Quick question for the DB signal gurus out there. In the following diagram I'm trying to confirm if a signal is needed at the red "?", and if so, which one?



Trains can enter "Track 4" from the west or from the branch line but will only ever depart heading east (either on the main line or the branch line). Given that no train will ever depart "track 4" heading west, is a signal needed at all? If yes, a departure signal or is there some other signal for this scenario?

Thanks in advance,
Roland

I was wondering if maybe there was some sort of "one way" sign that might be posted at the west end of that track similar to the road sign.

I didn't include stop/shunting signals in the diagram but yes they are in my plans and I would have one at the west end of track 4 if I don't have a main signal capable of sh0/sh1.

so if you are planning on Sh signals then you may as well do Hp0/1 Sh0/1 combinations. Since the Hp part will typically stay Hp0 you can save money by hard wiring it to Hp0 and save the cost of the decoder/switching gear.

I bought a defective semaphore signal at a train show that won't change, so it will be installed just outside a tunnel entrance of some one way track.

Same, same, but different:



Source:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrstraße

Consulting the German 2020 update of the German Eisenbahn-Signalordnung (ESO) doesn’t help, but since I was there, I post the link anyway:

https://www.eba.bund.de/...=publicationFile&v=3

Edited by user 12 July 2021 12:51:47(UTC)  | Reason: Forgot a bracket.

But: At the end of a train run there should be a stop signal, e.g., at least a red Sh2 panel on top of a buffer stop of a passenger terminus - see pic.

So, if a train is to stop and reverse on your track #4, there should be a red signal:
(1) to stop the train;
(2) to secure train movements on the lateral track #3.

And more recently in 2014 :



I guess amongst that rubble is the buffer stop.
But then, the driver was on the weed , see here:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/...iver-had-smoked-cannabis

All the reason why the Sommerfeldt construction manual (reflecting prototype railway engineering rules)
says not to put the terminal overhead masts directly behind a buffer stop !

Amazingly there was an almost identical incident at the same station the year before (2013) .

I think that one is at Melling IIRC.

The one I am thinking of is when the Hutt Valley peak hour commuter trains used an articulated English Electric loco and very old wooden coaches as there were not enough of the EMU trains to handle peak hour.

The story seemed to be that an unknown person had closed the cock on the brake line somewhere near the front of the train with the result that the only braking operating when the driver tried to stop was on the loco. Inevitably it overran the buffer stop and ended up with the front of the loco against the platform roof at the base of the platforms. Doesn't seem to be anything about it on the web at all.

I cannot say when, where, and why Schutzweichen are used, but they are not used everywhere. So without Schutzweichen it can still be prototypical.

well as Tom points out (and what I forgot to say), is that any talk of prototype depends on the era being reproduced. I don't recall when Schutzweichen become the norm.

I think that even though traffic in not intended to depart eastward from track 1 (on your layout) in the prototype, they would be very unlikely to ever rule that shunting can't happen there. If a vehicle can move in that direction (and all vehicles on a rail can do so - even without power) then the Schutzweiche makes sense.
Shutzweichen are probably more important for shunting than anything else.

Imagine a train is arriving from the east and is stopping on track 2.
At the same time a train in track 1 is departing westwards.
Should all be fine, but if the train on track 1 goes the wrong way... then it will run into the side of the arriving train. Shit happens (and more often in models!) This is preventable with the Schutzweiche.

So I maintain that:
a) given any turnout that joins two tracks together you will likely have a signal on each line protecting the other.
b) any track with a signal protecting a busy (mainline) will also have a Schutzweiche (space permitting) to physically prevent a rail vehicle from running through the red and getting onto the busy line.

If your aim is to make it look realistic/prototypical then what you place on the layout may exceed you actual model operations.

Good luck !

Tornesch northwest of Hamburg is a station where a single track branch line joins a double track mainline. Scroll down to the third photo to see how branch line traffic is kept from entering the main line - with a Sh2 panel planted on the railhead ... :

http://www.larsbrueggema...09-bahnhof-tornesch.html

And then the Sankt Michaelisdonn track plan (especially the "streamlined" 1986 one) with a arrangment which is very similar to yours makes it clear that a main signal is needed to keep branch line traffic off the double track mainline:

http://www.sporenplan.nl/html_de/index.html

Navigation path:

Gleispläne -> click on Germany ("D") -> Original Zeichnungen Schleswig-Holstein -> Sankt Michaelisdonn

The answer to that is quite clearly yes

It would be required in most if not all states in Australia because you wouldn't want a train to either block the mainline or another train to enter the siding if one was already standing
there

Depending on the duristiction there would be an enrty signal displaying HPO O stop and since you would have to proceed slowy over the point it would also have to pisplay HP 2

If there is shunting permit with in the block you would also need a shunt signal