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Offline George Culliver  
#1 Posted : 29 March 2021 06:30:30(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hello everyone, it is a very long time since I was on this forum.
I have a large layout... about 45 sqm and have successfully used 60215 CS2 with 3 feedback modules 6088 for many years.
I just bought a CS3 Plus and with initial power-up everything was fine and the 2 control stations worked and the trains controlled with the contact tracks working.
Then the new CS3 wanted to 'update' by showing a red dot on the controller. When I push the update button ( though not connected to internet or USB stick, then unit performed an 'update' on itself.
From that moment on, I cannot get the CS3 to 'see' the 6088 feedback modules, and the trains no longer control.
If I uncheck the auxillary box on the CS2, and reboot it with the interlink cable disconnected, then reboot, the CS2 once again can read the feedback.

I am now at a complete loss as to how I can get a 'patch' for the firmware to make all the system operational.
I have downloaded the latest updates for both CS3 and CS2 from Marklin and installed. Still does not work with the 2 stations joined together.


Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 29 March 2021 12:13:32(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,756
Location: Paris, France
Hi George

Here is the little I know on my CS3 and my 2 CS2s
* CS3 red dot indicates the need for an update and is triggered when being online (but the update software AFAIK is not loaded yet).
* CS3 can only be updated online or by attaching a pre-loaded USB stick (with the tgz file for the update)
* During updates (or update attempts) some parameters may change by accident (Märklin s/w error) so you need to check the address and bus lengths and the power source setting (60061, 60101 or xx)
* you may need to re-run an update to your CS3

Note: when I switched from CS2 to CS3, I modified the sensor layout so that the Link 88 I had on the CS2 is now connected to the CS3 and all old M88 (6088 & 60880) are connected to bus 3 of the link 88. This requires re-arranging all the addresses but it works fine
Here is my layout on the CS3 with version 2.2.0 (5)
cs3 Edit Track list.png
Note: I just updated the CS2 (4.2.13 (14) but have not tested the improvements in linking with a CS3
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline George Culliver  
#3 Posted : 29 March 2021 12:34:05(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Bonjoir JeanB,
Thank you for your reply. I don't have a Link88, only the 3 units 6088 connected to CS2. I am powering the track from the CS2 still.
The system worked fine for a short while, until the red dots ( or I first noticed) appeared and I was tricked into doing the update. I was not connected to internet or a USB at that time, and the CS3 + did an update "on it's self". I thought it strange that the system also told me I needed to update a BOOSTER....... which I do not have.

So I have ended up with some change in the firmware that is preventing the 6088 feedback contacts being'visible' to the system. I don't know how to get back to the 'as per factory new CS3' settings. I can disconnect the CS3 + and then reboot the CS2 and the 6088 units work again OK.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 29 March 2021 12:58:50(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,756
Location: Paris, France
Hi George
On my CS3 (60226) by selecting the RESTORE function, I can select the Leer.zip (empty.zip) function which I assume will bring the CS3 to its default factory setting.
IMO, if you still have the red dot, it means you don't have the latest version (2.2.0 (5).
You can check your version number by going to System/settings/CS3/Info (bottom of page)
cs3_System Parameters_CS3 Info.png
Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline George Culliver  
#5 Posted : 29 March 2021 13:13:55(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Thank you Jean, The red dots disappeared and I have installed the latest (28March21) updates from Maerklin for both the CS3 + and CS2, but this did not solve to problem of not 'reading' the 6088 contacts.
I will try to find the Leer.zip you suggest.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 29 March 2021 14:39:56(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,334
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
I thought it strange that the system also told me I needed to update a BOOSTER....... which I do not have.


Umm, this may mean it is trying to update the GPU (Gleis Processing Unit) which is the internal booster that drives the track from the central station. When doing a cs update there is an additional update it does at the end to update the GPU. Then if there are additional boosters on the CAN bus it will update them.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline George Culliver  
#7 Posted : 31 March 2021 06:25:29(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Thank you Jean, your suggestion to try the Leer.zip sent everything to empty, including the data. I then reinstalled the latest updates and refreshed the data from the CS2 backup that I made first.
Long story short....... I now have it all working, although I have found that I must turn on the CS2 first, and if there is a short circuit shutdown ( as from a derailing event ) I need to re-initialise the feedbacks.

I now need to work out how to link my CS3 / CS2 system to my PC computer. This seems to be difficult and I can't find the APP for it in the webstore. I don't want to use my phone.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 31 March 2021 13:09:07(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,756
Location: Paris, France
Hi George
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
I now need to work out how to link my CS3 / CS2 system to my PC computer. This seems to be difficult and I can't find the APP for it in the webstore. I don't want to use my phone.

You must use a router (or your home internet box with multiple RJ45 plugs)
I am doing it using a Wifi router and I first used DHCP (a feature of the router to assign addresses to each user- CS2, CS3)

Then I noted those addresses (assigned to the CS2 and CS3 by the router) and switched them into manual mode. This is to avoid later unwanted address changes.
If you are using a s/w like Rocrail, the only this it needs is the Master unit (In your case I believe this is the CS2)

What app to use: with the CS2, use the Märklin-provided app (cs2.exe). With the CS3, use the VNC Viewer (free app) and create a connection with the IP address of your CS3 followed by:5900 (in my case 192.168.0.23:5900)

Attention: I have found that a Wifi router must not be too close to your layout so that the high frequency does not trigger phantom detections in the S88 system
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline George Culliver  
#9 Posted : 31 March 2021 13:15:11(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hello Jean,
I have a 'switch' unit with multiple RJ45 connections so I can directly connect my computer and the 2 control stations in. My CS3+ is the master, and the CS2 is now a slave. This happens automatically when they are joined with the marklin cable.

I don't yet have any software for the computer, and I was under the impression that Marklin have such a software. I have heard of Rocrail but know nothing about it.
Offline George Culliver  
#10 Posted : 31 March 2021 13:27:46(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hi jean, I just downloaded the VNC Viewer as you suggested. I will have a play to try finding the OP address......
Thanks, chat again later.
Ed (George)
Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 31 March 2021 14:16:19(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,756
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
This happens automatically when they are joined with the marklin cable.

Hi George
I am surprised here is the little I know:
* the cable 60123 is not symetric (one side for the master and the other for the slave
* the 60215 (CS2) can be master or slave as you wish
* the 60216 (CS3+) can be master or slave as you wish

So long story short: it all depends on which side of the cable 60123 you plug on which unit
60123.png
I think the CS3 being master is much better (much more processing power) but the CS2 can also be.
In the long run, it is better to connect your S88s to the Master unit (contacts scanning speed).
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline George Culliver  
#12 Posted : 31 March 2021 14:26:57(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Yes, I have the CS3+ as the master, although I still feed the tracks through the CS2. I cannot connect my old 6088 feedback units to the new CS3+, but future additional feedback will be connected to the CS3.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#13 Posted : 31 March 2021 14:30:22(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,756
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
I cannot connect my old 6088 feedback units to the new CS3 ,

You can but you need a Link88 (60883) instead of a S88 (60881) for your next purchase
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline kiwiAlan  
#14 Posted : 31 March 2021 15:54:17(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,334
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
Hello Jean,
I have a 'switch' unit with multiple RJ45 connections so I can directly connect my computer and the 2 control stations in. My CS3+ is the master, and the CS2 is now a slave. This happens automatically when they are joined with the marklin cable.

I don't yet have any software for the computer, and I was under the impression that Marklin have such a software. I have heard of Rocrail but know nothing about it.


The marklin program replicates the cs2/3 front panel. it is on the marklin web site here. Tick the box at the bottom of the page and the download list opens. You want the CS2-4-2-1-setup.exe

Offline George Culliver  
#15 Posted : 31 March 2021 20:58:30(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hello Alan, thank you very much. That is great. I will try it tomorrow Perth time. BTW... how do I place photos into this reply? I'll post a view of my layout.
Offline dickinsonj  
#16 Posted : 31 March 2021 22:26:13(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,455
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
With the CS3, use the VNC Viewer (free app) and create a connection with the IP address of your CS3 followed by:5900 (in my case 192.168.0.23:5900)

Jean, is there an advantage to using a VNC viewer with the CS3 rather than just using a browser?

Thanks,

Jim
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#17 Posted : 31 March 2021 22:58:06(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,756
Location: Paris, France
Hi Jim
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Jean, is there an advantage to using a VNC viewer with the CS3 rather than just using a browser?

Thanks,

The difference is:
With a web browser you obtain static screens like this
* Home screen- available functions
CS3-PC-Home.png
* CS3 icons copy
CS3-PC-Images Locos.png

With the VNC Viewer you have a dynamic copy of your CS3 screen. Permanently updated and interactive (you can use your PC mouse for an identical result as if you were touching your CS3 screen). Of course with a large display you have a much larger view of your CS3 image
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline dickinsonj  
#18 Posted : 01 April 2021 00:48:10(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,455
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
With the VNC Viewer you have a dynamic copy of your CS3 screen.

Thanks Jean. I am still using my old Main Station app on my tablet and have not yet explored any other external interfaces to my new CS3. Märklin and others have talked so favorably about the advantages of their new web interface that I expected more, something more like the Main Station.

I appreciate the explanation and I will go straight for the VNC viewer and not bother checking out the browser connection. I will also continue to use the Main Station app, which I find very useful, but remote access to the CS3 interface is ideal.

Thanks again. ThumpUp

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline George Culliver  
#19 Posted : 02 April 2021 11:58:50(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hello Jean and Alan,
I downloaded the CS2 4-2-1 as suggested, connect my PC, CS3 and CS2 together with a 5 port 'switch' and presto, the CS2 screen opened up on the PC and was fully dynamic. This gives an additional 2 loco screens for loco control and a separate window can be opened for accessory control. All working with a clock of the mouse.

But, it is the CS3 screen that I want (need)......... did I miss something or do I need another file like CS3 4-2-1?? I can't find it?

Previously, I had some hard wired " if this, then that" logic for alternating platform use in my main station...... I am thrilled that the new CS3 can handle many 'logic' events. I am used to programming industrial PLC systems.

Ed (George)
Offline JohnjeanB  
#20 Posted : 02 April 2021 13:23:12(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,756
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
But, it is the CS3 screen that I want (need)......... did I miss something or do I need another file like CS3 4-2-1??I can't find it?

Hi George
The only way I know:
* download VNC viewer: https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/download/viewer/
* connect your CS3 to your PC with an Ethernet cable and note your CS3 IP address
* create in VNC Viewer a connection with the IP address followed by : :5900. Example in my case 192.168.0.23:5900
* on your web browser type the IP address and you will get this

CS3-PC-Home.png
Then in system, select internet server

CS3-PC-System Screen copy.png

* start your VNC Viewer and type the connection (192.168.0.23:5900 for me)
* if the connection cannot be found, go back to your web browser and select internet server or Bildschirm Server (German)
When it starts you have the exact same cs3 screen on you PC and your can select any function

Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline George Culliver  
#21 Posted : 02 April 2021 13:30:12(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Thank you very much Jean, I will try it tomorrow Perth time. I'll let you know how I get on.
Ed (George)
Offline bph  
#22 Posted : 02 April 2021 14:58:14(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 399
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post

Thanks Jean. I am still using my old Main Station app on my tablet and have not yet explored any other external interfaces to my new CS3. Märklin and others have talked so favorably about the advantages of their new web interface that I expected more, something more like the Main Station.

I appreciate the explanation and I will go straight for the VNC viewer and not bother checking out the browser connection. I will also continue to use the Main Station app, which I find very useful, but remote access to the CS3 interface is ideal.

Thanks again. ThumpUp



Hi

you also have these windows in the browser. it's that more of what you were looking for ?. When I use my tablet I only use the browser. it's working quite well.
If you have a mouse with a scroll wheel you can just hold the mouse over the speed bar and scroll to adjust speed. And on the pc, you can have several browser windows at once. Found that Chrome generally works best, but even with chrome, there seem to be some small bugs.

A few screenshots from my pc.
CS3_browser.jpg

CS3_browser2.jpg

CS3_browser3.jpg
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline George Culliver  
#23 Posted : 03 April 2021 07:01:20(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hello everyone,

20210403_094050rs.jpg20210403_094315rs.jpg20210403_094722rs.jpg20210403_100231rs.jpg20210403_101059rs.jpg

I have tried to connect my PC to the CS3 using the VCN.

My CS3 does not automatically find IP, but I found it in the information area and typed it in while in'manual' IP mode.

I get 192.168.78 .21 for the CS3 IP address. I don't know what the DNS server number is for.

In VCN I have entered the IP with the suggested :5900, and then hit enter. The VCN looks for a while and states that the address is valid but no requested data is returned.

I have tried rebooting and many things, but to no result.

I can't work out what I am doing wrong.
Offline phils2um  
#24 Posted : 03 April 2021 09:09:13(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
You need both your PC and the CS3 hooked into your network router. It is the router that assigns the IP address to the CS3 and enables communication between network devices (your PC and the CS3 are network devices). The IP address is valid only as long as the CS3 is connected to the router. You should have "auto (DHCP)" selected. Restart your CS3 once it is hooked up to the router. It will get its IP address from the router. Note that your router may possibly assign a new address. Check it again after the CS3 boots up.
Phil S.
Offline George Culliver  
#25 Posted : 04 April 2021 06:53:05(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hello Phil, thanks for your input.
All 3 devices (PC, CS@, & CS3) are connected to the 5 port network switch (as in the photo in previous chat above). With the same setup, I can open the CS2 on my PC no problem, but apparently I must use the VCN to get the CS3 onto my PC.

In auto DHCP it always fails to get an IP, so in manual I typed in the IP of my CS3 as seen in the info area (192.168.78 .21). I have re-booted numerous times with same result. Maybe I need to access the switch and do some setting first, but I am not an IT guy...... not sure how to get into the switch.
Offline PeFu  
#26 Posted : 04 April 2021 09:01:18(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 905
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
Hello Phil, thanks for your input.
All 3 devices (PC, CS@, & CS3) are connected to the 5 port network switch (as in the photo in previous chat above).


Yes, but as Phil explains, you need a router too; i.e.:

Router > Switch > CSx, PC etc.

Or

Router w. built-in switch > CSx, PC etc.

What article N.o. is your Netgear box? (in order help us help you further).

Smile

Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
Offline phils2um  
#27 Posted : 04 April 2021 09:31:34(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
In VCN I have entered the IP with the suggested :5900, and then hit enter. The VCN looks for a while and states that the address is valid but no requested data is returned.


That is because the CS3s Bildschim Server (Screen Server) app is not running. You need to be able to connect to the CS3 with your PCs web browser - Chrome, Foxfire, Edge ,etc. to turn it on.
Phil S.
Offline George Culliver  
#28 Posted : 04 April 2021 09:35:14(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
20210404_151524rs.jpg20210404_151458rs.jpg

Hello PeFu, Please see attached photos of my network 'switch'. Model GS605.
I am not connecting to the internet, or to wireless devices, so I have assumed that 3 devices directly connected together through this switch would be sufficient. It does work for the CS2 to show duplicate screen (dynamic) on my PC. When necessary, I use my phone as a 'hotspot' to browse the web.

I have thought of a 'router' as being for wireless connection to internet or other tables.

I was a professional electrical inspector for more than 30 years, but I have very little IT skills.Blink

Thanks for your help
Ed (George)
Offline phils2um  
#29 Posted : 04 April 2021 09:39:20(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
HI again George - What is your PCs IP address? Check in control panels>network.
Phil S.
Offline George Culliver  
#30 Posted : 04 April 2021 09:43:10(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
20210403_102153rs.jpg

HelloPhil,
Am I in a chicken and egg situation?

Please see screen shot of my PC OP info. I have Google Chrome browser
Offline phils2um  
#31 Posted : 04 April 2021 10:05:01(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
Am I in a chicken and egg situation?


YES!

As you are not connected to any outside network try assigning the IP address 169.254.196.10 (it should be a free address) to the CS3. Also set the IP Network Template to 255.255.0.0 (same as the subnet mask on your PC) and see if your browser can connect to 169.254.196.10.

Also, you say the PC can communicate with the CS2 OK. What are the CS2s network settings?
Phil S.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by phils2um
Offline bph  
#32 Posted : 04 April 2021 12:31:25(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 399
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
20210403_102153rs.jpg

HelloPhil,
Am I in a chicken and egg situation?

Please see screen shot of my PC OP info. I have Google Chrome browser


Hi
recommend that you set up your network more properly as the IP you have on your PC basically means a failed IP configuration. So if you later connect to the internet/ore a router with DHCP the IP will change and be in a different range and you will probably lose the connection to your cs3. Using the 169.254.x.x range is not recommended.

a good suggestion for a private range is to use the 192.168.X.XX range

eg set up your PC with a fixed address like this:
IP:192.168.4.2
Subnet:255.255.255.0
Gateway: leave blank, or use your internet router
DNS: leave in auto, or use eg one from google when you connect to the internet (8.8.8.8)

on the CS3
IP:192.168.4.3 (it is recommended to use a fixed IP)
IP network template (Subnet):255.255.255.0
gateway:192.168.4.2 (change it if you later get an internet router)
DNS: leave blank for now if you are not connected to the internet. or use the IP on your PC

Set the CAN gateway to broadcast, and the destination address to 192.168.4.255 (if you need it)

when you get an internet router connected (With DHCP), set it up to a fixed local ip of 192.168.4.1 (enter this as a gateway on your PC and CS3).
Subnet:255.255.255.0
And set the DHCP range E.G. from 192.168.4.10 to 192.168.4.50. that way you don't have a conflict with the fixed addresses.
Don't change the IP setting the router receives from your ISP.
you can then change the DNS to auto, or the IP of your router, or just use an external one eg the google one.


And as phils2um mentioned, remember to activate the CS3 Bildschirm in the web browser.
Offline marklinist5999  
#33 Posted : 04 April 2021 16:35:12(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,018
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: phils2um Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
Am I in a chicken and egg situation?


YES!

As you are not connected to any outside network try assigning the IP address 169.254.196.10 (it should be a free address) to the CS3. Also set the IP Network Template to 255.255.0.0 (same as the subnet mask on your PC) and see if your browser can connect to 169.254.196.10.

Also, you say the PC can communicate with the CS2 OK. What are the CS2s network settings?


Phil, you must know the CS3 inside and out! Are you an ETE member? May I ask for advice if I need to later on if I begin incorporating route control, signals, or turnouts? Thus far, I have no plans to even electrify my 4 C turnouts, unless I add in my M track ones with M83s. My route is long, but only has two long sidings, and up and over bridge ramp off of one oval on one bench, and a acending/decline ramp from a Biestschtal bridge on the other.
Offline PeFu  
#34 Posted : 04 April 2021 23:20:50(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 905
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
Please see attached photos of my network 'switch'. Model GS605.
I am not connecting to the internet, or to wireless devices, so I have assumed that 3 devices directly connected together through this switch would be sufficient.

No, you will need a router to connect your three devices, with or without router access to the Internet. The router manages IP addresses and your network traffic. Your switch will more or less just ”split” one cable into several cables. Adding an IP address in your CS without connecting the CS to a router is like inventing your own phone number without telling the world or your phone operator about it.

Wink

Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by PeFu
Offline phils2um  
#35 Posted : 06 April 2021 09:19:37(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Phil, you must know the CS3 inside and out!


Hardly! And, I'm by no means an IT expert either, just enough learned through experience and asking questions to be dangerous. What I suggested to George was only what might possibly get his PC and CS3 talking. I'd give the settings recommended by bph a try too. His reasoning is sound should he ever connect to the Internet.

What George really should do is purchase a router so he can create a local area net (LAN) in a more standard way. He should get one with WiFi so he can do wireless control. He'll never regret it.

I'm just beginning with Event programming. I recommend you watch the Märklin Digital Club Youtube presentations. https://www.youtube.com/...UCH3xwtG73nOF6t_U6uXofiQ

Also, keep asking your questions here - it's likely someone with the right - or at least a workable - answer will reply.

No, i'm not a member of ETE but I do like the modular layout the Michigan/Ohio/Indiana members have displayed and operated at SE Michigan train shows.
Phil S.
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Offline George Culliver  
#36 Posted : 08 April 2021 02:42:57(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hello PeFu, and others helping me.
PeFu, I like your turn of phrase, however in my own defense, I didn't invent that IP, it was in the CS3 info.

Well, I have a disused internet router, and I have hooked it up.
In the last few days, I had a few troubles....... I had a catastrophic crash and several freight wagon hit the deck (ouch!) , and my first attempt with the VNC caused a freeze of my computer. I had to do several 'restore' operations just to get google chrome to work again. On top of this, I had a knee replacement surgery (left) 2 months ago and I still have problems to get up to the attic.Cursing

So, here are some photos:-
20210405_085459rs.jpg20210405_085507 CS3rs.jpg20210405_085558 CS2rs.jpg

IP addresses suddenly appear in both the CS3 and the CS2, but they are 'grey'. If I switch the CS3 to manual, the IP goes 'black'.
I have tried to make contact with my computer using the VNC, but with the same result...... valid address but no data transferred. I tried with and without the :5900

I will try deleting VNC from my computer and then re-installing. I am not sure if I have to LOGIN to VCN but have done so anyway. I hope I can get it sorted soon as I get my right knee replaced in 2 weeks ......Crying the pain is unbelievable!!!

Regards
Ed (George)
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Offline phils2um  
#37 Posted : 08 April 2021 05:11:24(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Don't forget - first you need to use your Chrome browser to connect to the CS3 and turn on the Bildschim Server. If you don't start the Server on the CS3 you will never be able to connect with VNC! There is a box you can tick on the Bildschim Server startup page that will make it start every time your CS3 starts. I've done this on my CS3. That way I don't have to start it up separately every time. But you still need to connect with your browser the first time to get it going!
Phil S.
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Offline George Culliver  
#38 Posted : 10 April 2021 02:04:57(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hello Phil, thank you for helping me...... appreciated.

I have tried again with the new router connected with the 3 devices, CS3, CS2 and my PC....... but not connected to the internet.

I turn on the CS2 first, and then the CS3.... wait to prove startup is OK by checking one of the feedback controls and watching the result.

I have the PC there and open Google Chrome. The CS3 has IP addresses, which I assume are issued by the router.20210409_111522rs.jpg

I have then typed this IP into the search line of the PC browser and hit ENTER.

But the browser ONLY searches for the internet (which I am not connected to), and does not look for the LAN of the 2 Marklin controllers. Where does the Marklin page come from to switch the bildschim server?? Does it get it from the CS3?

So I still don't know why I cannot see the CS3 through the LAN20210405_085611rs.jpg

I tried to find out how to switch the Chrome search to LAN but found no information. I also tried CAT5 and wifi connection between router and PC.Cursing
Offline phils2um  
#39 Posted : 12 April 2021 06:09:09(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Hi George,

No, the address you show was not assigned by the router. You have the manual box checked so that is the previous net address that was in the CS3's system. As long as Manual is checked it will not change unless you manually change it.

Try this.

Set the CS3 IP Address Assignment to Auto(DHCP).
Set your PC to obtain its Network address by DHCP.
Shut everything down and then power off including the router. Wait at least 1 minute.
Disconnect the CS3 from the rest of you train control system so it is standing alone. The first objective is to get the CS3 and PC talking through the router.
Connect the PC and the CS3 to the router by Cat5 cable. The CS3 MUST always remain connected to the router by cable! The CS3 does not have built in WiFi. The PC can connect to the router by Wifi later but try a cable connection first.
Turn on the router and let it power up completely. Give it at least a couple of minutes.
Turn on your PC. After it has fully booted and you're logged in check the network connection to seen if your PC connected to the router. If not, connect using the open connection option in the Network Control Panel. Your router should be the one (and only because from what you've told us you don't have other network options available to the PC) network option. Check the PC's network address after it is connected. In particular make note of the first three groups of numbers.
Make sure your CS3 is connected to the router then turn it on. Don't concern yourself with the CS2 at the moment leave it off. Again, we're just trying to get your PC to recognize the CS3.
Once the CS3 is booted check its network address. The first three groups of numbers should be the same as the first three groups in the address of your PC! These are your router's LAN address. The last group is the device address on the LAN.
Using Chrome on your PC put the CS3's four group numerical address in the URL window. Don't forget the periods separating the three digit number groups. Try to connect.

I don't think you need an internet connection for the PC to talk to the CS3 but I can't check it out myself at the moment. Others in the house are using my router's internet connection so I can't disconnect from the web till later.

Let me know how it goes. I've checked the "Watch this topic..." box. So you can reply through this thread.
Phil S.
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Offline George Culliver  
#40 Posted : 13 April 2021 04:24:44(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hello Phil, thank you again for helping me.BigGrin

To be clear about the IP you mention. New from the box, there was no IP visible, and while using the 5 port switch nothing either. The IP appeared after the first time connection to the internet router........ but in grey colour. The figures will only change colour to black if the manual selection is made.

I have followed your instructions several times, and also included several variations to the theme.
20210413_091805rs.jpg

I know that the PC is connecting OK to the router, but the CS3 remains grey.
20210413_081639rs.jpg
I note that the CS3+ serial number is 482, and I have just bought it last month from TRAINZ in the USA.............. the copywrite is 2016, so I am guessing it is very old stock that I have been saddled with. Is it possible this unit is just not capable to connect?

I might also comment that I will never make an eBay purchase again where the seller uses the eBay GSP (Global Shipping Program) WHAT a RIP_OFF!

It seems that the CS3+ just does not want to connect to the router.

My PC still only tries to look on the internet for the IP I suppose is the CS3, and I remain unclear as to where the Marklin CS3 page I have seen on various Utoob videos comes from. Is there something I still need to download from the internet?

Thank you again
Ed (George)
Offline PeFu  
#41 Posted : 13 April 2021 06:57:59(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 905
But for me, it seems like both the PC and CS3 are connected to the router. As you have selected Auto DHCP in the CS3, the router provides the IP for the CS3, and you should not be able to edit the IP in the CS3.

Would it be possible for you to log on to the router, by adding 192.168.0.1 in a PC browser? (You will probably need an Admin account and password) There, it should be possible to check which devices that are connected. Is the CS3 connected?

Smile

Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
Offline blid  
#42 Posted : 13 April 2021 10:43:07(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 186
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Another way to check connections to a PC is to use Windows PowerShell and ping the IP-addresses. In the PowerShell window just write:
Ping 192.168.0.107
If there is a connection the response time etc is displayed.
I haven't followed the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been mention already.
CS2, 60215, 4x60174, C-tracks, LDT HSI-88, TC Gold. OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC.
Offline George Culliver  
#43 Posted : 13 April 2021 11:24:38(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hello PeFu,

Thanks. I have logged into the router as you recommended, and can prove that the PC and the CS3+ are connected to the router.
20210413_141025rs.jpg

I have tried both windows explorer and google chrome to look for the IP address 192.168.0 .107 (the IP of CS3+) but in both cases the browsers ONLY want to look at the internet which I am not connected to.

I don't know how to ONLY look at the LAN consisting of my PC and the CS3+. So I still cannot get the Marklin page up on my PC.

What should I try next?

Ed (George)
Offline PeFu  
#44 Posted : 13 April 2021 12:40:48(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 905
Can you ping the CS3 from the PC, as Blid described?

In case you don’t get a ping response, there could be a proxy setting or similar in the router. What if you do a total restore of the router?
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
Offline kiwiAlan  
#45 Posted : 13 April 2021 16:09:12(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,334
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: George Culliver Go to Quoted Post
Hello PeFu,

Thanks. I have logged into the router as you recommended, and can prove that the PC and the CS3+ are connected to the router.
20210413_141025rs.jpg

I have tried both windows explorer and google chrome to look for the IP address 192.168.0 .107 (the IP of CS3+) but in both cases the browsers ONLY want to look at the internet which I am not connected to.

I don't know how to ONLY look at the LAN consisting of my PC and the CS3+. So I still cannot get the Marklin page up on my PC.

What should I try next?

Ed (George)


This suggests there is a setting in the router that is stopping the PC connecting to the cs. Routers sometimes have this as a means of stopping a virus attack from working out what other devices are on the same network and attacking them. I think you would find that is there is a printer on the network then the PC will not be able to print to it for the same reason.

Offline blid  
#46 Posted : 13 April 2021 16:51:10(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 186
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Wouldn't a PING reveal that?
CS2, 60215, 4x60174, C-tracks, LDT HSI-88, TC Gold. OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC.
Offline phils2um  
#47 Posted : 13 April 2021 18:14:17(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Hi George,

First, as PeFu said, you can not edit the network settings when the CS3 is set to Auto. That is why they are grayed out. From your post #44 your PC and CS3 have definitely established connection to the router. So the that is not the problem. It could be a problem in the router setup as suggested by Alan.

To followup on my previous post: I just disconnected my router from the internet. (I physically disconnected it from my broadband modem.) I have an old Dell laptop (1530M) that I use when I need a Windows PC. It is running Windows 7. I tried connecting to another wireless network using the options in the network control panel which broke the connection to my router. I then reconnected to my router. The network map in the PC control panel showed I was connected to my router but no connection to the internet as expected. I was still able to connect to my CS3 using Chrome and everything worked. So the CS3 is not looking for a hidden assist from the web in the background. The CS3 network address in my case is 10.0.1.6.

You mentioned that your CS3 has a low sn, 482. I've had mine awhile too, sn 953. Has your CS3 been updated? What hardware and software versions are you running? It is possible the CS3 is the issue if you are running the original software. Maybe someone else can answer this. I did a restore to the a very early backup on my CS3 but interestingly, this only restored the trackplan, loco list, etc. It did NOT restore the operating software to the original version! My CS3 still shows the current SW version 2.2.0(5) after the restore. So I am unable to check if it might be a CS3 software issue. My CS3 hardware version is 03.03.

I'm at a loss as to what your problem is. I hope you find a solution!

As an aside - you're probably learning more about networks than you ever wanted to!Crying
Phil S.
Offline phils2um  
#48 Posted : 14 April 2021 07:38:38(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Another thought - I don't have a CS2 (or another CS3) so don't have a master/slave setup. I don't know if this makes any difference but if the CS3 is the slave you may not be able to connect because the CS2 is in charge. Did you have the CS3 completely isolated from the rest of your train control system when you tried to connect with your Chrome Browser?
Phil S.
Offline George Culliver  
#49 Posted : 14 April 2021 08:36:16(UTC)
George Culliver

Australia   
Joined: 29/03/2021(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Western Australia, Perth
Hello Phil, I want to thank you and everybody who has helped me so much.

I am not 100% sure how I finally manged it, but EVERYTHING is working now.BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

Somehow on the 400th attempt I got through the router to the CS3.... firstly using windows explorer and the Marklin page appeared to say the browser was 'out of date'. So I immediately attempt to contact through Chrome and the Marklin webpage match that I have seen on utoob. It was in German and could not translate because internet was not available, but I have a little German and found the Bildshrim page you all suggested. Then fiddled around a while and got the CS3+ screen.

So then I started the CS2 which booted OK. I already knew that the CS3+ won't work correctly if started first, so I rebooted it. Checking the feedback contacts, I proved the 2 controllers operated correctly and then found the CS3+ screen on my PC. Checking various functions in 'solenoids and in track circuit layout...... everything worked on the PC too. I then just checked of the PC could also mirror on a larger monitor screen and yes all OK. My intention is to send the PC screen to a very large scrren I will mount high above the layout and use my little remote mouse to operate the PC.
20210414_113639rs.jpg20210414_115419rs.jpg20210414_115620rs.jpg20210414_115634rs.jpg20210414_115716rs.jpg20210414_115811rs.jpg20210414_115845rs.jpg

Please excuse the mess all over the layout..... I am currently making a module of wall, rock and grass etc along behind the 'city area'... hence the stone wall mouldings. Eventually the 'mountain' will be about 1200 high in the middle of two areas each side of the bridges.

Thank you again to everyone. I am such an ignorant person in IT matters.LOL
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Offline phils2um  
#50 Posted : 14 April 2021 09:06:07(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Great News! Now If you haven't already don't forget to set the Bildschim Server to startup every time the CS3 starts. Here's a screen shot of where you do it.
Screen Shot 2021-04-14 at 2.52.44 AM.png

Open the Bildschim Server page using your browser then click on the configuration button on the left and you'll get this screen. Then select activate under the Automatic Start option
Phil S.
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