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Offline Z-nerd  
#1 Posted : 29 August 2013 08:48:30(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
I did a test yesterday. I cleaned the tracks and the loco Märklin 8800.

Started the loco and let it run at ca 75% speed with 2 waggons on a T2 SET outer oval (see photo.)


The loco ran for 9 minutes and 27 seconds before it stopped



It took that time to collect enough dirt on the wheels to stop (in a turnout)

For how long is it possible to run a 3 axle loco before it stops due to dirty wheels/tracks ?

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H0
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 29 August 2013 09:36:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,293
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Z-nerd Go to Quoted Post
For how long is it possible to run a 3 axle loco before it stops due to dirty wheels/tracks?
Where does the dirt come from? Eliminate the dirt and the problem is solved.
Use a clean room (filtered air) to set a new world record.

Dirt on the wheels can come from the rails or from the air or from the loco (or was already on the wheels). Or it could come from electric sparks.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 29 August 2013 09:41:06(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,775
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi,

I have no experience of Z gauge, but my HO locos will run until they need oiling. The longer they run the cleaner the tracks and wheels seem to get. Of course Z gauge is 2 rail DC and much smaller, so different mechanical factors apply.

Have you made just one test? I would carry out the test at least 5 times and get an average duration of run to have any scientific meaning to the results. You might find that your one test is much shorter or longer than the average.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
H0
Offline Z-nerd  
#4 Posted : 29 August 2013 13:05:41(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
I did a second test on my Blumenau layout. Same loco & 1 waggon.

Loco and tracks cleaned before start.

UserPostedImage
P8296904 by Joner1769, on Flickr
UserPostedImage
P8296906 by Joner1769, on Flickr

Result: The 8800 loco ran for 62 minutes before it stopped. After 45 minutes it slowed down remarkably, then it continued to slow down until it stopped.

When I picked up the loco it was very hot, so I think it stopped because of unsufficient lubrication, not because of dirty wheels. I will do another test after cleaning and oiling the loco agian.
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xxupH0
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 29 August 2013 13:58:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,293
Location: DE-NW
Oil on the collector can lead to slow running while the motor gets very hot.
A drop of oil at the right place can solve running problems - at the wrong place it will cause problems.

Too much oil is a problem - it will always end up at places where it does harm.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Wal  
#6 Posted : 29 August 2013 14:13:39(UTC)
Wal

Australia   
Joined: 07/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Sydney
First ever post...but I value the comments on this forum. I run Marklin Z locos digitally using Velmo decoders and a trix mobile station. I run for hours at a time without any major issues. Trains run at prototypically slower, smoother speeds rather than flat out using analogue control. Best thing I ever did was to update to digital. And I agree with the comments re oil.

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Offline 79sunrunner  
#7 Posted : 01 September 2013 05:47:39(UTC)
79sunrunner

United States   
Joined: 01/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: Chicago
If these little engines are getting hot after a short while of running, then how did maerklin do thier famous world record z scale run back in 1978? The engine run non stop for almost 1000km if I remember correctly. Maybe Maerklin knows something that we dont Flapper
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 01 September 2013 09:28:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,293
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: 79sunrunner Go to Quoted Post
Maybe Maerklin knows something that we dont Flapper
Maybe they know how to grease the loco - no oil were it shouldn't be.

"In 1978, a Märklin Z scale locomotive pulling six coaches made its entry into the Guinness Book of World Records by running nonstop 1,219 hours, and travelling a distance of 720 km before the train stopped due to failure of the motor."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_scale#History
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline steventrain  
#9 Posted : 01 September 2013 11:15:55(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,394
Location: United Kingdom
I have the same problem with running stop after 5-6 minutes so I cleaning wheels and tracks before running stop again few minutes later.

I return the Z starter set 81564 for refund and I am happy stick with HO scale.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Z-nerd  
#10 Posted : 01 September 2013 11:51:06(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Originally Posted by: 79sunrunner Go to Quoted Post
If these little engines are getting hot after a short while of running, then how did maerklin do thier famous world record z scale run back in 1978? The engine run non stop for almost 1000km if I remember correctly. Maybe Maerklin knows something that we dont Flapper


I have my doubts about this publicity stunt. If they recommend lubrication and "service" after 20 hours, how could this loco run for that long ?

UserPostedImage
P9016910 by Joner1769, on Flickr


I avoid all kinds of oils now. I have realized that Moly grease is better. Oil tends to get stuck to the cogwheels and it splashes on the tracks so they get dirty.

UserPostedImage
P9016912 by Joner1769, on Flickr
Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 01 September 2013 12:11:11(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,775
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Lubrication requirements for any given machine are different depending on many different factors, such as temperature, operating speed, durability, etc.

I have no doubt that, for the record attempt, Marklin engineers worked out the best type of lubricant for working longer at one fixed speed, and that that lubricant was very likely not the one they recommend to customers for general use.

Other than when I have overdone the oiling (my fault) I usually find that the Marklin oil works OK for my HO models. Sadly I have no experience of Z scale.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 01 September 2013 13:13:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,293
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Z-nerd Go to Quoted Post
If they recommend lubrication and "service" after 20 hours, how could this loco run for that long?
How long would it run if you were allowed to make maintenance after 20 hours (or once a day)?

In the past, Märklin offered oil only and therefore they recommended to oil the worm drives. Oil is too thin and won't last long.

In recent manuals they recommend Trix grease for worm drives (at least with H0 models).

Who knows what special greases they used to prepare that world record loco. And who knows how much noise the loco made on the last rounds before the motor died ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Z-nerd  
#13 Posted : 01 September 2013 18:25:35(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
I have the same problem with running stop after 5-6 minutes so I cleaning wheels and tracks before running stop again few minutes later.

I return the Z starter set 81564 for refund and I am happy stick with HO scale.


No, it would be a pity if you returned your z train.


Z-scale trains are more demanding, cleaning of tracks and wheels is of course more important than in H0-scale.

To solve your problem:

Disassemble the loco and put the wheels and cogwheels in some kind of alcohol. I used fluid for windscreenwipers.

Assemble the cleaned parts.

Put a tiny blob of grease on one of the cogwheels, apply with a needle.

Clean the wheels and tracks with spirits.


Offline Dimi194  
#14 Posted : 01 June 2021 01:40:09(UTC)
Dimi194

Australia   
Joined: 21/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 367
Location: South Coast, NSW
Reviving a dead thread here but I have encountered the same issue with my starter set BR 89 - it runs for a few mins before slowing down and stopping! Who knew it was so fiddly! I have a decent amount of N Scale Thomas stuff from Bachmann and Tomix and they run fine for hours on end before needing cleans :/
Author of the gritty sci-fi novel 'Stories of Earth: WWIII' (featuring an awesome train chase)
Avid YouTuber (XtremeTrainz and TrainzXtreme) and train person!
Offline wildstix  
#15 Posted : 01 June 2021 11:46:46(UTC)
wildstix

Indonesia   
Joined: 12/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: Jakarta Raya, Jakarta
Originally Posted by: Dimi194 Go to Quoted Post
Reviving a dead thread here but I have encountered the same issue with my starter set BR 89 - it runs for a few mins before slowing down and stopping! Who knew it was so fiddly! I have a decent amount of N Scale Thomas stuff from Bachmann and Tomix and they run fine for hours on end before needing cleans :/


I have an old 8800 BR 89, probably from the early 80s and because of that reason, I will not do this experiment 🤨 . But...
I revived my locos this year and my BR 89 is actually a fighter! It needed a push when it's cool, but once warmed up, it just seemingly run faster and faster, making me happy and worry at the same time. The longest I let it run was 20 minutes, without any signs of slowing down, and after that, I can't even touch it because it was so hot!
Oka aka W. Kapriandi
8800 Dampflok BR 89
8875 Diesellok BR 216
8892 Schnellzuglokomotiven
88484 Elektrolokomotive Re 14
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