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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 16 June 2021 19:09:38(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,438
Confused
Lenz digital did confirmed a new upgrade to version 4.0 and present 69 functions.
Who the **** wants so many functions in a stupid digital system?? LOL
I mean...there is no name of the functions and or icon symbols.
It shows only numbers of the functions 1-69.
Waste of the time to have this system.
But i am courage about members here what you like this and think about to control all those functions?
CS3...H0...
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 16 June 2021 19:35:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,261
Location: DE-NW
DCC supports 32000 functions per loco. Who needs it?

I usually only need 5 to 10 functions per loco. But if a new loco has an interesting function at position 42 then I'll be longing for a controller that breaks the 32-function limit.

Re-mapping the functions is decoder-specific and often very complicated. Otherwise a controller with only 16 functions would be sufficient for me.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 16 June 2021 20:03:41(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,296
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Re-mapping the functions is decoder-specific and often very complicated. Otherwise a controller with only 16 functions would be sufficient for me.


When I first heard that the cs1 would have 16 functions for mfx i couldn't work out what they would all be used for. I think I have been proved right with some of the silly sounds that Marklin have fitted to some locos, some seem to be 'just because there are functions available'.

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Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 17 June 2021 00:09:22(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,332
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
While I can sympathize with some of the comments here I think they are generally naïve , blinked and inward looking.

Just because you cannot see the potential does not mean that a potential does not exist, and that someone else might utilize it.

In a related point the mfx protocol not only allows for many functions but there is provision for a qualitative value of that function (think volume, brightness, servo position). The fact that this has not been implemented can be another topic for navel gazing

The 16 function mFx , at the time, was seen by some to be more of a me-to reaction to the 12 functions readily available in other decoders.
This was a marketing imperative, even if the power from the decoder could barely cope with motor, lights, telex and smoke.

As to mapping, this was (is) a valuable solution. However IMHO you should not care what function number an item is!
If you want to blow the horn - press the horn icon (the controller sends the horn ID and the decoder finds the function)

It is not what you have got at your disposal, it is how you choose to use it ...
But if you do not have it at your disposal, you cannot use it.
Peter
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Offline dickinsonj  
#5 Posted : 17 June 2021 01:57:08(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,447
Location: United States
I think people are reacting to their personal experience with Märklin models with 32 functions. In the world of modern electronics that upgrade is not really all that costly, so why not? Well maybe because there is no immediate need for more than 16 in my experience.

Although the new function count is interesting from a technical perspective, they do not often add any meaningful functionality, at least so far. I think that having the extra functions will lead to better models in time though and Peter is right in pointing out that it will never be used unless it exists. The pressure is now up to the model makers to find non-trivial uses for the extra functions, and not just add silly extra sounds.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#6 Posted : 17 June 2021 02:07:28(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,071
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
..

Just because you cannot see the potential does not mean that a potential does not exist, and that someone else might utilize it.

In a related point the mfx protocol not only allows for many functions but there is provision for a qualitative value of that function (think volume, brightness, servo position). ..

The 16 function mFx , at the time, .... was a marketing imperative, ..

..


Hi Peter,
On the last sentence you are absolutely correct.
Buyer perception is important, so claims of superiority are important for the manufacturer.

My take on controller/decoder functionality is very much bounded by practice.
If I have 8 function buttons on a controller, I will tend to use only those 8.
Use of a Shift key to access another function (in the heady environment of running model trains) is not acceptable.
Also not acceptable for me is having to change screens to access solenoid or other digital devices.
A separate controller should be provided.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 17 June 2021 06:58:41(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,438
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post

The pressure is now up to the model makers to find non-trivial uses for the extra functions, and not just add silly extra sounds.


Like Märklin decides to add fart sounds in the toilet?

LOL LOL

CS3...H0...
Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 17 June 2021 12:41:09(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,738
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Confused
Lenz digital did confirmed a new upgrade to version 4.0 and present 69 functions.
Who the **** wants so many functions in a stupid digital system?? LOL
I mean...there is no name of the functions and or icon symbols.
It shows only numbers of the functions 1-69.
Waste of the time to have this system.
But i am courage about members here what you like this and think about to control all those functions?


Hi Goofy

While there is some sense to your observation, I remember many years ago I was looking for a TV set with a remote (back in 1976). The seller (who thought he was very bright) asked me if I was disabled. Now who would buy a TV w/o a remote?

So things changed and 25 years ago there was only 4 functions on digital locos and it was clearly not enough. I am sure we will find a way to use the new potential
Imagination is the key.
Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
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Offline hxmiesa  
#9 Posted : 17 June 2021 19:00:23(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,286
Location: Spain
As one of the richest men in the world once said;
"640K ought to be enough for anybody".
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 17 June 2021 20:32:00(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,296
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
As one of the richest men in the world once said;
"640K ought to be enough for anybody".


I believe it has been shown that he never ever said that.

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Offline Purellum  
#11 Posted : 17 June 2021 21:47:14(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,359
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

As the topic title says: 69 functions!!!

I can confirm that this is correct; but I'm a bit surprised you got to be that old before you realized that Laugh

Per.

P.S: I would probably have used "69 works"; but I know what you mean LOL

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline lgbjohann  
#12 Posted : 18 June 2021 04:53:29(UTC)
lgbjohann

United States   
Joined: 28/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 22
BigGrin LOL
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
As one of the richest men in the world once said;
"640K ought to be enough for anybody".


John
Offline hxmiesa  
#13 Posted : 18 June 2021 06:36:10(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,286
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
As one of the richest men in the world once said;
"640K ought to be enough for anybody".

I believe it has been shown that he never ever said that.

I think you should have put a smiley after that statement, as you negate the point that I am making...
It´s more like "16 functions ought to be enough for anybody".
Don´t you get it??? ;-)


PS: Maybe the man could have said it in private, talking about the weekly allowance for his children...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline marklinist5999  
#14 Posted : 18 June 2021 13:49:45(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 970
Location: Michigan, Troy
16 doesn't cover all functions of some newer models though. We wanted sound, etc. How many functions are you willing to do without on your phones for example?
An old desk/wall phone only had a dial, number buttons, and a reciever/mike/hang up function. The #, and * buttons were added to access certain long distance or call waiting and or multi party conversing.
Offline Goofy  
#15 Posted : 18 June 2021 19:46:35(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,438
I did read that severals Lenz user did got some bug problems after upgraded version and decides to change back to same version before and the system works normal again.
I don´t know what the real problem are.

Blink
CS3...H0...
Online river6109  
#16 Posted : 19 June 2021 02:24:01(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,736
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
My 2 cents: ESU decoders have at the moment 31 functions and I have trouble filling them all including Aux functions., I usually use 7 Aux fucntions + 2 light functions but have to delete ome of the sound slot functions to be able to use all the Aux functions, I'malready using the drive and stop functions to activate cab lights and short airhorn on diesel & electric loco.
Its not to say I;m using all 31 functions as I would have difficulties remembering them all even with icins displayed., with steam locos like moke generwtor, short whistle, uncoupling sound, gear light and smoke box sll csn be included in the sound slot functions., even the piston blow out can be programmed at the beginning of a steam loco sarting to move.
automatic station announcements are not suitable when you have station with several platforms or a train is driving through a station.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Goofy  
#17 Posted : 19 June 2021 08:09:11(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,438
A digital system like Lenz shows only numbers of the functions on the cab control.
In this case you are force to have paper to write up names of the functions by check what they stand for.
To read up all or to find 69 of the functions are boring at once by use Lenz system.
I believe Märklin CS3 are good system where there is icon symbols to read at once, which makes more fun and easy way to control digital functions.
How ever i wish it could have been done with the names of the functions too.
69 digital functions with the Lenz system!?? Blink
How fun is that?? Huh
CS3...H0...
Offline cookee_nz  
#18 Posted : 19 June 2021 10:02:51(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,668
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
As one of the richest men in the world once said;
"640K ought to be enough for anybody".


I believe it has been shown that he never ever said that.



Yes Alan, along the lines of the way Thomas J. Watson (founder of IBM) is reported to have stated there was maybe a worldwide market for 5 computers.

That statement too has not been conclusively proven.

Take these with a grain of salt.....

https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/12-hilariously-wrong-tech-predictions.html


Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline aftpriv  
#19 Posted : 08 July 2021 16:53:17(UTC)
aftpriv

Germany   
Joined: 16/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1
Location: Bayern, Main-Kinzig-Kreis
Hi Guys

One needs to differentiate between physical (activating lights aso) and virtual functions (activating sounds aso)!

On H0-Locos there is nowadays a limit of physical functions (PluX22 defines only 9, however ZIMO uses also the Index-Pin as function pin), so there are altogether 10 off

However, a decoder could have as many virtual functions as the program provides for. How to actuate them above the present available 28 (32) I have no idea, may be we should ask Lenz to please explain.

Best regards Alf
Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 08 July 2021 17:16:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,261
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: aftpriv Go to Quoted Post
How to actuate them above the present available 28 (32) I have no idea, may be we should ask Lenz to please explain.
The Uhlenbrock Intellibox II can control 32768 functions per loco address.

Up to three SUSI boards can be controlled by one decoder, adding more physical outputs. I have a Märklin class 103 where AUX1 to AUX4 are not used, while 5 light functions are controlled via SUSI. So four physical functions are still free for custom expansions.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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