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Offline drmusix  
#1 Posted : 10 February 2022 15:44:21(UTC)
drmusix

Germany   
Joined: 16/03/2020(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Bayern, Kaufbeuren
Hi everybody, may I ask another question regarding this vintage wonder: A dream has come true and I could finally buy a post-war TW 800 N with two motors, one of which is not running when powered. Does anyone here have a wiring diagram for this special version? How are these two motors supposed to be connected? It's very clean, no stuck parts in the motor, no obvious missing cables, no zincpest. Lights are working, switch is working, one motor's running fine. The pantos are later ones and will be replaced by Type 4 ones!
A link to an original parts list (not Ritter or TTN) and a copy of the manual would be very helpful! Thanks in advance-
Wolfgang.

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 10 February 2022 23:38:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,856
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: drmusix Go to Quoted Post

A link to an original parts list (not Ritter or TTN) and a copy of the manual would be very helpful! Thanks in advance-
Wolfgang.


I'll try and remember to look through the manual I have to see if it has a list for this model.

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Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 11 February 2022 00:02:09(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,081
Location: Paris, France
to Hi Wolfgang
Whaoo, I envy you.
The 2 motors are simply connected in parallel and it follows the traditional Märklin wiring with a Perfekt relay from the early 1946 to late 1948

The relay distributes ground to either one of the inductor's 2 coils. The other end of both coils go to the brush holder nearest to the inductor.
The other brushholder goes to the center rail spoons or to the pantographs via an SPDT switch.

If one of the motors does not rotate:
- check for free rotation: you remove the brushes, inspect / replace them if needed. Then rotate gently the wheels. If the motor is stuck check for hardened oil or Zinkpest
- check for good conduction from brushes: use a cotton swab on which you remove most of the cotton. Then, insert in the brush holder and clean the inside
- check for cut / broken wires

In case you need spare parts here is one good shop https://ritter-restaurat.../rail-cars-800/tw-800-en
But you know it already I think.

I am sure you'l make this beauty work
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
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Offline drmusix  
#4 Posted : 11 February 2022 09:26:16(UTC)
drmusix

Germany   
Joined: 16/03/2020(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Bayern, Kaufbeuren
Thank you Jean, your help is always appreciated
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
The other brushholder goes to the center rail spoons or to the pantographs via an SPDT switch.

Only one central rail spoon (underneath the working motor), but I think that would have been an option as I've seen pics of 2-motor TWs with one and with two spoons, so I guess this would have been a question of different internal wiring? Hence my question re. wiring diagram.
The non-working motor is clean, brushes intact (the whole railcar had been maintained carefully by the previous owner who used to play with his toys all the time ;-)
The wheels can be turned by hand, nothing stuck.
I'll report back when I receive some spare parts from Ritter and will do some detailed photos from the inside.
Cheers,
Wolfgang


Offline drmusix  
#5 Posted : 11 February 2022 09:34:52(UTC)
drmusix

Germany   
Joined: 16/03/2020(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Bayern, Kaufbeuren
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Here are the first pics, will do more when I get back to work on it. Hopefully there's an obvious reason (missing cable or whatever) you see at once but I just can't put my finger on it Sad
As I wrote the first thing which came to mind was the "missing" central rail "shoe" underneath motor no.2 but there are several pics online with similar versions (2 !! motors) which only have one shoe.
Wolfgang
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 11 February 2022 17:01:46(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,081
Location: Paris, France
Hi Wolfgang
I checked again on my Märklin 1947 catalogue, on page 5, there is a pink slipper describing the 2 motors TW800 N with a current feed through the overhead line or the center rail. So there was a switch and the spoon (1 or 2 it does not say). This means both left hand brush holders are connected together and - if the overhead switch has been removed - both left brush holders are connected to the spoon. My Koll's (1993) is not precise on the current pick-up except spoon.
Because the motors are installed in a symmetrical way then, for them to rotate in the same direction (and not fight against each other), the coils wiring are "crossed" between the 2 motors and connected to the Perfekt relais. Just me suspecting.

The TWE 800 N in red with 2 motors has only been made in 1949 with pantographe type 5 (large with a copper sleeve like yours). Before (1939 to 1946) it was pink / beige (Violett / Elfenbein), only one motor and pantograph 2.2 (fixed lower legs and height extender screwed on the current pick-up sleeve).

So just check that both motors are connected to the spoon.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
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Offline drmusix  
#7 Posted : 11 February 2022 17:12:14(UTC)
drmusix

Germany   
Joined: 16/03/2020(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Bayern, Kaufbeuren
Thanks Jean, there will probably be a easy solution, probably a torn cable connection. I'll post some pics when I'll open it tomorrow as I just received some spare sparts from Ritter. The correct pantographs would be Type 4.1 which I got from them (Type 5 were used from 1950 to '54) as you can see in the cat. picture. The spoon was also changed by the previous owner to enable running on modern track.

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Cheers,
Wolfgang.

Offline drmusix  
#8 Posted : 12 February 2022 12:55:23(UTC)
drmusix

Germany   
Joined: 16/03/2020(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Bayern, Kaufbeuren
Update: after getting the spare parts from Ritter, I mounted the missing headlight glasses and "Märklin" sign, then changed the brushes and cleaned the motor once again: and now it's running! So the fault was the obvious as @JohnjeanB had pointed out in ok-looking but dirty/worn brushes.

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So thank you again, Jean @JohnjeanB - and @kiwiAlan if you manage to find a copy of the manual I'd be grateful for a link or a .pdf.
Cheers, I'm off to play now Love
Wolfgang.
Offline drmusix  
#9 Posted : 12 February 2022 15:46:25(UTC)
drmusix

Germany   
Joined: 16/03/2020(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Bayern, Kaufbeuren
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