Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 20 September 2021 19:11:24(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,448
Did read in the Facebook somebody did wrote that pick up shoe does only have contact on three stud contact.
I have seen myself with my locomotive with the pick up shoe do have contact on four stud contact on the tracks.
They also wrote that there is more contact with the wheels by use two rail system than three rail.
What do you think about pick up shoes on the stud contact?
CS3...H0...
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 20 September 2021 19:26:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,287
Location: DE-NW
I think I see more track-cleaning cars on two-rail layouts than on three-rail layouts. Why is that so?

With the up and down on turnouts, the slider may have contact with two studs only, assuming it is an old-style slider. On level track, there may be contact with six or more studs.

Sometimes the contact problems are between axle and loco frame.
Two-rail locos usually have sliders at the wheels. Those can become dirty and also lead to problems. A part that does not exist in old-style three-rail locos.

I'll stick to three-rail even if there should be evidence that two-rail has better contact.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by H0
Online David Dewar  
#3 Posted : 20 September 2021 23:47:44(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,014
Location: Scotland
Had two rail many years ago and locos are far better on three rail. There is of course some extra noise but worth that for better running. Pick up shoes need cleaned and adjusted at times.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline mvd71  
#4 Posted : 21 September 2021 04:29:09(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,430
Location: Auckland,
There are always people in the two rail fraternity willing to spread myths of the superiority of their system.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mvd71
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#5 Posted : 21 September 2021 06:28:11(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,057
Location: New Zealand
I would hope that people would be mature and beyond babbling on about the superiority of their system - alas not!

This whole 3 rail vs 2 rail thing is all a bit silly, and we get a bit of it going on here - usually from the 2 rail guys to the 3 rail guys.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline Goofy  
#6 Posted : 22 September 2021 20:05:58(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,448
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
I would hope that people would be mature and beyond babbling on about the superiority of their system - alas not!

This whole 3 rail vs 2 rail thing is all a bit silly, and we get a bit of it going on here - usually from the 2 rail guys to the 3 rail guys.


It was a Märklinist who did present fact about information.
What babbling?
Märklinist did complain too about pick up shoes on the stud contact.
How many stud contact does pick up shoes do have?

CS3...H0...
Offline Crazy Harry  
#7 Posted : 22 September 2021 20:52:42(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
How many stud contact does pick up shoes do have?


On straight track with a straight pick-up shoe (slider) it depends on the length of the slider. Every stud under the pick-up should be in contact with it.

Harold.

Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 23 September 2021 08:39:36(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,287
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It was a Märklinist who did present fact about information.
What babbling?
It was Goofy who did not present a link.
Where are the facts? Where is verifiable information?

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#9 Posted : 23 September 2021 09:40:40(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,448
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It was a Märklinist who did present fact about information.
What babbling?
It was Goofy who did not present a link.
Where are the facts? Where is verifiable information?



Facebook
marklinofsweden

CS3...H0...
Offline Purellum  
#10 Posted : 23 September 2021 11:42:17(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,364
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


Facebook
marklinofsweden



I have now looked one year back on Martin's Facebook page, without finding anything like this?

Could you please be a little more specific?

Per

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 23 September 2021 11:54:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,287
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Facebook
marklinofsweden
This is not a link to the specific information.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Online David Dewar  
#12 Posted : 23 September 2021 13:59:24(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,014
Location: Scotland
Some like two rail and others like those on Marklin like three rail. Each to his own and why not leave it like that.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline Bryan  
#13 Posted : 23 September 2021 23:20:54(UTC)
Bryan

Australia   
Joined: 08/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Bowral, NSW, Australia
Dear All
This discussion on 2 rail versus 3 rail always comes up and there are very simple facts about it.
The 3 rail system picks up the current with a wiping action on the middle stud, which in itself is constantly cleaning the contact with this action. Also the return current flows through all the wheels, including the rolling stock via the couplings in some cases, again a very good contact.
With 2 rail you are relying on a rolling contact, on at the most 4 wheels and many just two. Also the return is in the opposite wheel sets only.
At the end of the day a wiping contact is far better than than a rolling contact, it’s just electrical physics.
David
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Bryan
Offline DaleSchultz  
#14 Posted : 24 September 2021 00:49:16(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,876
The answer to the question is: FALSE
Goofy actually answered part of his own question in his initial post.

The statement was that slider only makes contact in 3 places is refuted as Goofy observed 4.

Furthermore, given the same wheel configuration (say 3 axles) a 2-rail loco has potentially 2 x 3 contact points. A 3 rail loco has 6 potential contact points PLUS however many contacts the slider provides. The entire circuit will only be as good as the worst contact set, and (as pointed out above) the slider is superior to wheels. So the choice is between 3 + 3 wheels or 6 wheels plus the slider contacts.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline fkowal  
#15 Posted : 24 September 2021 01:01:47(UTC)
fkowal

Canada   
Joined: 01/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 66
Location: Toronto
When it comes to the question "how many pukos are in contact with the slider" comes up, the answer is simple. "One is a great step above none", and "one is good enough for me".
Offline river6109  
#16 Posted : 24 September 2021 02:41:11(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,780
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
It depends on the sliders length, the old class 44 had 2 small sliders, whereas other newer steamlocos e.g. 01 097 had a much longer slider., all my electric 2 rail locos have either 4 or 6 contacts on the wheels, as Tom said: they also can get dirty (getting dirty when you oil them and then all the grime sticks to it., a typical Märklin failure of contact between the frame and the bogie in earlier models, either diesel or electric was the 2 different metals between the frame and bogie, when you take them apart you can clearly see the electrical dark contact engravings caused by the 2 different metals, to avoid this contact failure I'e soldered a wire direct to the bogie., the only reason I buy 2 rail electric locos is they have an extra powered axle where as a 3 rail version has to have the slider and a non powered axle.
everything else is unfounded, myth and total misguidance and I would recommend stick what you know, stick what you happy with and don't stick your nose into something you don't know about it and don't forget there is a solution for every man made problem.
If you're not happy with 2 or 3 rail you always could try a wind up or battery operated loco or use a powerpack to keep your locos running.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Goofy  
#17 Posted : 28 September 2021 14:01:28(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,448
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
The answer to the question is: FALSE
Goofy actually answered part of his own question in his initial post.

The statement was that slider only makes contact in 3 places is refuted as Goofy observed 4.

Furthermore, given the same wheel configuration (say 3 axles) a 2-rail loco has potentially 2 x 3 contact points. A 3 rail loco has 6 potential contact points PLUS however many contacts the slider provides. The entire circuit will only be as good as the worst contact set, and (as pointed out above) the slider is superior to wheels. So the choice is between 3 + 3 wheels or 6 wheels plus the slider contacts.


There is dirt and oxid on the stud contacts too, which make worse contact for the Märklin locomotives with the pick up shoes.
Forget about wheels on the rail about Märklin, it is stud contact and pick up shoes we discuss.
CS3...H0...
Offline Copenhagen  
#18 Posted : 28 September 2021 19:03:35(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


There is dirt and oxid on the stud contacts too, which make worse contact for the Märklin locomotives with the pick up shoes.
Forget about wheels on the rail about Märklin, it is stud contact and pick up shoes we discuss.


In my experience there is far, far less dirt and oxidation on the studs than on the rails (and wheels). And it's wrong to say that the studs and pick up shoe "make worse contact for the Märklin locomotives".
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Copenhagen
Offline DaleSchultz  
#19 Posted : 28 September 2021 21:23:19(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,876
this whole thread is yet another waste of people's time.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 28 September 2021 21:52:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,287
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
There is dirt and oxid on the stud contacts too, which make worse contact for the Märklin locomotives with the pick up shoes.
Forget about wheels on the rail about Märklin, it is stud contact and pick up shoes we discuss.
Rust on the centre-rail is a real problem if tracks have not been used for a long time.
Running a good loco a few rounds at full speed resolves that problem.
No issue if tracks are used frequently. Cool

Locos with traction tyres are a real problem on two-rail track. No self-cleaning done by running trains.
I don't like to admit it, but sometimes (once every leap year) the outer rails of three-rail track require cleaning. Cool

Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
this whole thread is yet another waste of people's time.
Administrators can lock threads, but they can also lock user. One way or other the issue will be resolved. Cool
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline river6109  
#21 Posted : 28 September 2021 23:59:37(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,780
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I think with every topic we learn something, there is always something that is useful regardless with some of us: know all", been there, it is for those who have had troubles in the past and haven't figured it out: why ? with us more experienced members, we can pin point most troublesome issues and also give explanation, solutions how to fix these problems and why they occur., I could mention several problems with sliders, not necessary Märklin sliders but Roco pick up shoes but the problem hasn't been mentioned it here so I'll leave this for another day., keeping trains running has been a good outcome on our layout and it was only 3 days ago I've cleaned the wheels and pickup shoe of some of our smaller locos and we may have to look at reducing the voltage on our ESU Command station; track middle contact points are also different between M - K or C -track

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
H0
Offline Goofy  
#22 Posted : 29 September 2021 08:11:40(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,448
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


There is dirt and oxid on the stud contacts too, which make worse contact for the Märklin locomotives with the pick up shoes.
Forget about wheels on the rail about Märklin, it is stud contact and pick up shoes we discuss.


In my experience there is far, far less dirt and oxidation on the studs than on the rails (and wheels). And it's wrong to say that the studs and pick up shoe "make worse contact for the Märklin locomotives".


I wouldn´t say like that!
I have seen video in the Youtube how Märklinist present so much dirt on the Märklin tracks and they show how to clean stud contacts too and there is really lot of dirt too.
In fact...pick up shoe do have bad contact on the dirt stud contacts.
The more dirt the lesser stud contact on the pick up shoe.
I have seen pick up shoe do have contact on three-four stud contact but the question is if this are enough?
I was forced to by clean stud contact to avoid locomotive in slow speed interrupt on the track.
Not only rail cleans too.

CS3...H0...
Offline Goofy  
#23 Posted : 29 September 2021 08:22:24(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,448
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
this whole thread is yet another waste of people's time.
Administrators can lock threads, but they can also lock user. One way or other the issue will be resolved. Cool


In fact...no they can´t when we explain one of the common problem in the model railway world.
As always we do have discuss in the forum about problems and how to solve problems.
Do you even complains about tip in the Youtube when there is Märklinist present how to solve problems with the Märklin tracks and turnouts?

CS3...H0...
Offline river6109  
#24 Posted : 29 September 2021 11:36:50(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,780
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I don't think from previous experiences (over 50 years) it was ever a problem whether 3 or 4 pukos touched the slider., you only need 1 puko to touch the track and you have an electrical contact., sometimes it can be confused with no wheel contact especially over double turnouts with small shunting locos., in your topic it doesn't say what the problems suppose to be or what the original person meant by it., it would make more sense if someone would have written what do you think of 3 wheels instead of 4., personally I cannot see the slightest problem whether your slider touches 3 or 4 pukos.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Copenhagen  
#25 Posted : 29 September 2021 13:08:19(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


There is dirt and oxid on the stud contacts too, which make worse contact for the Märklin locomotives with the pick up shoes.
Forget about wheels on the rail about Märklin, it is stud contact and pick up shoes we discuss.


In my experience there is far, far less dirt and oxidation on the studs than on the rails (and wheels). And it's wrong to say that the studs and pick up shoe "make worse contact for the Märklin locomotives".


I wouldn´t say like that!
I have seen video in the Youtube how Märklinist present so much dirt on the Märklin tracks and they show how to clean stud contacts too and there is really lot of dirt too.
In fact...pick up shoe do have bad contact on the dirt stud contacts.
The more dirt the lesser stud contact on the pick up shoe.
I have seen pick up shoe do have contact on three-four stud contact but the question is if this are enough?
I was forced to by clean stud contact to avoid locomotive in slow speed interrupt on the track.
Not only rail cleans too.



In my experience with C track dirt on the pukos isn't a problem. I just wiped a length of track with a piece of paper pressing down with three fingers and, yes, there was a heavy black streak of dirt from the pukos and less from the tracks. This length, around a meter or so (three feet) is heavily run by trains and the outer tracks have been wiped a few times over a couple of years. The middle track hasn't been cleaned, apart from maybe a wipe over after finishing the landscaping and track laying. And this length of track has never caused any issues with trains stopping (not saying that there aren't occasional issues other places of course). This probably proves the saying that the more you run your trains the less contact problems you'll have... at least what goes on with the pick up shoes and the pukos because the slider will constantly wipe the studs. Conversely tracks that have seen little use for a long time will tend to have dead spots that'll usually disappear after been run over a few times with a locomotive a some speed. I guess that two-rail people have similar issues and experiences.

A funny thing about slider and puko contact happened to me yesterday. A steam loco constantly stopped when at slow speed in a hidden, but accessible, part of the layout. I did all the usual stuff, cleaning and rubbing with a graphite stick to no avail. Upon closer inspection I discovered a blob of hardened PVA glue on one of the pukos. Other locomotives didn't have problems with this but this particular loco with a fairly long slider seemed to get the slider lifted up so much that it lost power momentarily, cutting the sound but not stopping at medium speed, and completely stopping at slow speed. Removing the blob solved the problem of course.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Copenhagen
Online kiwiAlan  
#26 Posted : 29 September 2021 13:51:37(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,336
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

I wouldn´t say like that!
I have seen video in the Youtube how Märklinist present so much dirt on the Märklin tracks and they show how to clean stud contacts too and there is really lot of dirt too.
In fact...pick up shoe do have bad contact on the dirt stud contacts.
The more dirt the lesser stud contact on the pick up shoe.
I have seen pick up shoe do have contact on three-four stud contact but the question is if this are enough?
I was forced to by clean stud contact to avoid locomotive in slow speed interrupt on the track.
Not only rail cleans too.



You keep saying "I have seen ..." but never provide links to the videos or whatever to provide evidence of what you are claiming. At some point you need to back up your claims, because no-one else is having such problems with dirt on the pukos.

So if you want people to believe you provide some links to what you have been watching, otherwise we will just think it is unsubstantiated rumour.

thanks 3 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline hxmiesa  
#27 Posted : 29 September 2021 14:38:46(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,295
Location: Spain
I dont know why you guys say that the slider connect with more than 2 pukos.

When stopped, I doubt that the slider touches more than 2 pukos. I cant see how that is mechanically possible. (Like trying to set the 4 legs of a chair on rough ground; It will always ever only touch on 3...)
Even with a perfectly level slider, and a strech of pukos equally straight, there will always be a micro-variation so that the current only flows through 2 points. (Our sliders and track isnt always totally straight -to say the least!)

When moving -because of the sping-mechanism of the slider- I understand that it can touch up to 3 pukos, while sliding forwards. It is probably an alternating stream of 1-2-3 contact-points, until a dreaded 0 contact-points point is reached...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by hxmiesa
Offline H0  
#28 Posted : 29 September 2021 21:26:18(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,287
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I dont know why you guys say that the slider connect with more than 2 pukos.
Newer wipers of the whisper type use a thinner and somewhat flexible material, so there may well be three or more contact points.

Maybe scientists should research this. Could high-speed cameras be of any value? How can you show where current flows?
Maybe feed each puko separately and measure the current.
Sounds like an interesting project, but I don't have time for it.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline bph  
#29 Posted : 29 September 2021 23:27:07(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 399
In the old Märklin Service manual 0733, Märklin state the following: (this for information only)
Pickup_shoe.jpg

Personally, I'm not too concerned by this, as long as the locomotive runs fairly nicely.


marklinofsweden has released a new interesting video

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by bph
Offline Goofy  
#30 Posted : 10 October 2021 16:35:50(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,448
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

I wouldn´t say like that!
I have seen video in the Youtube how Märklinist present so much dirt on the Märklin tracks and they show how to clean stud contacts too and there is really lot of dirt too.
In fact...pick up shoe do have bad contact on the dirt stud contacts.
The more dirt the lesser stud contact on the pick up shoe.
I have seen pick up shoe do have contact on three-four stud contact but the question is if this are enough?
I was forced to by clean stud contact to avoid locomotive in slow speed interrupt on the track.
Not only rail cleans too.



You keep saying "I have seen ..." but never provide links to the videos or whatever to provide evidence of what you are claiming. At some point you need to back up your claims, because no-one else is having such problems with dirt on the pukos.

So if you want people to believe you provide some links to what you have been watching, otherwise we will just think it is unsubstantiated rumour.



As i did wrote...Youtube presents fact with the videos.
Can you see the provide now? LOL
Yes Märklinist do have problems with the puckos on the tracks, because of the dirt cause by of oxid.
There is problems with the pick up shoes too and must clean there too.
The more dirt and the lesser contact on the stud contacts.
In the model railway there is always necessary to clean the tracks in both 2 and 3 rail system.

CS3...H0...
Online David Dewar  
#31 Posted : 10 October 2021 17:21:59(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,014
Location: Scotland
I think we are all aware that we need to clean tracks and sliders from time to time. For me Marklin are better than others for running qualities and I dont see any problems.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline river6109  
#32 Posted : 10 October 2021 18:45:14(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,780
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Fortunately our human brain has the capacity to sort out problems, most the time problems are written on paper, emails and media outlets, if everybody uses their brain problems can be solved quite easily or you asked someone who has a brain to work it out., a problem like: I've spilled a glass of water: the problem is the floor is now wet, the answer is you wipe it dry or you state your problem on a forum and stating the fact the floor is wet and how can I solve the problem.
I personally could tell you hundreds of problems I've experienced a.) you could think: he has got a problem, b.) I've heard this problem before, c.) what is he going to do about it, d.) Its not really my problem, e.) lets have a lenghtly discussion about problems or you heard enough and you close the page and I don't have a problem with this.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Purellum  
#33 Posted : 10 October 2021 21:10:11(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,364
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
a.) you could think: he has got a problem, b.) I've heard this problem before, c.) what is he going to do about it, d.) Its not really my problem, e.) lets have a lenghtly discussion about problems or you heard enough and you close the page and I don't have a problem with this.


Yes; but this must be a case f.) Goofy thinks he's seen somebody having a problem, and then wants us to solve this problem. Crying

Unfortunately he can't tell us who had the problem, how the problem shows up or how the problem affects this person's life;
he just keeps claiming that the problem is existing, without any proof............. Confused

One of the most funny "problems" he came up with was detonations in AC power systems............. LOL

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline mike c  
#34 Posted : 10 October 2021 21:43:52(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,228
Location: Montreal, QC
It is important to remember that in Maerklin, the slider contacts the studs, which transmit the power by wire to the electrics/electronics of the model. The return (ground) is conducted to both rails by means of the wheels, often by the metal housing itself.
In most DC models, power is collected from each rail, one + and one -. The wheels are in contact with the rails and little contacts are required to conduct the power from the wheels to the innards. Some may have used the chassis for one pole, but this often proved to be problematic in a derailment when the body was in contact with the other track or with a model that was inverted in direction and thusly had the chassis polarized the other way.
In a Bo-Bo model (Re 4/4II) type, it can often mean that power is collected from one rail on the lead bogie and from the other rail on the trailing bogie. If the model has traction tires, this means that perhaps 3 of 4 wheels on a particular bogie are used for current collection.
When we compare the two, this means that a Maerklin slider will most likely have a greater contact with multiple studs than a DC model with contacts on the wheels.

I started out modelling with Canadian Triang (Hornby) DC models. As I got older and was exposed to Swiss trains, I switched to Maerklin models as there was more SBB models for that system and we already had a basic selection of Maerklin track. The Maerklin have always been mechanically and electrically/electronically more reliable, but I presume that technology and other factors have levelled the playing field in many aspects.

Regards

Mike C
Offline river6109  
#35 Posted : 11 October 2021 03:15:52(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,780
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
It is obvious with Märklin, some of the issues they have with different metals they've never solved it or corrected the problem, there are other manufacturers who use sliders made of stainless steel and they are useless with Märklin steel pukos, it is usually a combination of 2 different metal coming into contact with and of course there is the oxidation of metals as well, mainly caused by humidity.,
In my case, the layout K-tracks, most of them are over 40 years old, humidity and acidity played also a roll in the past and this what we're trying to rectify by adding more insulation to the garage or train room. looking at Roco sliders and compare them with Märklin sliders, I prefer Märklin sliders, another factor is how much voltage goes through your track system, the higher the voltage the higher the arcing possibiltiy, between sliders and pukos, since I've installed ball bearings to my motors I don't oil or grease the gears or motor anymore and this reduces the grime and dirt to hang onto tracks.
So yes there can be problems with tracks but the cause can be a variety of reasons or a combination of factors., if you experience these problems and can't solve them you may be better off not having a layout and just display your locos and rollingstock in a display cabinet and after 10 years of displaying your trains in a dispaly cabinet, let us know the problems you've experienced with display cabinets or you may even kept them in boxes and the items gone all rusty.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by river6109
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2021, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.771 seconds.