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Offline Snowfun  
#1 Posted : 30 December 2021 09:08:30(UTC)
Snowfun

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/10/2021(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: The Highlands
Hi,
Can anyone provide some advice about the track power supply please?
Is it necessary to use the (not cheap!) 8590 track piece (as opposed to simply soldering the power wire to the track directly)? Presumably the more power connections to the track the better? How many might reasonably be recommended on, say, a loop of 5m?
On a not totally unrelated issue, is it possible to get a crossover in which one track direction is isolated from the other? So, for example, the crossover enables two independent loops to overlap.
Thanks.
Tim
Offline Carim  
#2 Posted : 30 December 2021 10:29:29(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: London
Hi Tim,

Yes, you can solder power wires directly to the rails. If you are not creating blocks per se, a connection every 100 - 150cm should be fine.

For the crossover, just have an air gap or insulated joiners between the two points - then both circuits are physically joined but electrically separate.

Carim
Offline Snowfun  
#3 Posted : 30 December 2021 15:21:42(UTC)
Snowfun

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/10/2021(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: The Highlands
Thanks.
I made an error using the term “crossover”. Apologies. I meant a “crossing” as in track item 8559. Imagine 2 independent (electrically isolated and entirely separate) ovals of track one of which overlaps the other. Thus requiring two crossings in the physical form of 8559.
8559s wouldn’t do this because - if I understand it correctly - the two “routes” are electrically connected. I need a crossing in which route 1 (let’s say straight across) is electrically separated from route 2 (ie the -13 and +13 degree tracks). Does such a thing exist (in one of the other manufacturers?) or would I need to home build?
Good to hear that the power wires can be soldered directly to the rail - I’ll incorporate copper wire under the board with feeders at regular intervals.
Tim
Offline Carim  
#4 Posted : 30 December 2021 16:59:24(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: London
Sorry but I don't have an 8559 crossing, so I don't know how that is wired. I know that both routes are electrically connected on the double slip but I would think it strange if they were on a crossing. Do you have a multimeter to check?

Carim
Offline Mman  
#5 Posted : 30 December 2021 17:47:07(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
307D1E23-89BC-4067-A10D-12492C23A382.jpegE69597DE-788D-4CDC-B3CA-B66FC20D2F97.jpegI have carefully examined my 8559 diamond crossing and compared it with a double slip and as Carim states with the double slip the same applies to the diamond - all routes are electrically connected so, no, it wouldn’t work as you had hoped.
I don’t have any other makes of diamond to know whether insulating ones exist.
Märklin points are not isolating either, but Rokuhan ones can be made to be by removing links, whether their diamond can be so adapted I don’t know.
There is anAmerican manufacturer of Z track I believe.

Anything is possible though, by isolating each of the four ends of the diamond and feeding it from either circuit via a universal relay for example, triggered by circuit tracks activated by approaching trains you could do what you want.

Regarding feeds other than 8590 items, I recently bought a large quantity of used Märklin Z track and with it came several fishplates to which wires had been soldered, this would eliminate the risk of melting the plastic track parts when soldering to the rails directly.
ChrisG
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mman
Offline Mman  
#6 Posted : 30 December 2021 18:11:48(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
A206F6F4-6852-4864-A04D-F889FDF2616E.jpegWhat I do have, however, is a Rokuhan scissors crossover incorporating a diamond and as you can see it is completely different to the Märklin type. This is one which isolates the two routes. I don’t have a separate Rokuhan diamond to examine.
ChrisG
Offline Mman  
#7 Posted : 30 December 2021 18:29:38(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
7B901FA9-E41C-4F39-A1EF-5835CEF37431.jpegHad a look at MTL Z track online and they don’t shew a diamond or slip, also looked at Rokuhan and their 13 degree diamonds and slips are constructed in the same way as Märklin ones but they do have a 90 degree crossing which may have possibilities.
ChrisG
Offline Mman  
#8 Posted : 30 December 2021 20:49:50(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
AF153D50-82CA-4A72-83AC-A2E6312F188A.jpeg9EFA37AD-CAB3-4854-9437-0A3B0B2CA15E.jpegThe instructions for the Rokuhan slip suggests power routing is possible, the instructions for the diamond don’t mention it.
ChrisG
Offline Donb  
#9 Posted : 30 December 2021 21:00:25(UTC)
Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 288
Location: Fraser Valley
Originally Posted by: Snowfun Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
Can anyone provide some advice about the track power supply please?
Is it necessary to use the (not cheap!) 8590 track piece (as opposed to simply soldering the power wire to the track directly)? Presumably the more power connections to the track the better? How many might reasonably be recommended on, say, a loop of 5m?
On a not totally unrelated issue, is it possible to get a crossover in which one track direction is isolated from the other? So, for example, the crossover enables two independent loops to overlap.
Thanks.
Tim


Hi,

heres some prewired fishplates on eBay you might be interested in,

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/203252069480



Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
CS3, ( Commander is now retired) , C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
Offline Snowfun  
#10 Posted : 30 December 2021 21:43:42(UTC)
Snowfun

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/10/2021(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: The Highlands
Lots of useful info!
I had a quick look too at the picture of an Atlas 19 degree crossing (2813) - it appears to be a possibility. Worth getting one to try. My issue then is to match it to the Marklin track. Possibly nothing a file can’t handle…
I’ll also get a Rokuhan slip to try out.
Nothing is built yet so I’m exploring all the possibilities and options to fine tune the layout.
Tim
Offline Toosmall  
#11 Posted : 30 December 2021 23:45:49(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 608
Location: Sydney
The nickel rail has about 4 time the resistance of copper. So I solder about every 2 metres when using 660mm track sections which I mostly use, or solder where convenient. No point using the power feed rails, they are ugly apart from the expense and usually in the way of other scenery.

I also solder a thin bit of wire to the track and then a thicker section on the end of that and heat shrink the joint.

For getting block sections to work, DPDT 2amp relays are the go and I plug them in to circuit board CPU seats so they are not directly soldered in, easy to swap. If a relay fails it is easy to unplug and plug in a new spare relay. Easy, cheap, quick to replace.

The second side of the DPDT relay can feed LEDs on your control board to show you powered and unpowered or directional sections.

Use a black marker pen to camoflauge the solder.

IMG_65384.jpg

IMG_1468_091830.jpg
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Toosmall
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