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Offline MarkD  
#1 Posted : 20 February 2021 14:15:46(UTC)
MarkD

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: England, Huddersfield
Hi all,

I have recently bought a Marklin CS3+ to use with a proposed indoor G-scale layout.

I’m struggling to see from the Marklin manuals for their train detection modules whether they work with the G-scale voltage and amperage for block detection.

I’m guessing the modules will work fine with Massoth Reed switches.

Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

Mark
Offline Henrik Schütz  
#2 Posted : 20 February 2021 15:25:56(UTC)
Henrik Schütz

Sweden   
Joined: 04/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 56
Location: Stockholms Lan, Stockholm
I think the S88DC will work, It has catalogue number 60882.

Regards

Henrik Schütz
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Henrik Schütz
Offline MarkD  
#3 Posted : 20 February 2021 16:39:20(UTC)
MarkD

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: England, Huddersfield
I think I will need to get the module you suggest and try it. Is appears there’s not much information on using the CS3 with g-scale.

I was hoping with the RC3 remote from Massoth being released there would be greater cooperation between the two companies but that died a horrible death late last year when the RC3 was canned.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 21 February 2021 00:02:32(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,323
Location: Paris, France
Hi Mark
The instruction manual is here 60882 Users Manual.pdf (2,325kb) downloaded 4 time(s).
It has 16 connections to measure the current (min 5 mA) -regardless of polarity- between it and a common return.
Because of the 2 rails particulars (polarity inversion) the decoder has 2 common returns (1 for 8 detection entries) each one floating compared to the other
60882.png
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline MarkD  
#5 Posted : 21 February 2021 10:12:33(UTC)
MarkD

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: England, Huddersfield
Thanks Jean,

I had seen that diagram and was a bit confused.

Is the module providing power to that separate inner section of track in the top diagram? Can the module tolerate the 20v that gscale uses.

Thanks for your input.

Mark
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 21 February 2021 10:51:38(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,323
Location: Paris, France
Hi Mark
No the 60882 does not provide any power but must be in the circuit that feeds your train.
In digital it is even simpler: all commons could be connected to 0 and the different connections feed the 0 to the detection zones while the B feeds the other rail
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline MarkD  
#7 Posted : 21 February 2021 22:19:33(UTC)
MarkD

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: England, Huddersfield
882AF72A-A358-4B1E-B567-51C6DA15F426.png

Jean,

As per my attached diagram how does the power get to the inner section marked with the yellow arrow?

Does the power flow through the module, which at the same time measures the current to identify occupancy

Mark.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 22 February 2021 01:25:52(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,323
Location: Paris, France
Hi Mark
Originally Posted by: MarkD Go to Quoted Post
As per my attached diagram how does the power get to the inner section marked with the yellow arrow?

Does the power flow through the module,which at the same time measures the current to identifyoccupancy

Yes you may see the module as 2 pairs of anti parallel diodes (4 diodes total) with an amplifier to detect any current above 5 mA in any direction
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline phils2um  
#9 Posted : 23 February 2021 09:50:05(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 55
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Hi Mark,

Personally I would not use the S88DC. I would use a standard S88AC. You can trigger it with reed switches as you suggested. I plan to use IR detectors myself on my G-gauge RR. Check out this site: http://www.azatrax.com/i...del-train-detector.html. I bought one of their MRD8 IR train detector kits to tryout myself as inputs to a S88AC module. By mounting the IR transmitter and receiver on a diagonal across the track it will act as an occupancy detector much like Märklin's HO contact track. Diagonal mounting eliminates multiple triggers and assures the beam remains broken until the entire train has passed. It is used just like the contact track in three rail (Märklin) HO for both entry and departure triggering.

In order to do the same with a S88DC you need to put resistors or some other means to draw current across the wheelsets of all of your wagons. The resistors are necessary if you want to sense an entire length of train with the S88DC and use it for both entry and departure triggering.

Phil S.
Phil S.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 23 February 2021 13:44:34(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,323
Location: Paris, France
Hi
It is all a matter of taste and choice.
IMO using magnets and reed contacts is "quick and dirty" and allows rapidly to make some automatic operation. It is fine for a small layout.
Current measuring technique is way more secure and allows real train maneuvers (adding a car, leaving a consist.

There is an easy way to make any wagon detectable using products like graphit 33 https://www.ebay.de/itm/GRAPHIT-...71c0b:g:zuAAAOSwuI9gKg5Z

Note: using a PC driven software (Rocrail?) makes the detection even simpler because of no stopping sections (so no resistors).

All this is just my opinion.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline MarkD  
#11 Posted : 23 February 2021 20:26:37(UTC)
MarkD

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: England, Huddersfield
Thanks for the responses.

I asked my local train shop who are a Massoth dealer to speak with them about what offerings that have that works with the CS3. They said none of their products work but I feel this could be a good market for them.

Back in topic. I suppose current detection and Reed switches both work for my application. I’ll try both options and see what is best for this project.

Please keep the information flowing
Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 24 February 2021 00:59:48(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,323
Location: Paris, France
Hi Mark
You may want to keep mixing the brands (Märklin and Massoth) to a minimum to avoid side effects and "surprises" regarding evolutions / Märklin future developments. Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline MarkD  
#13 Posted : 24 February 2021 08:14:33(UTC)
MarkD

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: England, Huddersfield
I found this marklin video for spur 1.

It shows the 60882 being used in larger scale with the CS3+

It’s in German but the video is easy to follow


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