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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 27 July 2021 13:59:34(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,777
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Tomorrow a technician will arrive at our home and will let me know the best way to connect the ECoS via WiFi in the garage, the router in the house doesn't reach far enough, I have a telephone line in the garage but its dead, there is a junction box in the bedroom with wires hanging out and I hope these wires are the same of the telephone cord in the garage. and the rest is guess work, we'll see if we can attach another router in the garage, including the telephone line, let you know tomorrow., will also find out of the Mobile control II will work ?
When everything is properly worked out we than can start controlling trains via the Mobile Control and I've got 4 Märklin Mobile Stations which will be installed around the layout, so I either can turn the system on and off or control certain locos.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 27 July 2021 17:37:41(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,755
Location: Paris, France
Hi John
Not sure it helps much, my layout is in deep Normandy with only a weak mobile coverage.
So I run my layout using a CS3 (equivalent to an ECOS more or less) and a laptop with Rocrail.
When I need to make an update, either I connect my smartphone to get internet access or I bring my CS3 to my other home with a powerful Internet box.
Here, our phone contract includes unlimited data access and unlimited international access. Isn't it the same for you?
Here is a glimpse of my layout with "intermittent" internet access


Another solution is to bury between your garage and your house a long Ethernet cable in a protective flexible duct.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline Ranjit  
#3 Posted : 27 July 2021 19:10:55(UTC)
Ranjit


Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,930
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Don't know anything about what you are intending to do tomorrow, but good luck with the set-up anyways, John !!

Good night !

Cheers,
Ranjit
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital
_____________________________________________________________________________

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Offline bph  
#4 Posted : 27 July 2021 20:02:23(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 399
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Tomorrow a technician will arrive at our home and will let me know the best way to connect the ECoS via WiFi in the garage, the router in the house doesn't reach far enough, I have a telephone line in the garage but its dead, there is a junction box in the bedroom with wires hanging out and I hope these wires are the same of the telephone cord in the garage. and the rest is guess work, we'll see if we can attach another router in the garage, including the telephone line, let you know tomorrow., will also find out of the Mobile control II will work ?
When everything is properly worked out we than can start controlling trains via the Mobile Control and I've got 4 Märklin Mobile Stations which will be installed around the layout, so I either can turn the system on and off or control certain locos.

John


One option might also be to get a Powerline Extender, E.G. https://www.netgear.com/au/home/wired/powerline/

note that the real life speed is a bit slower than advertised, but it should be more than enough for your ECoS. (I’m getting 75 Mbps through a PLP2000, on different circuits phases.)

Edited by user 28 July 2021 11:35:08(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 28 July 2021 08:31:08(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,777
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I'm not worried about my ECoS but mainly the Mobile Control II, to get a WiFi signal in my garage., unless I'm off the track what you had in mind, the technician came today and the telephone line is useless as it doesn't carry any data, 2ndly I would need a cable going from the router about 25 meter to the garage and buy an extender, this installation could cost me abput A$ 600.00 and the other option is getting a WiFi which would reach distances above 25 meters at a cost of A$ 200.00
the other thing is how does the ECoS communicate with the Mobile Control II , is this what the Netgear powerline is for ?

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline bph  
#6 Posted : 28 July 2021 10:32:34(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 399
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I'm not worried about my ECoS but mainly the Mobile Control II, to get a WiFi signal in my garage., unless I'm off the track what you had in mind, the technician came today and the telephone line is useless as it doesn't carry any data, 2ndly I would need a cable going from the router about 25 meter to the garage and buy an extender, this installation could cost me abput A$ 600.00 and the other option is getting a WiFi which would reach distances above 25 meters at a cost of A$ 200.00
the other thing is how does the ECoS communicate with the Mobile Control II , is this what the Netgear powerline is for ?

John


Hi
In short, the power line adapter will send your network signal over the house power wires. As long as the garage receives power from the same meter as your house and the distance is not too long, it should work.
if you don’t already have an extra access point for your garage the WIFI model might be a good choice as it provides a WIFI aces point and cabled network. Of course, other brands might also be usable, Netgear is just one example.

The power line adapters include a kit of two adapters, one goes in your house near the internet router and requires a cable to your router. And the other goes in your garage and provide internet there.

The first time setting it up might be a little fiddly, so I recommend setting it up inside and get it working there, before you moving one out to your garage. But read the manual about how to sync them.
I have one PC and my Cs3 getting internet through a power line adapters and it works quite nicely (3 adapters in use).

there are several YouTube videos about it:

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Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 28 July 2021 11:38:33(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,777
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Bph, how far is your CS 3 from the home electricity plug ? has your CS3 WiFi ?

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline xxup  
#8 Posted : 28 July 2021 13:11:17(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,244
Location: Australia
My experience with those adapters in Australia is that they only work on the same circuit.. If your house power is, for example, wired to one circuit breaker (or fuse) upstairs and a different one for downstairs then you can't use one unit upstairs and one downstairs. However, you can use both upstairs or downstairs.

WiFi can be a risky solution if you live in an area with other wifi units close by and they choose 2.4Ghz as there are only three non-overlapping channels on that Frequency in Australia. 5Ghz has more channels, but a much shorter range - inside a 25m room will be okay, but 25m from inside the house, through metal walls of your shed is asking a lot - the weaker the signal the slower the speed. So, $600 for the cable option is smarter.. If you also place a 4 or 8 port network switch in the shed, the you can connect the eCOS and a wireless access point for the MSII and have another PC connect to the Internet..
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 28 July 2021 13:34:07(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,777
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
My experience with those adapters in Australia is that they only work on the same circuit.. If your house power is, for example, wired to one circuit breaker (or fuse) upstairs and a different one for downstairs then you can't use one unit upstairs and one downstairs. However, you can use both upstairs or downstairs.

WiFi can be a risky solution if you live in an area with other wifi units close by and they choose 2.4Ghz as there are only three non-overlapping channels on that Frequency in Australia. 5Ghz has more channels, but a much shorter range - inside a 25m room will be okay, but 25m from inside the house, through metal walls of your shed is asking a lot - the weaker the signal the slower the speed. So, $600 for the cable option is smarter.. If you also place a 4 or 8 port network switch in the shed, the you can connect the eCOS and a wireless access point for the MSII and have another PC connect to the Internet..

Adrian, thank you for this information, as you can tell my experience with these gadgets is almost zero, I'll pass it on to my son and we most probably go for the option of spending A$ 600.00 and getting a cable from the home router down to the garage.
it will also solve updating the ECoS or adding loco pictures without transporting back to my computer desk and in future we most porbably add a model rail program, e.g. rock rail ?

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 28 July 2021 13:54:53(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,755
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I'm not worried about my ECoS but mainly the Mobile Control II, to get a WiFi signal in my garage., unless I'm off the track what you had in mind, the technician came today and the telephone line is useless as it doesn't carry any data, 2ndly I would need a cable going from the router about 25 meter to the garage and buy an extender, this installation could cost me abput A$ 600.00 and the other option is getting a WiFi which would reach distances above 25 meters at a cost of A$ 200.00
the other thing is how does the ECoS communicate with the Mobile Control II , is this what the Netgear powerline is for ?

John

Hi John
Why not use a local router (in your garage) with WiFi and connected to your Ecos but not to Internet. This works with a CS2 / CS3 and Mobile / Main station Apps (iPhone) so why not with your Ecos? Here the cost of a WiFi router is approx 50€ Too expensive?
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
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Offline bph  
#11 Posted : 28 July 2021 14:16:54(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 399
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Bph, how far is your CS 3 from the home electricity plug ? has your CS3 WiFi ?

John


The cs3 is within normal range from the electrical plug, and it has its own network cable directly to the power extender.

I have wifi coverage in the rooms as well so I can use my phone and tablets on the cs3. I could have used a wifi extender but then I would have to use a wifi backbone link. I find that the use of a power extender is more reliable and stable, even if I have it on different circuit breakers and phases. There is also no problem connecting a wifi access point or router to the power line extender.

Adrian has a good point, and if that's a general issue in Australia, then the permanent cable will be the best option as he suggests.
but also remember the older models has more issues crossing circuits. The newer units also use the grounding wires so they tend to work better.

more information:
https://weakwifisolutions.com/can-i-use-a-powerline-adapter-in-my-garage/
https://weakwifisolutions.com/do-powerline-adapters-work-across-different-circuits-legs-phases-loops/
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Offline hxmiesa  
#12 Posted : 28 July 2021 21:16:42(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,295
Location: Spain
Power-line adapters solved my problem of weak WiFi coverage on the upper plant of the house.
I use a TP-Link AV1200 kit, which even gives 5G coverage.
I run a cable to the basement, where the Train-room and home-cinema room is located. I got the phone-company to install the cable, claiming that our only TV was in the basement, and they were contractually obligated to install 1 connection to the fibre-converter (which is located in the main living room on the main floor. ThumpUp

The fastest, most secure and most stable connection is always with a cable. So if you can do it, you should run a cable from you fibre-connection point to your train-room. If you can crimp your own cat5 or cat6 cable, you can run the cable a 100 meters. Get cat6, so that you are set for 1Gb. Power-adapters won't get you anywhere near that kind of performance.
The power-line adapters are very comfortable if you don't want to/can't run cables, but they make you lose a lot of network performance.


Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 29 July 2021 05:03:42(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,777
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Looks like we're going to install a cable and maybe I can do some of the labour to reduce the installation costs., its about 25m and it has to go through the roof and this is where the hours are spent, the technician charges A$ 80.00 / hour, so I could save myself some money and buying the cable may help to.
by installing a cable can I than install a second router to establish a WiFi for my Mobile Control II ?
thanks for all your input.

John












https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline hxmiesa  
#14 Posted : 29 July 2021 06:58:25(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,295
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
so I could save myself some money and buying the cable may help to.

Buying and installing long cables can be a little tricky, because you may have to apply the connectors yourself, and there are some strict guidelines as to how to insert the 4 coloured pairs of wires when dealing with very long cables. (It´s not trivial!)

Quote:
by installing a cable can I than install a second router to establish a WiFi for my Mobile Control II ?

Yesss! Definetly! -There are several routers out there with multiple ports for cables, and antenas for creating a new WiFi point.

To make installation and configuration easy, you can also opt for a cheap switch for the cable, and then connect a micro WiFi point to it, like the ones from TP-link or D-Link. They are about 20+ (twenty) bucks. TL-wr802n or DAP-2230.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline blid  
#15 Posted : 29 July 2021 13:12:08(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 186
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I used my CS1 Reloaded and the MC II with mini-accesspoint in the garden. Now the Reloaded is replaced by a EcoS 2.1 and is used for Z as well. Anyway the mini-accesspoint have a range of about 15 m outdoors. The only cable needed is for power. Why do you need internet/inhose computer by the layout? Don’t you have the EcoS by the layout? When you need to connect it to internet just carry it indoors. What am I missing? If you don’t have the mini or if the range is to short, just get a local wifi for the layout (ECoS and MC II but no internet). The EcoS can be DHCP server.
In my garage I have a wireless accesspoint that is just about capable to connect to my internet. It serves the CS2 and PC with TrainController for H0– but that is another story.
CS2, 60215, 4x60174, C-tracks, LDT HSI-88, TC Gold. OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC.
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Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 29 July 2021 13:46:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,448
I have wifi at home via wireless router from the fiber box and can use my Iphone and CS3.
I have also bluetooth.
It recommended maximum 10 metres by use wifi at home.
Be sure that there is free way of the wall at home when you use wifi.
CS3...H0...
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Offline river6109  
#17 Posted : 29 July 2021 14:04:01(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,777
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: blid Go to Quoted Post
I used my CS1 Reloaded and the MC II with mini-accesspoint in the garden. Now the Reloaded is replaced by a EcoS 2.1 and is used for Z as well. Anyway the mini-accesspoint have a range of about 15 m outdoors. The only cable needed is for power. Why do you need internet/inhose computer by the layout? Don’t you have the EcoS by the layout? When you need to connect it to internet just carry it indoors. What am I missing? If you don’t have the mini or if the range is to short, just get a local wifi for the layout (ECoS and MC II but no internet). The EcoS can be DHCP server.
In my garage I have a wireless accesspoint that is just about capable to connect to my internet. It serves the CS2 and PC with TrainController for H0– but that is another story.


I like to update my ECoS in the garage, I can upload pictures as well., instead of unplugging it, taken it upstairs, fiddle around with the internet, cables etc etc., this is what I've done before carrying it upstairs and updating it.,

my current Wifi router is about 30m away from the garage operation table. the small wifi connection box for the MCII doesn't reach 15m away., I've tried it before and it looses its signal.

John



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline David Dewar  
#18 Posted : 29 July 2021 15:12:27(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,012
Location: Scotland
I just use my CS3. Wi Fi not needed for anything I can think of other than an update which I rarely need. Anyway I just live in a cave so just having the leccy is a step forward from winding up the spring and letting the loco go round in circles until it stops.
All this wi fi stuff is good if you need it but I cant think why.
Anyway John good luck with the installation.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#19 Posted : 29 July 2021 15:31:40(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,755
Location: Paris, France
Hi
I forgot to mention: I had my wifi router screwed on my layout and discovered that it created phantom signals on occupation detection. So I had to move it away a couple of meters
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
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Offline blid  
#20 Posted : 29 July 2021 15:51:51(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 186
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
OK John. I understand.
Where we lived before I had the layout and a dedicated computer in the basement. To connect it to my office computer (and I think I had Internet by then) I bought an Ethernet cable 25 m with connectors. The speed requirement was moderate back then and I don’t think the cable was rated. Anyway, I used it a couple of month ago and it still works.
CS2, 60215, 4x60174, C-tracks, LDT HSI-88, TC Gold. OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC.
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Offline river6109  
#21 Posted : 29 July 2021 18:26:55(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,777
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I just use my CS3. Wi Fi not needed for anything I can think of other than an update which I rarely need. Anyway I just live in a cave so just having the leccy is a step forward from winding up the spring and letting the loco go round in circles until it stops.
All this wi fi stuff is good if you need it but I cant think why.
Anyway John good luck with the installation.


Dave,

Its not the ECoS, everything is fine with the ECoS, don't need anything for it, its the Mobile Control II which makes it more complicated, with a layout of that size the Mobile Control doesn't reach the signal around the layout as it can be carried without any cables, without it its sometimes a nightmare to control trains by trying to stop them., this is why the Mobile Control is handy to have but its no good if it doesn't work.
I've tried several orange wires but it didn't make any difference.

John

Edited by user 30 July 2021 01:15:22(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline PeFu  
#22 Posted : 29 July 2021 20:34:34(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 905
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I'm not worried about my ECoS but mainly the Mobile Control II, to get a WiFi signal in my garage., unless I'm off the track what you had in mind, the technician came today and the telephone line is useless as it doesn't carry any data, 2ndly I would need a cable going from the router about 25 meter to the garage and buy an extender, this installation could cost me abput A$ 600.00 and the other option is getting a WiFi which would reach distances above 25 meters at a cost of A$ 200.00
the other thing is how does the ECoS communicate with the Mobile Control II , is this what the Netgear powerline is for ?

John

Hi John
Why not use a local router (in your garage) with WiFi and connected to your Ecos but not to Internet. This works with a CS2 / CS3 and Mobile / Main station Apps (iPhone) so why not with your Ecos? Here the cost of a WiFi router is approx 50€ Too expensive?
Jean


I second John’s suggestion. If you don’t need Internet connection in your hobby room, you can install a wifi router and connect the ECoS (and other wired units) via Ethernet cable. Your mobile stations can then connect via wifi using the SSID created for this new LAN.

If you later want to connect your hobby room to Intenet via a 25 meter Ethernet cable to your house, I see two options:

(1) Keep your hobby room router. However, you will need some special ”subnet” settings in your router, as your Internet provider most probably only allows you to have only one main router.

(2) (Recommended) Replace your hobby room router with a switch (they are also cheap). You need to connect a wifi access point (AP) to the switch, via an Ethernet cable. Now you have one Internet connected LAN for the whole property.

Smile

Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
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Offline river6109  
#23 Posted : 30 July 2021 01:19:59(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,777
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Thank you all for your valued input,

Pe, what you are saying, I believe (?), is installing a wifi router (I've got a spare one) in the garage, I'll try this and see whats going to happen.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline PeFu  
#24 Posted : 30 July 2021 10:11:27(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 905
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you all for your valued input,

Pe, what you are saying, I believe (?), is installing a wifi router (I've got a spare one) in the garage, I'll try this and see whats going to happen.

John


Yes, I believe this is what ESU describes in sections 7.4.1 and 8.2 for ”Independent isolated operation”, with reference to the Mobile Control manual.

ThumpUp
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
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Offline MHJ87  
#25 Posted : 01 August 2021 03:32:05(UTC)
MHJ87

Australia   
Joined: 02/03/2020(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Hunter Valley
Hi John

I had the same problem and installed a ubiquiti nanostation m2.

It can be used in 2 configurations. Use 1 unit as an extender or 2 units as. Bridge. (Each unit was $169 when i purchased. One unit as an extender easily extended the signal 25 M..

have a look at

https://www.telcoantenna...-point-point-wifi-bridge

The company that I purchased the unit from is in Brisbane and were ver helpful.

Regards

Michael

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