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Offline Jaco49  
#1 Posted : 09 August 2021 10:06:48(UTC)
Jaco49

South Africa   
Joined: 01/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Pretoria
OLD Steam Loco’s - Electrics

Not sure if this is the right place to post - mods please move is not.

Trains are not my prime hobby, which is woodworking (i.e. destroying an expensive piece of timber in a couple of minutes and creating a huge amount of dust!)
However I do have Marklin kit dating back to the late 50’s and early 60’s.

My first set was a 3000 plus 3 wagons and an oval track, which was an Xmas pressie in 1961.

Subsequently I bought a whole lot of stuff from a deceased estate. 5 Steam locos, lots of points, bridges, rails, buildings.
I have 3 transformers for driving locos and one for auxiliary stuff (turntable)

Which was all very nicely boxed for years and moved with us when we downsized 6 years ago. The garage can only fit 2 cars and all my woodworking machines, and even then it is cramped. And certainly no space for trains.

However ………….

Son asked me to set up a small layout for my grandson to see the trains.
Easy says Oupa, just need to finish off the loco refurbishment started about 30 years ago and then packed away. This requires unpacking the largest box on the garage shelves and also some smaller boxes..

There are 6 steam locos, will not bore you with the one by one repair.

I set up a small test track running across the workbench and router table, long enough to get decent results.



The largest is an F800 from late 50’s maybe?

F800

All the parts are cleaned with meths. The slider replaced, wheels cleaned and tyres replaced.
Now to strip the motor.
Two screws and the cover comes off exposing the rotor and stator.

{Remember - Be very careful about the wires coming loose and where they fit!}

I watched some U-Tube on how to strip, clean & repair. I de-soldered wires to get the cover off. The wires are quite brittle after all these years.
Cleaned reassembled and ready to test.

Did I mention the small screws? Very small screws? That tend to get lost? Fortunately there are some spares that I bought years ago.

The electrical current is 19v AC.
The direction control thingy works, so there is power going in.
The motor shows no sign of life.

The way I see it is:
The slider picks up the one power line and the wheels the second power line. So to test it would be slider to pole on motor and wheels to other pole.
I have a small multimeter for testing. (not sure how to use it for continuity Blushing )

Question -
How do I test the continuity of the power pickup to the motor?
What else do I need to check and maybe replace?
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Jaco49
GLI
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 09 August 2021 10:11:43(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,819
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Welcome to the forum
Pictures tell a thousand words of the inside of the loco, especially the wiring, check the contact between the slider wire and see where it goes to. checke the coil magnet it should have 3 wires coming from, 1 double wire from the inide of the coil to the brush plate the other 2 on top of the coil to the reversing unit.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Jaco49  
#3 Posted : 09 August 2021 10:15:51(UTC)
Jaco49

South Africa   
Joined: 01/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Pretoria
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Welcome to the forum
Pictures tell a thousand words of the inside of the loco, especially the wiring, check the contact between the slider wire and see where it goes to. checke the coil magnet it should have 3 wires coming from, 1 double wire from the inide of the coil to the brush plate the other 2 on top of the coil to the reversing unit.

John



Thanks very much John, will have a look this afternoon.
(will look and see about adding pics)
Ok fotos have to have an URL, will have a look what is on the woodwork forum.
DONE! Easy

Cheers
Phil
Offline Mman  
#4 Posted : 09 August 2021 11:10:03(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: England, Guildford
Check also that the carbon/brass mesh brushes are free to move and the commutator is clean, a fibre cleaning pencil is good for this.
ChrisG
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mman
Online cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 09 August 2021 11:27:17(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,685
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Hi Jaco,

If you can add a photo of the front of your multimeter we can also assist with how to check continuity.

However it's about the easiest thing. There's almost certainly a setting on the dial for that, and many multimeters also have a beeper that you can hear. This will have a small speaker symbol.

Put to that setting and join the two probes. If you hear a beep, that's continuity.

Or, simply hold the probes together and turn the dial slowly through every setting. You won't do any damage.

The only settings that should give any response to the probes being crossed will be resistance (Ohm symbol) and the Diode/Continuity setting.

Hope that helps

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Johnvr  
#6 Posted : 09 August 2021 11:28:10(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,238
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hello Jaco

John here, from Cape Town.
Welcome to the forum.

I can certainly assist you.
I have done all my own Marklin maintenanc services for years, including digital conversions.
I also have lots of spare parts for old locos which have been upgraded to digital.

Happy to have a whatsapp call / video if you need assistance.

RegardsBigGrin
John
Offline Jaco49  
#7 Posted : 09 August 2021 11:34:49(UTC)
Jaco49

South Africa   
Joined: 01/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Pretoria
Originally Posted by: Mman Go to Quoted Post
Check also that the carbon/brass mesh brushes are free to move and the commutator is clean, a fibre cleaning pencil is good for this.
ChrisG




Thanks, made a note.
Offline Jaco49  
#8 Posted : 09 August 2021 11:36:52(UTC)
Jaco49

South Africa   
Joined: 01/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Pretoria
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jaco,

If you can add a photo of the front of your multimeter we can also assist with how to check continuity.

However it's about the easiest thing. There's almost certainly a setting on the dial for that, and many multimeters also have a beeper that you can hear. This will have a small speaker symbol.

Put to that setting and join the two probes. If you hear a beep, that's continuity.

Or, simply hold the probes together and turn the dial slowly through every setting. You won't do any damage.

The only settings that should give any response to the probes being crossed will be resistance (Ohm symbol) and the Diode/Continuity setting.

Hope that helps

Steve





Thanks I will have a try later this afternoon
Offline Jaco49  
#9 Posted : 09 August 2021 11:40:18(UTC)
Jaco49

South Africa   
Joined: 01/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Pretoria
Originally Posted by: Johnvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello Jaco

John here, from Cape Town.
Welcome to the forum.

I can certainly assist you.
I have done all my own Marklin maintenanc services for years, including digital conversions.
I also have lots of spare parts for old locos which have been upgraded to digital.

Happy to have a whatsapp call / video if you need assistance.

RegardsBigGrin
John





Thanks John, will give a shout if I get stuck.
(remember your name from from donkey years ago when I first messed around with these locos and built my roundhouseBigGrin )

Cheers
Phil
Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 09 August 2021 14:08:11(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,798
Location: Paris, France
Hi and welcome to the forum.
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline ocram63_uk  
#11 Posted : 09 August 2021 15:44:05(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 559
Location: England, Suffolk
What may happen is to forget to solder the two tiny copper cables, that come out of the vertical copper blob,
To the front of the engine cover
Offline Jaco49  
#12 Posted : 14 August 2021 08:37:23(UTC)
Jaco49

South Africa   
Joined: 01/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Pretoria
Thanks for the welcome chaps.


Ok!

Problem solved

On the top of the direction control thing is a ..........................

Dead Man Switch!

So for the loco to run the body needs to be mounted on the chassis.
But not only that, there needs to be a thin piece of plastic stuck under the boiler which then presses the switch down.
A bit of trial and error and it works.
Now need to source some very small springs and brushes.

In the mean time (my time is limited to 1.5 hours in the afternoon) I also tackled the turntable.
Stripped the motor. It needs new brushes.
Problem - it now only runs in one direction So, it will all have to be stripped again.

Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 14 August 2021 14:12:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,426
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Jaco49 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the welcome chaps.


Ok!

Problem solved

On the top of the direction control thing is a ..........................

Dead Man Switch!

So for the loco to run the body needs to be mounted on the chassis.
But not only that, there needs to be a thin piece of plastic stuck under the boiler which then presses the switch down.
A bit of trial and error and it works.



That shouldn't be necessary. The loco should run fine without the body on.

That is not a dead man switch, but is designed to cut the motor current while the reversing mechanism is activated to stop the loco running down the track at hyper speed if someone hold the controller in the reverse pulse state. It sounds like someone has accidentally caught it and bent it, and now it requires some judicious adjustment so the contact is made normally but with the armature pulled in the contact opens.

some judicious tweaking of it with tweezers is what is required. The springy bit should be parallel to the top of the reverse unit.

Offline Jaco49  
#14 Posted : 14 August 2021 15:42:43(UTC)
Jaco49

South Africa   
Joined: 01/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Pretoria
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jaco49 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the welcome chaps.


Ok!

Problem solved

On the top of the direction control thing is a ..........................

Dead Man Switch!

So for the loco to run the body needs to be mounted on the chassis.
But not only that, there needs to be a thin piece of plastic stuck under the boiler which then presses the switch down.
A bit of trial and error and it works.



That shouldn't be necessary. The loco should run fine without the body on.

That is not a dead man switch, but is designed to cut the motor current while the reversing mechanism is activated to stop the loco running down the track at hyper speed if someone hold the controller in the reverse pulse state. It sounds like someone has accidentally caught it and bent it, and now it requires some judicious adjustment so the contact is made normally but with the armature pulled in the contact opens.

some judicious tweaking of it with tweezers is what is required. The springy bit should be parallel to the top of the reverse unit.



I will have a look tomorrow.
The garage is f-cold today, virtually no sun all day.

Offline Jaco49  
#15 Posted : 10 October 2021 14:46:45(UTC)
Jaco49

South Africa   
Joined: 01/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Pretoria
Ok, some progress.

The F800 switch on top now bent and sorted out, fitted new brushes and spring, runs like a dream.
Absolute pleasure watching it run.

Fitted new brushes and springs to all the other locos.
Stripped the motors and some reverse units for cleaning
One 3000 also runs well.

The others ....................
Either don't move or shoot forward/backward when changing direction.
They will be packed away for repairs at some later stage.

The turntable is sorted and runs. Still very noisy.
The 3 contacts on the bridge came loose, cause of turning malfunction, and have a temporary piece of plastic with Presstick holding them down.
Also the way I connected the rails to the turntable was a problem as the power feeders were not on the infeed line. Solved this by making a powered buffer for one of the infeeds. (quick & dirty job, will make a better one later)

Points working.
Enough to do a small layout. Will see if I can source some 12mm ply board.

I managed to scrounge the power pack from an old desk top PC.
Gives me DC 3.3v, 5v, 12v. This will be used to power up accessories.

Cheers

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