamphouse had previously been a Marklin dealer but by my time they were not stocking Marklin items.

Queen Street is the main Street in Richmond which is a suburb of Nelson at the top of NZ's South Island

Originally Posted by: Paul187 Go to Quoted Post
Try E-mailing NOCH directly with a pic.


It's a Marklin factory layout, why would Noch have any details of it?

If Steve Cook doesn't post in this thread, send him a PM ( cookee_nz Offline ) as he will most likely have details of it in his Dealer catalogs

Looking at your first and second last pictures, I've just realised where the term Pukos (to describe the centre stud rail on Marklin H0 track) has come from. I'm guessing it is an abbreviation of the term 'Punktkontakt-System'
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 27 February 2022 12:25:58(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,923
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Paul187 Go to Quoted Post
Try E-mailing NOCH directly with a pic.


It's a Marklin factory layout, why would Noch have any details of it?


Because it appears to be a Noch preform. I imagine it was made by Noch to Marklins specification, I don't see Marklin setting up a vacuum forming unit just to produce a small number of layouts like this.

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Offline bph  
#6 Posted : 27 February 2022 13:06:45(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by: Pmare4 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I didn't realise it had been quite so long since I last posted here on the forum - Hornby O gauge has been my main interest for some time now and so I haven't really had a huge amount to do with Marklin recently.

This layout came to me from a local classifieds ad about a week ago, and I have slowly been getting it back into shape. The previous owner drilled a number of extra holes into the base to secure giant light pylons between the two inner tracks in place of ordinary catenary masts - I have since removed these as well as all of the extra wiring underneath. He had severed most of the original wires and instead wired up the house lights and streetlamps to operate in parallel with the track, so that the lights got brighter with the speed of the train.

I have attached a few photos of the layout to the end of the post, showing its condition as-received. I have since stripped off most of the dodgy looking catenary. The streetlamps in the photos are not the originals but were fitted by the last owner - the layout was originally fitted with mostly 7280 and 7281 lamps.

If anyone has a scan of a dealer catalogue which features this layout I would be very grateful - I think it was made in either 1975 or 76 but am really not sure.

Best regards
Peter


hi
The Märklin layout is based on a Noch layout, and it appeared in the 1977 Noch catalogue as 8063, and in later catalogues as 8163. Not sure what model number your layout is exactly.
you can find old Noch catalogues here:https://www.conradantiquario.info/content/noch-katalogservice.html
and you might be able to expand the layout using the Noch expansion modules.

It's an interesting project so please post pictures of the restoration. Cool

https://www.conradantiquario.info/img/katalog/noch1977/07.jpg
https://www.conradantiquario.info/img/katalog/noch1979/10.jpg

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Offline Pmare4  
#7 Posted : 27 February 2022 13:48:16(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Thank you everyone for the very helpful replies - I'll definitely make sure to update everyone with my progress on the restoration. Hopefully when the layout is completed I'll be able to bring it along to the model train show in Brisbane as an exhibit.

The layout is indeed based on the Noch layout Heimenkirch, but there are several differences in terms of the placement of roads, houses, level crossings and sidings which I think suggests that there were certain differences between the layouts Noch specially prepared for Marklin, and the layouts which Noch released for general sale to the public. I know that my layout has 1976 written on its base so suspect that Noch must have made a special series of layouts just for Marklin in 1976, and then released the layout with a few modifications to the general public the next year.

Email Ltd (their full name being Electricity Meter & Allied Industries Ltd) mainly dealt in the manufacture and importation of whitegoods and water meters, as I understand it they never really intended to distribute Marklin trains but instead had the job thrust on them by chance just after the war. A friend of mine had a sister who worked with them in their offices in the late 60s/early 70s here in Australia, she was able to purchase a small Marklin starter set for her son at discounted rates too.

Looking up Bookarama I came across this photo, which confirms that the shop did deal in model railways, but whether Marklin was among these I have no idea.

http://ketetasman.people...ond-1988?view_size=small

Best regards
Peter
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline marklinist5999  
#8 Posted : 27 February 2022 19:43:18(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,699
Location: Michigan, Troy
I knew someone who had the Noch 80603 and 80604 preform layouts joined together. He ran his trains on 220 volts in the USA. It was M track, but digital. he was from germany, a retired GM-Pontiac tool and die maker/machinist from Germany. His eyesight was aging and he sold it all to a vendor I knew. I wasn't in a position to buy it then.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#9 Posted : 27 February 2022 23:42:04(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,409
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Pmare4 Go to Quoted Post
.......as I understand it they never really intended to distribute Marklin trains but instead had the job thrust on them by chance just after the war.


I'm not sure how accurate this is. As I previously said Email Industries was preceded by H.W. Clarke, who were the Marklin distributors in NZ for many years. They were based in Cable Street (see picture - dated 1940)

Capture.JPG

H. W. Clarke was succeeded by Email Industries sometime in the 1970's and the division that handled the Marklin distributorship was handled by Hank Edwards who was known to many of our older Marklin Club members. Hank previously worked for H.W. Clarke. I'm sure Cookee knows more of that history than myself - Cookee posts a bit more here - https://www.marklin-user...cularly-NZ-and-Australia

I see references on the net that suggest Email also distributed Marklin in Australia, is this correct? Perhaps your comments are in reference to Email Australia?
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Offline Pmare4  
#10 Posted : 28 February 2022 00:42:44(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Pmare4 Go to Quoted Post
.......as I understand it they never really intended to distribute Marklin trains but instead had the job thrust on them by chance just after the war.


I'm not sure how accurate this is. As I previously said Email Industries was preceded by H.W. Clarke, who were the Marklin distributors in NZ for many years. They were based in Cable Street (see picture - dated 1940)

H. W. Clarke was succeeded by Email Industries sometime in the 1970's and the division that handled the Marklin distributorship was handled by Hank Edwards who was known to many of our older Marklin Club members.

I see references on the net that suggest Email also distributed Marklin in Australia, is this correct? Perhaps your comments are in reference to Email Australia?


Yes, I was thinking of Email Australia - I had assumed that Email NZ operated at the same times and did not realise they had taken over so much later.

My understanding was that Email Australia would purchase huge quantities of spare parts directly from Germany including heaps of fairly useless things like loco bodies and frames, but they hardly used any of them and they simply sat on shelves until they stopped dealing in Marklin and were somehow disposed of.

Early advertisements from around 1950 reference James Balfour & Co Pty Ltd as being the unit of Email responsible for Marklin sales. I understand that James Balfour & Co were also the Australian agents for Formica, amongst other things, so I would assume that Email took them over in order to be able to distribute some of the other products which they imported, not Marklin trains!

Email Australia got out of distributing Marklin at some point in the mid 70s, after which Austral Modelcraft took over.



Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline Pmare4  
#11 Posted : 28 February 2022 08:24:07(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
I have just had a look at the signals, points and contact rails and thankfully most of them seem to work without any trouble.

All of the points work fine except for one, which has a burnt out solenoid - I will have to replace this eventually but it isn't something I'm really worried about just yet.

The signals all work, but most of their bulbs are blown, and one of the light covers (part 412050) on a 7239 signal is missing.

The contact rails are the real problem, as two of the 2199 straight contact rails have horribly mangled contact fingers. I had a look on Ebay and the cheapest pair I can find will cost me about $70 including shipping from Germany, which is a bit too expensive really.

I would be interested in two 2199 rails, should anyone here on the forum have any for sale. I'd also be interested in 12 7524 masts, plus about 10 7525 Cantilever arms so that I can complete the catenary.

Best regards
Peter
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline cookee_nz  
#12 Posted : 03 March 2022 10:18:04(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Hi Peter, sorry for my late entry into this discussion, normally I'd be over it like a rash but we have a Covid case in the house confirmed since Monday so are all in isolation. I took the chance to do some long-overdue tasks and have not had much time on the PC.

Welcome to the fascinating world of factory Layouts. It's addictive.

I do believe the 0949 Shop Window layout was available 1976 only, which as luck would have it is one of the mid-70's dealer catalogues I'm missing. It's not in the 1975 catalogue, however layout # 0947 is in there. It's not in the 1977 catalogue either, from then the K-track layouts became 06xx so I'm as confident as can be it would be found in the '76 catalogue Schaufensteranlagen, or, "Shop Window Layouts".

The layout numbers tended to increment each year, some were available more than one year, some were that year only.

How the layout came to end up in Oz is a mystery, but quite possibly it was an 'internal' transfer within EMAIL. Interestingly, I have reference to Email being "Electric Metering and Instruments Ltd" but who's to know if they didn't maybe have a slight change, or my own notes are incorrect. I can't find the source reference for mine but I should have it noted somewhere.

Email were definitely Märkin Agents in Oz for some of the 70's, I have Australian price lists from 1976 & 1977 bearing their details.

Email NZ ended their relationship with Märklin in the early 1980's and as Dave has mentioned, the Email NZ agency manager Hank Edwards took over the agency from late 1982 or early 1983 so it does seem they were running the agency (including Faller and some others) in both countries for probably about the same period of time.

Hope this sheds a little light on it and you can be sure the missing catalogue is definitely on my radar, they are very hard to track down as you might imagine.

Cheers

Steve







Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Pmare4  
#13 Posted : 03 March 2022 11:09:58(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Hi Cookee,

Thank you so much for that - glad to have some confirmation on the date!

I think I am right in saying that the layout was originally intended to be used with a particular set of locos/wagons/coaches, at least this was the case during the 1960s.

The chap who sold me the layout said that when he bought it, it came with a 3027 loco, a KLVM, and a blue DHG diesel. I did end up buying the 3027 off of him but left the other two behind as they were fairly shabby. I don't believe that any of those locos were original to the layout though as they were all several years out in terms of their date.

I was told that the dealer who initially purchased the layout in 1976 moved to Brisbane the following year, and took the layout with him to display in his new Brisbane store, which presumably explains how it ended up in Oz.

Attached are photos of two stickers which were stuck to the underside of the layout - I'm not entirely sure with regards to their meaning but think that the yellow sticker states that this layout is the 14th 0949 layout built?

The white sticker is a bit more confusing. The top row seems to read "dat: 9/76" which I presume stands for "Datum" (Date) September 1976. The next row is titled "nag" but has nothing next to it, I'm not sure what it could mean. The next row is "spr" which might be short for Spurweite (gauge) but again the next column is not filled out. The final row is titled "gra" and has the initials MM beside it - I suppose these could be someone's initials, perhaps from when the layout was tested before being shipped out? I'm not really sure.

Best regards

Peter

20220303_194205.jpg

20220303_194515.jpg
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline cookee_nz  
#14 Posted : 03 March 2022 23:20:28(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Hi Peter,

Those labels are interesting. The earlier layouts fully built by Märklin also have various inscriptions underneath including what appears to be a sequence number but these are written in pencil directly onto the timber.

With the Noch-based layouts it's not quite as clear. Part of me wants to think that Märklin took the basic pre-form and finished it themselves, but it's also entirely possible that Noch delivered them mostly complete for Märklin to add finishing touches.

There's a thread I follow on the German Forum Alte-Modelbahnen where factory layouts specifically are discussed. It's been a bit quiet of late but there is some helpful information to be found there. Both Chrome and Edge offer translation on the fly so they are mostly easy to read and follow;

https://www.altemodellba...ranlagen-Ergaenzung.html

https://www.altemodellba...gen-INDEX.html#msg400052 - this thread is just an Index of all the layouts, a couple of people got their noses out of joint wondering what was a the point of a list of numbers and dates with no images, but they completely missed the point of cross-referencing to the other thread with pictures.

The Index was simply a way to summarise the info as a quick reference. I note that 0949 has not yet been listed there but it's not regularly updated.

Mind if I steal your photos?
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Pmare4  
#15 Posted : 04 March 2022 01:24:18(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Hi Cookee,

Of course I don't mind - steal away!

I was thinking of attempting to post there myself but then realised that it would take too much effort and I would have to relearn all of my schoolboy German, which I'm afraid I've mostly forgotten.

Best regards
Peter
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline cookee_nz  
#16 Posted : 04 March 2022 22:26:56(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Pmare4 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Cookee,

Of course I don't mind - steal away!

I was thinking of attempting to post there myself but then realised that it would take too much effort and I would have to relearn all of my schoolboy German, which I'm afraid I've mostly forgotten.

Best regards
Peter


Actually Peter, I'd encourage you to post there.

For one thing, you might just get the information you are looking for, an image of the layout as shown in the dealer catalogue (which I'd also quite like).

Secondly, it may spark some fresh discussion on factory layouts in general which would be awesome.

There are a number of members there with a good understanding of English and you certainly would not be the first. It's arguable whether it's preferable to post in your own native tongue and keep confusion to a minimum, or do a courtesy translation yourself to capture a wider audience.

Personally, when I post I use google translate and sometimes deepl also for comparison. What I do is write my draft post, and keep it a simple as possible, ie common words except where unavoidable, and avoid idioms. Then I run the translation in reverse, ie German back to English and see how it reads. With a little tinkering you can usually get it nearly identical both ways. Either way, I post both versions as my message. German first (prefaced with a comment it is a translation), and then I follow with the original English.

But, if you think your schoolboy German will help, go for it!

I know it seems a bit of a palava but the end justifies the means!! BigGrin

But most importantly, they are very sensitive to introductions so an initial posting into the "Member Introduction" area will reflect well on you. There are some really friendly and welcoming people there.

Happy to help any way I can

Cheers
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Pmare4  
#17 Posted : 05 March 2022 12:16:37(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Thank you for the pointers Steve!

I've attempted to post an introduction so will see how things turn out. Perhaps someone there will have a few scans of the 76 dealer catalogue for me if I ask nicely enough.

I have done a little more work on the layout, and have managed to redo most of the catenary (the middle two tracks should have catenary but I am missing the right masts) and clean up the scenery a bit.

Some of the trees fell down and will need to be resecured back to the board when I get the chance.

20220303_193933.jpg
20220228_192813.jpg
20220303_193939.jpg
20220303_193945.jpg
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#18 Posted : 05 March 2022 16:27:07(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,923
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I hadn't noticed in your previous photos that it has a Noch label on the front edge.


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Offline cookee_nz  
#19 Posted : 05 March 2022 21:34:53(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Well done Peter, I've responded to your posting.

I didn't realise how young you are. Just a baby, well, to a 65-year old fart like me anyway :-)

Your 'schoolboy' German has gone down well there, and I can see why, it is still relatively fresh for you.

I wish I'd had the chance to learn German at College, I did take French but my heart wasn't in it and I clowned around too much, didn't learn (or retain) a thing.

Posting photos on FAM is a bit hit and miss. The 800 x 600 requirement is unavoidable, and personally I find the forum software a bit kludgy, well compared to here anyway, but I know there are also those who struggle with posting photos here so I'm well tolerant of that.

Good start anyway, once you post and include the layout number, approx. year and photos you might strike gold.

There are a few there into Hornby as well so you've nailed two interest areas - bonus !
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#20 Posted : 07 March 2022 04:46:37(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
I noted your comment Peter that you think yours may be the only surviving one left in Oz, and that may well be so. I've posted on the FAM about my own experience when I found mine in Sydney back in 2011. It's a little earlier than yours, from 1972 but I've had a heap of fun with it and have displayed it a couple of times here with our club. We also have two factory layouts in the clubrooms, and I know of at least two others around NZ, and always the hope of more.

I nearly didn't bring it back but my wife (Nadine) insisted (bless her). In hindsight, I think I'd now be gutted had I left it behind, knowing the interest I've since developed for this lesser-known side of Marklin.

I have tried many times to find out any history on it, unfortunately the Gent I bought it from didn't know himself, he'd had it for many years before me. Consensus is that it was most likely with a retailer in Sydney, and there weren't THAT many, or, if it was owned by EMAIL, perhaps it did the rounds across several stores, who knows.

I've discussed it with the guys from the Sydney Marklin Club but none recall it. Hardly surprising, it was getting up to 50 years ago. I'll have to throw it a 50th birthday !!

I see Bodo responded to you, he's like pretty much THE guru when it comes to discussions like this, and he clearly has the dealer catalogue but no image forthcoming.

When our club went to the IMA in 2019 I actually met Bodo briefly at the Historic Toys stand but it wasn't until after that I realised who he was. Lost opportunity for sure. I think his English is minimal, otherwise I could have talked with him endlessly.

I'll be interested to see how my response goes down. For a very long time they were extremely sensitive about images from ANY copyright material, especially Märklin but I understand the site owner Heinz-Dieter Papenberg spoke personally with Florian Sieber and obtained permission to host and allow historical document images on his site.

I've added a page from the 1972 "Shop Window Layouts" catalogue and also a page from the original factory plans (the "holy grail" reference) and will watch if any protocols have been transgressed. You can be sure I'll hear about it if so!

https://www.altemodellba...nlagen-24.html#msg630215

Edited by user 18 May 2022 21:50:32(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Pmare4  
#21 Posted : 07 March 2022 06:01:34(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Hi Cookee,

It really wouldn't surprise me if mine was the only one left - I can't imagine that all that many would have made it here in the first place.

The chap who sold me the layout said that he bought it as he remembered seeing a Marklin display layout as a child at Toyman Imports in Yennora, NSW.

The only Marklin display layout I have ever heard of in Queensland was located in a hobby shop in Southport, at some point in the late 1970s / early 1980s. Whether it was an actual layout produced by Marklin or not I have no idea, as the person who told me about the layout never actually got to see it in person.

I'd love to see some photos of the other layouts you have seen in New Zealand, if it isn't too much to ask.

Bodo was extraordinarily helpful - a scan would have been nice, but not essential by any means. I'm really just happy to finally have some confirmation about its date!

That page from the 0380 book really was brilliant, as it seems to show all of the correct trains for the layout.

Best regards
Peter

Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline cookee_nz  
#22 Posted : 07 March 2022 12:14:08(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Pmare4 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Cookee,

It really wouldn't surprise me if mine was the only one left - I can't imagine that all that many would have made it here in the first place.

The chap who sold me the layout said that he bought it as he remembered seeing a Marklin display layout as a child at Toyman Imports in Yennora, NSW.

The only Marklin display layout I have ever heard of in Queensland was located in a hobby shop in Southport, at some point in the late 1970s / early 1980s. Whether it was an actual layout produced by Marklin or not I have no idea, as the person who told me about the layout never actually got to see it in person.

I'd love to see some photos of the other layouts you have seen in New Zealand, if it isn't too much to ask.

Bodo was extraordinarily helpful - a scan would have been nice, but not essential by any means. I'm really just happy to finally have some confirmation about its date!

That page from the 0380 book really was brilliant, as it seems to show all of the correct trains for the layout.

Best regards
Peter



Well, hopefully with this chat, other members (existing or yet to come) may add their own knowledge to the mix. I've already contacted all my known Aussie contacts to ask in the past but sometimes it just takes something to jog a memory or recall a newspaper article featuring a model display maybe around Christmas time etc.

As for other layouts, as I mentioned we have two in our club.

One is M-track, from 1976, reference 0542. It's enclosed in quite a robust perspex display cabinet which was most likely a local creation. Our nickname for it is 'Kleinbahn'.

0542-1.jpg

0542-2.jpg

0542-7.jpg

0542-4.JPG

0542-8.jpg

Like all factory layouts of this style, it features the neat straight cable runs underneath, something not common to the pre-form Noch or Kibri versions due to the open framework underneath.

Unfortunately I don't yet have a catalogue photo for it, because it's also from our elusive 1976 Shop Window Displays. !! Blink

The next one in a following post
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#23 Posted : 07 March 2022 12:17:26(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Next is our other one, ref 0917, a K-track layout from 1971. We call this 'Black Forest'.

It was used for several years as a demonstration layout for automated computer control via Digital so it's no longer original. It retains the original track plan but was relaid in 22xx series track and rewired (or de-wired actually) to showcase the supposed advantages of minimal wiring.

MMRC-0917-2020Dec - Copy.jpg

1971 cover & 0917 001.jpg

As it turns out, there are actually two of these layouts in NZ, the other is with a private owner in Auckland.

Here's a photo of part of it, which shows quite a lot of added detail. Sorry for the poor quality, it was taken many many years ago.

The current owner is a member here and may opt to post some better images if he wishes

maurice2.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#24 Posted : 07 March 2022 12:32:20(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
And finally, another K-track layout, this one a bit more interesting in my personal opinion.

A friend of mine owned it for a time, then sold it, and it's since changed hands again. I attempted to contact the middle owner (to find the end-buyer) but no response so I have no idea where it is now, but suspect it 'may' be down in Christchurch.

It's layout number 0676 from 1980 and is a Kibri collaboration but I don't think it's a pre-form, so Kibri may simply refer to the decoration kits.

Layout front 1a.jpg

Layout front 2a.jpg

0676 -1980 Verkaufsforderung-5.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#25 Posted : 07 March 2022 12:47:42(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Lol, here's a laugh for you. It was nagging me I'd seen something similar to that layout of yours before.

Our Club President Ian has a thing for getting kids involved with trains at the shows. He has two layouts that are especially set up for kids to play with, drive trains, do their worst (and sometimes they do)

Anyway some time ago he was offered a layout except it was 2-rail, didn't bother him in the slightest..... look familiar? (not a factory layout but a bit of a passing resemblance) BigGrin

20210418_152631b.jpg

Noch 81620 Altmuhl.jpg

20210418_152545b.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Pmare4  
#26 Posted : 07 March 2022 12:55:53(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Thank you very much for those photos Steve.

"Kleinbahn" and 0676 really are both superb - the other two might need a bit of work to get them back to how they were originally!

I do have a photo of a layout near-identical to layout 0917, and in all original condition, but with M tracks fitted rather than K tracks and what appear to be different buildings. I don't have permission to publish the photo on the forum but would be happy to send it to you privately.


Best regards
Peter
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline Pmare4  
#27 Posted : 07 March 2022 13:00:03(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Lol, here's a laugh for you. It was nagging me I'd seen something similar to that layout of yours before.

Our Club President Ian has a thing for getting kids involved with trains at the shows. He has two layouts that are especially set up for kids to play with, drive trains, do their worst (and sometimes they do)

Anyway some time ago he was offered a layout..... look familiar? (bit of a passing resemblance)


Definitely a few similarities there! I think the only difference is the tunnel on the top left, which seems to have disappeared on the later layout you have.

I've been enjoying playing around with my layout although the lack of any kind of sidings does make it a bit boring.

Rest assured I won't start ripping up the original houses and grass to change the track plan though - that would be a real travesty!
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#28 Posted : 14 May 2022 21:47:55(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,923
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Saw this 0927 factory layout on ebay UK this weekend.

K track layout with overhead catenary, no locos, rolling stock, or transformers.

At starting bid of £350 (and it has a reserve) I think it is a bit expensive, even with the factory shipping container.

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#29 Posted : 15 May 2022 05:15:59(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,409
Location: New Zealand
I think Cookee's pictures of Kleinbahn are ones I took some time ago.

Note the spider in the last one.....

Screenshot 2022-05-15 151447.JPG
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Offline cookee_nz  
#30 Posted : 16 May 2022 10:30:20(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
I think Cookee's pictures of Kleinbahn are ones I took some time ago.

Note the spider in the last one.....



No doubt the same, I simply had the photo's in either my club photos folder or my Display Layouts folder but no apparent note at the time of the original source.

I try wherever possible to note where any images first came from but didn't have any details about the club ones.

Cheers
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#31 Posted : 16 May 2022 10:39:28(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Saw this 0927 factory layout on ebay UK this weekend.

K track layout with overhead catenary, no locos, rolling stock, or transformers.

At starting bid of £350 (and it has a reserve) I think it is a bit expensive, even with the factory shipping container.



Looks like seller must have reduced the starting bid, it's showing for me at GBP 200 and no bids but due to close soon.

You couldn't build even a replica for the asking so I think the reduced starting price is more realistic, and bearing in mind it's factory original (likely Noch) has some appeal to certain enthusiasts.

Pity the images are so small




Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#32 Posted : 16 May 2022 13:43:15(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,923
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Saw this 0927 factory layout on ebay UK this weekend.

K track layout with overhead catenary, no locos, rolling stock, or transformers.

At starting bid of £350 (and it has a reserve) I think it is a bit expensive, even with the factory shipping container.



Looks like seller must have reduced the starting bid, it's showing for me at GBP 200 and no bids but due to close soon.


Yes he has reduced it, it closed without selling, and has relisted at £200.

Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post

You couldn't build even a replica for the asking so I think the reduced starting price is more realistic, and bearing in mind it's factory original (likely Noch) has some appeal to certain enthusiasts.


I could be tempted it, but don't have any room to store it Blushing Crying Scared

Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post

Pity the images are so small


Yes, at they don't hover to zoom either.

Offline Pmare4  
#33 Posted : 18 May 2022 06:41:13(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
I think the price is a tremendous bargain, given the rarity of the layout and its superb original condition - if only I lived in the UK!

I paid about $1350 for my layout, which was probably a bit more than it was really worth, but I had always wanted one and figured the chances of another ever coming up for sale locally were incredibly slim.

Best regards
Peter
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline Mman  
#34 Posted : 22 May 2022 10:49:42(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 219
Location: England, Guildford
Gaugemaster in Sussex England used to be the importers for Märklin in the UK and they had a large factory built Märklin H0 K track layout with some automation. In their current fortnightly newsletter they describe how they used to take it to shows but at some point decided to ‘Anglicise’ it and convert it to two rail running (still keeping the K track). Apparently British Outline 00 scale stock doesn’t like the 360mm radius curves so the article moots further modification to the track and tunnels to accommodate it.
From my point of view a great pity that they have butchered the layout but from theirs I suppose it makes sense since they probably sell far more 00 than continental H0 - and Märklin did dump them in favour of the then LGB importer after the takeover. This was another great pity since the new importer didn’t seem the slightest bit interested in promoting Märklin in the UK.
ChrisG
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