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Offline Mman  
#1 Posted : 10 November 2021 11:17:42(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
Recently I rediscovered my copy of ‘Märklin-Bahn und ihr grosses vorbild’, an A5 landscape format book with which I spent many an hour accompanied by a German English dictionary. As a career railwayman I was fascinated by how the German railways ran, especially in the 1950s my favoured era.
A lot later I managed to buy an English Language version of the book, ‘ Märklin miniature railway and its big prototype’ and was able to dispense with the dictionary.
Amongst the many photos of prototypes in the book is one of a large terminus station but where is it? Does anyone recognise the site? What I couldn’t see on the huge site was a loco depôt, were they kept away from the city on a different site? Not unknown here in the UK eg Exmouth Junction MPD is/was miles from Exeter Central.
ChrisG
5F7A4BBD-7BCF-44F9-BB45-1EAF1F2F64EE.jpeg5B57905A-9153-43A1-92B8-D5755B37E059.jpeg03A9A35B-4ACD-48CA-A536-60F3C8194B3C.jpeg
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 10 November 2021 11:32:42(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
That's Stuttgart Hbf.

Link to Map that includes train depot:
https://goo.gl/maps/f1LE9FA6CwLf6cxt5
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Mman  
#3 Posted : 10 November 2021 12:14:18(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
E1DDF32E-3FE7-40DC-B8A6-2BBB52727263.jpegThank you Tom, the map also tells me where the freight yard / train depôt is that also appears in the book.
ChrisG
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Offline hxmiesa  
#4 Posted : 10 November 2021 13:18:16(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Wolfgang Frey R.I.P.
(Sorry for the -mostly- off topic)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline IanC  
#5 Posted : 10 November 2021 13:30:23(UTC)
IanC

United Kingdom   
Joined: 05/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Bedford
Stuttgart would be the nearest huge station to Marklin's home town of Goppingen and it is distinctive and identifiable from the first photo. It is being extensively rebuilt at present to become a through station as the S21 project. Because of the physical constraints of the site, and the local topology, the freight and train yards are stretched out between the main S HBF and Plochingen via Bad Cannstatt. There's a great N scale model of Stuttgart HBF at Stellwerk S in nearby Herrenberg. www.stellwerk-s.de

IanC
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Offline Mman  
#6 Posted : 10 November 2021 15:30:17(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
Bearing in mind that the book from which these photos were taken was printed in 1953 I would have expected that 65 years later there would be a much smaller station and train depôt today. Certainly here stations and yards have shrunk since the early 1960s but can’t see much change in Stuttgart judging by the Google satellite pictures.
For someone like me with a keen interest in all aspects of railways the book is fascinating and shows how far ahead of this country Germany was - relatively recent innovations here such as transporting complete switches/points/turnouts at an angle on flatcars and TPWS (train protection warning system) which seems a lot like Indusi both existed half a century earlier on DB.
ChrisG
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 10 November 2021 15:58:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post
For someone like me with a keen interest in all aspects of railways the book is fascinating and shows how far ahead of this country Germany was - relatively recent innovations here such as transporting complete switches/points/turnouts at an angle on flatcars and TPWS (train protection warning system) which seems a lot like Indusi both existed half a century earlier on DB.
INDUSI existed earlier than the DB. Trials started in 1927 and it went into use in 1934. TPWS tests started in 1997.
I remember an accident on a branch line in 2011 where INDUSI had not yet been installed. No point that INDUSI was invented more than 50 years earlier.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Mman  
#8 Posted : 10 November 2021 17:05:25(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
And TPWS didn’t prevent the very recent collision at Salisbury, one train slid on contaminated rails into another at a converging junction. No flank protection!
ChrisG
Offline kimballthurlow  
#9 Posted : 10 November 2021 21:45:54(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hello Chris,
I too have those two booklets and I agree they are a pleasurable way of understanding the German railway operations.
The Märklin company shows a lot of class in many aspects other than model manufacure.
Unfortunately I have not studied the Indusi system nor the later forms of UK traffic control.

But there were very early forms of train control as indicated here.
A form of mechanical brake control was fitted to locomotives and track on the Great Central Railway UK as early as 1915.
It was patented as Reliostop, and was a simple addition to the mechanical signal apparatus.
A series of audible siren warnings and partial brake application after the distant signal ended with an irrevocable full brake application at the home signal.
(Source: Great Central, George Dow, Vol 3, Locomotive Publ Co. 1965)

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline cookee_nz  
#10 Posted : 11 November 2021 07:58:17(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Wolfgang Frey R.I.P.
(Sorry for the -mostly- off topic)


??????????????????????? care to share?

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#11 Posted : 11 November 2021 09:33:51(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
That's Stuttgart Hbf.


Yes, I thought so (when looking at this photo last week). I've been there! Wink

Have they already converted the station to a through station (which they hadn't done when I was there in 2019)?

Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post
Recently I rediscovered my copy of ‘Märklin-Bahn und ihr grosses vorbild’, an A5 landscape format book with which I spent many an hour accompanied by a German English dictionary.

A lot later I managed to buy an English Language version of the book, ‘ Märklin miniature railway and its big prototype’ and was able to dispense with the dictionary.


We could have saved you the bother by pointing you to where you can download a pdf file of this book in English.

http://www.lctm.info/Sec...lioteca/Libros/index.php
Offline Mman  
#12 Posted : 11 November 2021 10:05:21(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
Was there ever an English language version of the ‘Minatur Eisenbahn’ 0753 book I wonder. It looks intriguing but I am defeated by my almost non existent German. I have asked one of my sons in the past who is fluent in (Tyrolean) German but he is defeated by the technical terms. A German whom I know from Meccano/Märklin Metall circles says that Märklin used to invent words - whether he was serious or joking I don’t know. Nevertheless if an English PDF exists of 0753 I would welcome that.
ChrisG
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 11 November 2021 10:49:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post
Nevertheless if an English PDF exists of 0753 I would welcome that.


See the link in my post above.
Offline Mman  
#14 Posted : 11 November 2021 10:59:01(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
0753 is an earlier version (possibly 1949) of the books I have, whilst much is repeated there are interesting looking bits that are not.
Thank you for the link to the site with the PDFs , are there any more?
ChrisG
Offline PJMärklin  
#15 Posted : 11 November 2021 12:41:09(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
I've been there! WinkHave they already converted the station to a through station (which they hadn't done when I was there in 2019)


Hi David,

It would seem the conversion started in 2010 and is hoped to be finished in 2025.
See here : https://en.wikipedia.org...i/Stuttgart_Hauptbahnhof

We were first there (Wink ) in 1983, on our way for the day from Tübingen to Heidelberg and thence return to
Tübingen, where we were staying for a week or two. I recall a dark red 212 like this one :


UserPostedImage


, with only 2 or 3 small coaches, took us from Tübingen to Stuttgart where we had a wait in which
time we took a turn around the nearbye city. I recall seeing the vestiges of the old city wall and the
giant revolving three-pointed Mercedes star atop the Mercedes building. I can't recall much else in the
limited time of our city excursion between trains (but that was 38 years agoRollEyes ) however in
due course thereafter we embarked our 103 IC train (like the one in the image below) to Heidelberg.
We have been there (Stuttgart) a couple of times since but only briefly, in transit.

I have not seen such a magnificent aerial image of the station before (as shown in post #1 above ThumpUp )
and did not recall (a “senior moment” for me, as nevw would say Blushing) that it was a terminal
station (a Kopfbahnhof, as Mike C has commented).

1983 was in the days of precious (to a thrifty young me) film to be exposed, long before the multi-takes
and delete-what-you-don't-like images of digital cameras.
So unfortunately whilst I did take some photos at Munich Hauptbahnhof that year, including this one :


UserPostedImage


, I did not take any photos at Stuttgart Hauptbahnhof ! Confused OhMyGod Sad

Regards,

Philip
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Offline hxmiesa  
#16 Posted : 11 November 2021 14:13:21(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Wolfgang Frey R.I.P.
(Sorry for the -mostly- off topic)

??????????????????????? care to share?

Yes, of course!
I am sorry, I thought that everybody knew the story about the creator of the Stuttgart Hbf model also linked to by IanC.

If you (or anybody else) doesnt know the story of the project, you should absolutly investigate a little with Google. It is such an impressive project for that one-man army Wolfgang Frey aparrently was. The project wasnt finished when he -very suddenly- passed away in 2012.
For many years the layout was abandoned (and water-damaged OhMyGod) before the guys at Herrenberg/Stellwerk-S picked it up.
There are some videos of the process of restauration, and although I was pretty sceptical at the beginning, they are still going strong repairing it! ThumpUp
Among the videos available, there is also an especially emotionally charged one, where the layouts first ever(!) oficial presentation to the public includes the attendance of the daugther and girlfriend of the late creator.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Minok  
#17 Posted : 12 November 2021 04:26:43(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
That is the Stuttgart main station which is no more. The section of the platforms nearer the main building is being converted to a modern underground station that is 90 deg to that layout. Much is that main area is reading completion. Once it’s all done most of that track yard will disappear.

Stuttgart
https://goo.gl/maps/SieMQNSb9WTZV93h6
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline Carim  
#18 Posted : 12 November 2021 10:26:23(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: London
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Wolfgang Frey R.I.P.
(Sorry for the -mostly- off topic)


This is just about 25% of his layout:



I found it quite a sad story; as well as being an inspirational build.

Carim
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Offline Mman  
#19 Posted : 12 November 2021 12:14:56(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
What an impressive build, how would you reach things in the centre?
In the 1950s aerial view of Stuttgart in the book I could not make out a turntable, roundhouse or triangle (or wye) to turn any steam locos which I assume would still have been around in those days in that part of Germany.
How did they do it? Had steam been eliminated that early around Stuttgart?

Where I used to live was a 2 mile double track branch line which ended at a station with a single platform on a pier in the sea, the line closed in 1915 now well outside the time anyone living would remember details of how it was operated. The puzzle is that there was no means of a loco running round its train at the pier and I’m almost sure they wouldn’t propel a passenger train for 2 miles through two level crossings until it reached the mainline. ‘Topping and tailing’ would be the only solution as far as I can see which would be an expensive way to run a branch line but there is now nothing in accessible records to say wha happened. I even have signalbox diagrams of the time and timetables.

So, like the late builder of the magnificent N gauge model of Stuttgart I have an interest in how a scheme was operated in real life - turntable or not?

ChrisG
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