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Offline hvc  
#1 Posted : 22 June 2021 14:24:01(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Hi all,

I have recently acquired the Loreley (Lorelei?) F-Zug passenger cars issued in H0 in the late 90s - Märklin 43209 and 43219.

IMG_1988D (1).jpg

IMG_1990D (1).jpg

(Some nice photos of the prototype here:
http://www.welt-der-mode...zug-loreley-express.html
)

I'm interested in extending the train with other matching (ish) cars from Märklin or Trix.

There is an old thread here
https://www.marklin-user...senger-train-information

where Macfire posts an extremely useful spreadsheet of relevant Märklin and Trix part numbers (reproduced below), but that was 13 years ago already. Also this post on stummiforum has useful info on baggage cars.

My question: does anyone have an update or info on any models that have been released after 2008?

In particular any skirted cars from Märklin or Trix that have the "DEUTSCHE BUNDESBAHN" labelling rather than "DB", and am also curious about locos - Br01, BR03 & V200 being a start point.

Macfire wrote:

2579056378_b5a2a6ea91.jpg

Edited by user 04 July 2021 00:46:09(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

- Herman
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Offline foumaro  
#2 Posted : 22 June 2021 14:39:01(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,357
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I am running this combo with trix 23337 baggage car.
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Offline mvd71  
#3 Posted : 23 June 2021 02:48:47(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,434
Location: Auckland,
Fleischmann also do a very nice baggage car that matches these coaches.
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Offline hvc  
#4 Posted : 23 June 2021 03:02:44(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
I am running this combo with trix 23337 baggage car.


Yes I see a few people are doing that, and you'll see Trix 23337 in Macfire's list above - it was released in 2005 - and I'm looking for one of those.

The reason for the post is that I'm wondering if anything new has been released after 2008 that might be included in a Loreley consist?

I do love the destination boards, but I can make my own and whack them on a Rheingold car, for example.

I read somewhere that one reason for choosing the name Loreley was to have a non-German sounding name to appeal to British passengers bound for Switzerland, which makes the "ß" in "Expreß" stand out for me on the destination board...

Screen Shot 2021-06-23 at 10.49.33 AM.jpg

- Herman
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Offline hvc  
#5 Posted : 23 June 2021 03:50:36(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Fleischmann also do a very nice baggage car that matches these coaches.


I think you mean Fleischmann 563004.

My question is for any relevant Marklin and Trix models released after 2008. Personally I like to keep a consist to be from the same manufacturer, because this avoids operational problems, coupler changes and changes in appearance.

Also, the Trix baggage car is skirted whereas the Fleischmann one is not. I don't know if a skirted baggage car is fantasy, but it does look nice.

- Herman
- Herman
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Offline mvd71  
#6 Posted : 23 June 2021 08:33:48(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,434
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Fleischmann also do a very nice baggage car that matches these coaches.


I think you mean Fleischmann 563004.

My question is for any relevant Marklin and Trix models released after 2008. Personally I like to keep a consist to be from the same manufacturer, because this avoids operational problems, coupler changes and changes in appearance.

Also, the Trix baggage car is skirted whereas the Fleischmann one is not. I don't know if a skirted baggage car is fantasy, but it does look nice.

- Herman


Yes, or the 5843K works too. But if having the skirting is a must then you need the trix model.

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Offline hvc  
#7 Posted : 24 June 2021 07:57:35(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
OK - so far no update from anyone - seems like there haven't been any suitable cars issued by Märklin or Trix after 2008?

Please chip in if you know different!

Back on the subject of destination boards...

Screen Shot 2021-06-24 at 3.53.51 PM.jpg

above photo is a crop from https://www.flickr.com/p...s/barkingbill/3323181738
- Herman
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 24 June 2021 14:08:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,352
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
OK - so far no update from anyone - seems like there haven't been any suitable cars issued by Märklin or Trix after 2008?

Please chip in if you know different!

Back on the subject of destination boards...

Screen Shot 2021-06-24 at 3.53.51 PM.jpg

above photo is a crop from https://www.flickr.com/p...s/barkingbill/3323181738


Do the tabs at the top indicate the same board in different languages?
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Offline hvc  
#9 Posted : 24 June 2021 14:44:49(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
OK - so far no update from anyone - seems like there haven't been any suitable cars issued by Märklin or Trix after 2008?

Please chip in if you know different!

Back on the subject of destination boards...

Screen Shot 2021-06-24 at 3.53.51 PM.jpg

above photo is a crop from https://www.flickr.com/p...s/barkingbill/3323181738


Do the tabs at the top indicate the same board in different languages?


I don't know, but I think they are different routes/directions. My read is that there are two tabs on the sign at the front which are "H" and "C", so that's the board for Hoek van Holland to Chiasso. Or maybe only the right tab is part of the front board, which makes it Chiasso ? I'm not sure.
- Herman
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Offline hvc  
#10 Posted : 25 June 2021 13:06:42(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Also found this poster from 1954...

https://historiek.net/st...-poort-van-europa/54893/

dd.jpg
- Herman
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Offline hvc  
#11 Posted : 27 June 2021 02:06:01(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Found a lot of references to the NS Class 1100s hauling express trains from Hoek v Holland in the 50s - I'm wondering where the change of loco would have been...

rheingold ej 2.jpg
- Herman
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Offline mike c  
#12 Posted : 27 June 2021 02:31:45(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,230
Location: Montreal, QC
The locomotive change was traditionally at Venlo/Kaldenkirchen for trains from Rotterdam and at Emmerich for trains from Amsterdam or Hoek v. Holland.
See: http://www.heinrich-hank...n/reisezuege/loreley.htm

Regards

Mike C
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Offline applor  
#13 Posted : 02 July 2021 03:42:04(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,503
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Fleischmann also do a very nice baggage car that matches these coaches.


I think you mean Fleischmann 563004.

My question is for any relevant Marklin and Trix models released after 2008. Personally I like to keep a consist to be from the same manufacturer, because this avoids operational problems, coupler changes and changes in appearance.

Also, the Trix baggage car is skirted whereas the Fleischmann one is not. I don't know if a skirted baggage car is fantasy, but it does look nice.

- Herman


Congratulations with your purchases, this is the period I also model just too bad you're not in Brisbane:)

The Trix 23337 is a fantasy as the Rheingold/Lorely used only rebuilt saloon baggage wagons. The correct baggage car can be found by Lilliput item 383911 with the correct tapered ends. I run the Lilliput with the other Trix wagons for my 50's Rheingold and have no operational issues.
Really it's up to you though of course and how correct you want to be. Part of the problem now is sourcing these items.

The stummi forum of course is the place to go for questions on the prototype, read about the baggage car here:

https://www.stummiforum....f-r-Loreley-Express.html

Here is a picture of the Rheingold with skirted passenger wagons showing the baggage car with the tapered ends like the Fleischmann.

Rheingold Hoek - Basle - Munich - Innsbruck Pacific 03.10, Bingerbrueck 1953 (Kurt Soelch).jpg

As for locomotives, I can only know for Rheingold for this period but Lorely would have been much the same. BR 03, BR 03.10, BR 01, BR 41 were all used.
You can see in the link you provided the Lorely being pulled by BR01.10 which is only available from Marklin as item 37104 Bellingrodt special edition.
I personally run my Rheingold with the Roco BR 03.10 in black, item 69284. There is also the steel blue version 69281 (which was just re-released I think) though not sure if it pulled the Rheingold/Lorely, rather the 'Gluckauf' and double decker prototypes.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline hvc  
#14 Posted : 03 July 2021 09:20:10(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post


Congratulations with your purchases, this is the period I also model just too bad you're not in Brisbane:)



Thanks for the useful post! Availbility is indeed the problem, which is why I was looking for info on any later models, but it looks like hunting it is...

In the pre-covid world I visited Brisbane sometimes - if we get back to something normal and I'm there again I'll drop you a line...

- Herman


- Herman
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Offline hvc  
#15 Posted : 03 July 2021 09:56:47(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The locomotive change was traditionally at Venlo/Kaldenkirchen for trains from Rotterdam and at Emmerich for trains from Amsterdam or Hoek v. Holland.
See: http://www.heinrich-hank...n/reisezuege/loreley.htm



Hi Mike,

I'm curious - I've never really thought about how the handovers would work, and it might be something interesting to model. I found the film below on the Rheingold services from HvH. The program is quite old, and has dreadful music but some nice images.

According to the voiceover in the video, the NS 1100/1200/1300 would haul the train as far as Arnhem prior to 1966, when the line from Arnhem from Emmerich was electrified. In the video they show a V200 hooking up to the train in Arnhem.

It also raised the question for me of what happened after electrification when the Dutch electric locos crossed the border - I think the The Netherlands has 1,500 V DC has and Germany has 15 kV AC - do they run the Dutch system to (say) Emmerich, and how do they change to a German electric loc?



- Herman
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#16 Posted : 03 July 2021 11:24:50(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
Not quite what you were looking for: Modern day swap of electric locos at Bad Bentheim for Amsterdam-Berlin traffic.

Pix:
https://www.lok-report.d...ahnhof-bad-bentheim.html

Vid:


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Offline Alsterstreek  
#17 Posted : 03 July 2021 11:37:38(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
Some more relevant 1958 loco exchange data regarding the F-163/164 "Loreley":

Hoek van Holland - Venlo: NS1100/1200/1300
Venlo - Köln: DB 23, maybe also 03
Köln - Ludwigshafen: DB V 200 (Bw Frankfurt-Griesheim)
Ludwigshafen - Basel Bad Bf: DB E 10
Basel Bad Bf - Basel SBB: DB ?
Source: http://www.heinrich-hank...ildung/1958_db_00164.htm

A nice diagram reflecting the 1958 situation of the the F-163/164 "Loreley":
F164-163-Loreley-Zugbildung-Skizze.png
Source: https://db58.de/2011/03/...3-f-164-loreley-express/
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Offline PJMärklin  
#18 Posted : 03 July 2021 11:56:17(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,983
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mike,
I'm curious - I've never really thought about how the handovers would work, and it might be something interesting to model. I found the film below on the Rheingold services from HvH. The program is quite old, and has dreadful music but some nice images.

According to the voiceover in the video, the NS 1100/1200/1300 would haul the train as far as Arnhem prior to 1966, when the line from Arnhem from Emmerich was electrified. In the video they show a V200 hooking up to the train in Arnhem.

It also raised the question for me of what happened after electrification when the Dutch electric locos crossed the border - I think the The Netherlands has 1,500 V DC has and Germany has 15 kV AC - do they run the Dutch system to (say) Emmerich, and how do they change to a German electric loc?


Thanks for the video Herman,

I do like the conductor's uniform in the closing moments !OhMyGod

PJ

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Offline PJMärklin  
#19 Posted : 03 July 2021 12:06:31(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,983
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Not quite what you were looking for: Modern day swap of electric locos at Bad Bentheim for Amsterdam-Berlin traffic.


Hello Ak,

Thank you for the nice video of the loco changeover.

In particular I was interested in the various pantograph manoeuvres of the Netherlands and German locomotives.

Regards,

Philip
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Offline hvc  
#20 Posted : 03 July 2021 14:13:58(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Here's an electric lok changeover at Emmerich in 1987 - the DB lok making way for the NS 1100 to complete the train's journey to Amsterdam.

Photos from
https://www.nicospilt.com/index_Lok1100_2.htm

I remain curious about how this is done - as far as I know the Dutch and German loks run on different current type and voltage...

dia5182_groot.JPG
dia5183_groot.JPG
- Herman
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#21 Posted : 03 July 2021 15:55:46(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post

I remain curious about how this is done - as far as I know the Dutch and German loks run on different current type and voltage...

The overhead catenary section in the station can be switched from 1500 V DC (NS) to 15000 V 16 2/3 Hz AC (DB) and vice versa. This requires the loco pantograph manoeuvres mentioned by Philip.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#22 Posted : 04 July 2021 00:55:30(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost

It is always a pleasure to visit his site, isn’t it? Wonderful photos, good anecdotes and some refreshed memories, too.

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Offline hvc  
#23 Posted : 04 July 2021 00:56:21(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post

I remain curious about how this is done - as far as I know the Dutch and German loks run on different current type and voltage...

The overhead catenary section in the station can be switched from 1500 V DC (NS) to 15000 V 16 2/3 Hz AC (DB) and vice versa. This requires the loco pantograph manoeuvres mentioned by Philip.


OK, now I have questions... if the catenary is switched, why do the locs have to temporarily lower their pantos at the platform?

My simple-minded way of thinking about it is:
  1. Station switches platform and runaround to DB power
  2. DB loco enters, unhooks, and leaves platform bound back to the German side
  3. Station switches platform to NS power
  4. NS loco enters, hooks up, and leaves platform bound for Dutch side
But that doesn't require any panto maneuvers - there's no power switching while the loco is at the platform - so what is going on? Is it because the other loco is doing something in the switched zone at that time, or some kind of safety procedure?
- Herman
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#24 Posted : 04 July 2021 01:18:02(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
My simple-minded way of thinking about it is:
  1. Station switches platform and runaround to DB power
  2. DB loco enters, unhooks, and leaves platform bound back to the German side
  3. Station switches platform to NS power
  4. NS loco enters, hooks up, and leaves platform bound for Dutch side
But that doesn't require any panto maneuvers - there's no power switching while the loco is at the platform ...


And that’s exactly what is happening in this video:


What puzzled me on Nico Spilt’s site is to see a German diesel switcher remove and shunt the Dutch electric loco in 1977. Maybe, since electrification took place only one year earlier, the procedure wasn’t that sophisticated or Bad Bentheim wasn’t equipped for switching voltages at that time.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#25 Posted : 04 July 2021 01:32:27(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,352
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post

What puzzled me on Nico Spilt’s site is to see a German diesel switcher remove and shunt the Dutch electric loco in 1977. Maybe, since electrification took place only one year earlier, the procedure wasn’t that sophisticated or Bad Bentheim wasn’t equipped for switching voltages at that time.


Another possibility is that only the station platform catenary could be switched, and there was no siding the loco could drive itself to, so a diesel switcher was used to park it until required for a trip back whence it came.

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Offline hvc  
#26 Posted : 04 July 2021 02:48:28(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
My simple-minded way of thinking about it is:
  1. Station switches platform and runaround to DB power
  2. DB loco enters, unhooks, and leaves platform bound back to the German side
  3. Station switches platform to NS power
  4. NS loco enters, hooks up, and leaves platform bound for Dutch side
But that doesn't require any panto maneuvers - there's no power switching while the loco is at the platform ...


What puzzled me on Nico Spilt’s site is to see a German diesel switcher remove and shunt the Dutch electric loco in 1977. Maybe, since electrification took place only one year earlier, the procedure wasn’t that sophisticated or Bad Bentheim wasn’t equipped for switching voltages at that time.


Maybe doing this just allowed a faster change, because the DB loco didn't have to wait as long? Or maybe the platform track has switchable power, but the runaround track does not?

dia3220.JPG
https://www.nicospilt.com/index_Lok1100_2.htm
- Herman
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Offline mike c  
#27 Posted : 04 July 2021 07:05:24(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,230
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post

I remain curious about how this is done - as far as I know the Dutch and German loks run on different current type and voltage...

The overhead catenary section in the station can be switched from 1500 V DC (NS) to 15000 V 16 2/3 Hz AC (DB) and vice versa. This requires the loco pantograph manoeuvres mentioned by Philip.


OK, now I have questions... if the catenary is switched, why do the locs have to temporarily lower their pantos at the platform?

My simple-minded way of thinking about it is:
  1. Station switches platform and runaround to DB power
  2. DB loco enters, unhooks, and leaves platform bound back to the German side
  3. Station switches platform to NS power
  4. NS loco enters, hooks up, and leaves platform bound for Dutch side
But that doesn't require any panto maneuvers - there's no power switching while the loco is at the platform - so what is going on? Is it because the other loco is doing something in the switched zone at that time, or some kind of safety procedure?


I don't know much about the procedure between NS and DB. I did observe the goings on in Forbach when I travelled from Frankfurt to Paris in 1985 as well as Domodossola each time I passed through, which also involve differing voltage systems.

In order to protect the locomotive, the train normally coasts into the switchable section of the station. Once stopped, it is uncoupled and then the locomotive is moved to another track by a shunter, where the power is switched to the appropriate section and the locomotive then moves to the holding area within that railways section of the station.

Here is a video of the goings on at Chiasso:
(4 Parts)

Here is a video of the goings on at Domodossola:


This is what happens when you connect to the wrong system:


Regards

Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#28 Posted : 04 July 2021 21:09:32(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,230
Location: Montreal, QC
I thought that I would add this link, which has some info about border stations, including Emmerich and Venlo:

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/stations.php

http://bueker.net/trains...ng/stations_emmerich.php
http://bueker.net/trainspotting/stations_venlo.php

Regards

Mike C
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Offline hvc  
#29 Posted : 05 July 2021 10:17:39(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I thought that I would add this link, which has some info about border stations, including Emmerich and Venlo:

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/stations.php

http://bueker.net/trains...ng/stations_emmerich.php
http://bueker.net/trainspotting/stations_venlo.php

Regards

Mike C


Thanks Mike - this is very interesting, and (not surprisingly) there are different approaches to the electrical system changeover. Also, where there are areas that can be switched between electrical systems, I'm imagining the whole lot might be switched at once - so say the central platform tracks and runaround track at Venlo would all be DB or NL at a given time, which would explain use of the diesel shunter in the photo above.

From http://www.sporenplan.nl/ via the site linked above:
stations_venlo_map.gif

- Herman
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#30 Posted : 05 July 2021 11:09:08(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
My humble contribution: According to the German Wikipedia entry on the Bad Bentheim railway station practically all catenary sections above the station tracks can be switched individually to facilitate operation.

Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahnhof_Bad_Bentheim


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Offline hvc  
#31 Posted : 05 July 2021 11:28:05(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
My humble contribution: According to the German Wikipedia entry on the Bad Bentheim railway station practically all catenary sections above the station tracks can be switched individually to facilitate operation.

Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahnhof_Bad_Bentheim




Interesting - I then continue to find the use of the diesel shunter confusing and interesting. Also both appealing and tricky to model...

- Herman
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#32 Posted : 05 July 2021 11:31:07(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
http://bueker.net/trainspotting/stations.php

Awesome website !
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Offline applor  
#33 Posted : 29 July 2021 00:19:30(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,503
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Just a follow up post on the Trix 23337 as I came across a post which highlighted the specific issue and thought it would be of interest:


(Was there ever really a blue apron van as a model for the Trix 23337? In the online library, this is incorrectly marked as a 37, although it is clearly an apron wagon ...)


Yes and no!

The "105 885 Bln / Köl / Mü" was a "Pw4ü-40", of which only one was actually built and which has never been made in steel blue.

The “105 060 Kar”, on the other hand, was a “SalonMaschPw4ük-37” that was converted by the Deutsche Bundesbahn into “Pw4üe-37/52”, specifically for use in the “Rheingold” F-train!

The only false claim by Trix is ​​that it is a "Pw4ü-37" ...

It is questionable whether the "SalonMaschPw4ük-37" or "Pw4üe-37/52" actually looks like the "Pw4ü-40".
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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