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Online baggio  
#1 Posted : 17 November 2020 18:09:48(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Hello, Everyone.

My layout is 39" by 73" and I run around this perimeter my two-way system.

Inside the above space, I run my Marklin trains.

As a result, the usable space for my Marklin portion is about 6" less all around: 33 x 67".

Both tracks are in very simple ovals, one inside the other.

I have not used my train set up very often in the last couple of years since this layout is overall pretty boring. Blushing

Question: Does anyone have any SIMPLE ideas on how to make the Marklin layout more fun (and/or how to combine the two in a more fun way)?

Ideally, I would love to have a second level, even bought one helix to do this, but the space does not seem to allow for it.

Thanks. BigGrin


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Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 17 November 2020 18:29:46(UTC)
DaleSchultz

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Posts: 3,511
Have you considered not running loops, and create a shunting yard instead? Using the layout then involves solving puzzles of how to shuffle the cars about to make up a specific train.

Or just a Bw with engine servicing facilities and lots of detail.

Perhaps with a mainline at the front and the train hides behind a wall at the back....

Or just a massive valley and bridge in the foreground and a double mainline that goes over the bridge and the two trains hide behind a backdrop for some minutes. Imagine visiting a mainline in Europe, you hear the bird calls and then a train rushes by every 20 minutes or so... and you go back to the bird calls......
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Online baggio  
#3 Posted : 18 November 2020 00:49:50(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post

Or just a massive valley and bridge in the foreground and a double mainline that goes over the bridge and the two trains hide behind a backdrop for some minutes. Imagine visiting a mainline in Europe, you hear the bird calls and then a train rushes by every 20 minutes or so... and you go back to the bird calls......


Sounds intriguing, but that is not what I had in mind.

I am actually considering a smaller version of Mike's layout with a train going up a ramp on one side and coming down on the other as he does. But I am not sure if the space I have (33" X 67") would allow for that.


Online baggio  
#4 Posted : 18 November 2020 01:07:03(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Right side.jpg

Centre.jpg

These are two pictures of Mike's layout.
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Online baggio  
#5 Posted : 18 November 2020 01:09:22(UTC)
baggio

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Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Left side 2.jpg

Left side of Mike's layout.
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Online Crazy Harry  
#6 Posted : 18 November 2020 03:40:06(UTC)
Crazy Harry

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Welcome back Silvano! I believe Mike's store layout is based upon or actually is a combination of the Noch Heidelberg modules. More information on and including dimensions of those modules can be found via this link: Noch Heidelberg Modules

Hope this helps,

Harold.

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Online baggio  
#7 Posted : 18 November 2020 06:42:59(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
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Location: Toronto
Hi, Harold.

Thanks for the greeting and the very helpful link. BigGrin

Given the size of my layout, I may have to resort to just having a second level without going from one level to another.

So, the bottom level would be R2 in two-rail (called R3 by Roco) and inside this oval, I would put a second level with an R1 Marklin oval.

The result would look a bit like Mike's, but without the ability to go up and down. Pity, but my basement space is very limited.

In any event, tomorrow I will talk to Mike and see what he can suggest.

Edited by user 19 November 2020 20:52:05(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#8 Posted : 18 November 2020 11:50:03(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Elaborating on your last minimalist idea: By expanding the upper Maerklin oval and by overlapping the levels you could add some room of manoeuvre. An example using circles:
2020rfm1.png
https://stummiforum.de/v...ic.php?f=15&t=144494

Adding a ramp moves you away from a minimalist and quick fix. Still, here is a 39" x 63" design for Maerklin as an example for thinking outside of the box (or outside of the oval):
2020rfm2.png
http://www.moba-trickkis...p;total=353&start=21
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Offline Copenhagen  
#9 Posted : 18 November 2020 13:17:33(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 80
Would it be possible with a narrower layout that could be up against a wall combined with reverse loops at one or both ends? A reverse loop could be made portable so that it could be removed when not running trains in order to save space, a reverse loop could also be at an angle to the main part. That way you could have the central part of the layout with longer stretches of track and a yard and a station.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#10 Posted : 18 November 2020 14:56:54(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
A reverse loop could be made portable so that it could be removed when not running trains in order to save space, ....
The principle illustrated:
2020rl1rmvbl.png
Cool


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Online baggio  
#11 Posted : 18 November 2020 15:54:04(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
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Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Adding a ramp moves you away from a minimalist and quick fix.


You hit the nail n the head, Al: Ramp-building is for me apparently impossible because of the lack of space.

My understanding is ramps have to be long by necessity so that the rise is not too sharp.

Having said that, I wonder if an R1 curve could be made to rise ten inches, much like Mike's layout, but with a smaller radius.

What do you think?

Thanks.

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Online baggio  
#12 Posted : 18 November 2020 16:14:17(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Circle - very nice - Nov 2020.jpg





This is taken out of your link, Al (thanks), and looks very nice. Google translator did the rest:

"Yes, that would be crazy, but I also have some H0 rolling stock in my showcase, including a P 3/5 H (the old one from Trix) with a Bavarian express train car. So I could implement the concept of my very first N layout, which can be seen here in the photo, in H0. The dimensions would then be about 90x90 cm. There would then be space for two Era 1 trains.

Advantage: I would have something in a different size, and I think that H0 opens up another world in the design (gravel tracks, meadows, trees, etc.) compared to N, the vehicles just look completely different due to their size. Disadvantage: I find 90x90 cm very bulky. You can no longer put it in a larger shelf because of the depth and the transport is annoying (the system only fits upright through the door, and probably only in a station wagon, which I don't have. I'm just not used to that )."

Certainly gives me something to think about. BigGrin
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Online baggio  
#13 Posted : 18 November 2020 16:21:03(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
Would it be possible with a narrower layout that could be up against a wall combined with reverse loops at one or both ends? A reverse loop could be made portable so that it could be removed when not running trains in order to save space, a reverse loop could also be at an angle to the main part. That way you could have the central part of the layout with longer stretches of track and a yard and a station.


I like reverse loops a lot, but by their nature prevent you from running two trains one behind the other since one train could be coming back while the next is still not completely inside the loop. Something to consider, however.

Thanks for the suggestion. BigGrin

Online baggio  
#14 Posted : 18 November 2020 16:27:38(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
Noch Heidelberg modules


Mike confirmed that his layout was made by using the Heidelberg modules, adapted to his needs.

However, these modules are bulky and with the Pandemic he is not importing any at this time.
Offline jcrtrains  
#15 Posted : 18 November 2020 16:49:17(UTC)
jcrtrains

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Welcome back! An option for the two level approach is double loops underneath and a switching layout on the upper part. The following has a series of small switching layouts for ideas. Note the first part is British and the second part is North American.

Switching layouts

Thanks
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Online michelvr  
#16 Posted : 18 November 2020 17:50:11(UTC)
michelvr


Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,154
Hello Silvano,

It’s nice to see you back on the forum. With your space in mind and knowing that there are some nice possibilities in HO what about N or Z scale? You can accomplish quite an interesting layout in all scales for your space and they would be fun to run trains on.

Here’s some inspirational links;

http://www.scarm.info/la...ize=S&tracks=Marklin

https://www.katousa.com/track-plans/n-plans.html

https://www.scottpages.net/SuitcaseZ.htm


If nothing works for you, once COVID-19 is over please be my guest and bring your trains here and let them run as fast as you would like them to go!
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#17 Posted : 18 November 2020 18:14:30(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,894
Location: Southwesternmost
Silvano,

Since you (a) brought up the double-track circle and (b) enquired about a ramp - here are two layouts I actually built:
Kreisanlagen.jpg
Left image: The single-level double track circle "consumed" 37" x 37".
Right image: The track climbed to a maximum altitude of 6" on a 39" x 50" surface. It took two revolutions to reach the apex.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#18 Posted : 18 November 2020 18:16:00(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Location: Southwesternmost
And I once created a study for a train to run on a circular course with the possibility to turn around via the stub tracks and/or to meet a train in the stub track station. Furthermore, one could simulate point-to-point operations, do some shunting and store (with or without a turntable) motive power and/or cars. Dimensions are 38" x 67". Stub track length can be extended to accommodate longer trains
Mus.png.jpg
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Online baggio  
#19 Posted : 18 November 2020 22:57:21(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
Welcome back!

Thank you, for the greeting, Jon and the link. BigGrin

The "St. Antoine sur Mer" suggestion looks neat. Something to think about.

Where I am heading for now is to put the Marklin layout on a second level by itself and below that the Roco oval. R1 size, most likely.
Online baggio  
#20 Posted : 18 November 2020 23:17:51(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello Silvano,

It’s nice to see you back on the forum.
...
If nothing works for you, once COVID-19 is over please be my guest and bring your trains here and let them run as fast as you would like them to go!


Hi, Michel. Thanks for the welcome back, links and invitation. BigGrin

Who knows, if the Pandemic does go away before I do Wink, I will certainly take you up on your offer to come by your place, sans the mask finally.

I want to stick to HO since I have already invested a lot of time and money on this scale. Having said that, some Marklin HO locos are not much bigger than a full size N scale loco.

The Scarm page looks interesting, with some adaptations because of the size of the layouts shown.

But I do want to go by way of adding a second level; either connected or otherwise.
In fact, the space below the second level could be used as a hidden station.








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Online baggio  
#21 Posted : 18 November 2020 23:22:19(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Silvano,

Since you (a) brought up the double-track circle and (b) enquired about a ramp - here are two layouts I actually built:


VERY interesting, Al. Do you have any pictures of the finished products, with trains running?
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Online baggio  
#22 Posted : 18 November 2020 23:24:17(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
And I once created a study for a train to run on a circular course with the possibility to turn around via the stub tracks and/or to meet a train in the stub track station. Furthermore, one could simulate point-to-point operations, do some shunting and store (with or without a turntable) motive power and/or cars. Dimensions are 38" x 67". Stub track length can be extended to accommodate longer trains
Mus.png.jpg


Now, THAT is way above what I had in mind! BigGrin
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#23 Posted : 19 November 2020 17:56:14(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
VERY interesting, Al. Do you have any pictures of the finished products, with trains running?
Indeed I do:

1) "Foursquares Circles"
1a%20Foursquare%20Circles.jpg
The vacuum cleaner wearing a hat is a placeholder for a human operator on a swivel chair.
1b%20Foursquare%20Circles.jpg
Operator´s view.

2) "Thunder Mountain"
TM2020PPR.png
From right to left: Initial construction phase test run, intermediate status, final status.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#24 Posted : 19 November 2020 18:38:47(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Now, THAT is way above what I had in mind! BigGrin
Another double-track iteration on 73" x 37".
73x37in.png
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Online baggio  
#25 Posted : 19 November 2020 20:12:29(UTC)
baggio

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Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
NEAT! BigGrin

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Online baggio  
#26 Posted : 19 November 2020 21:00:09(UTC)
baggio

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Location: Toronto
One set up I am considering is the one below.

I realize that this set up is usually used for race cars... but I do like it.

Does anyone know how to do it with Marklin, keeping in mind the layout involves raising the track, something I am not good at.

Thanks.

Silvano

Eight-shape track.gif
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Online michelvr  
#27 Posted : 20 November 2020 00:57:36(UTC)
michelvr


Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,154
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Online baggio  
#28 Posted : 20 November 2020 01:11:59(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
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Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post


Thank you, Michel, that helps a lot. BigGrin

However, these plans are for one level, I would like to knoe if it is possible to do it on two levels, as in the slot cars we used as kids. See link below.

Thanks.

https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/483...078490/?d=t&mt=login


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Offline mike c  
#29 Posted : 20 November 2020 03:04:40(UTC)
mike c

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Location: Montreal, QC
Instead of having one layout inside the other, why don't you design it so that at some point, the DC layout drops down about 5cm and the AC layout rises about 5 cm. That would then give you a spot where one could go over/under the other and you could then escape the simple oval concept.

If you like operations, like shunting and putting together trains, a yard is an interesting idea, but I don't think that I would want to have that as the main feature of my layout.

I like the idea of having a wide curve at the ends. Perhaps you can mix this with a helix to access a hidden storage area (Station) underneath, where you could keep multiple trains so that it is not just the same one going round and round.

I've pretty much decided that if I eventually set up a permanent layout, I would like it to have a station (not a Hauptbahnhof although that would be cool), but big enough that large trains might stop and I would like to have some kind of showpiece track, where a complete train could be seen. I would also like to have a local train going from the station that might involve tighter radii, maybe using push-pull trains that could come and go so I would not have to use reverse loops.

In your case, you could use the 2 rail DC for the showpiece part of the layout and the Maerklin for the local line. If you don't like the push-pull idea, you can use a reverse loop to enable the trains to turn around. from the station, it would either rise up or drop down so that it could pass over or under the mainline and go on it's way.

If you have more questions, I do not have a definite plan, but I can help with suggestions.

Regards

Mike C
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Online baggio  
#30 Posted : 20 November 2020 06:26:03(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
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Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Instead of having one layout inside the other, why don't you design it so that at some point, the DC layout drops down about 5cm and the AC layout rises about 5 cm. That would then give you a spot where one could go over/under the other and you could then escape the simple oval concept.


That is a cool idea. However, I would have to redo the whole layout.

I would have to have three levels:

Ist level empty/maybe a hidden station;
2nd level for DC train; and
3rd level for Marklin train.

Having said that, a rise/fall of 5 cm (total of 10) may be doable to achieve trains passing over each other and not have the two formats separate.

Something to think about, thanks. BigGrin
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Online baggio  
#31 Posted : 20 November 2020 06:30:38(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Mike C:

"In your case, you could use the 2 rail DC for the showpiece part of the layout and the Maerklin for the local line. If you don't like the push-pull idea, you can use a reverse loop to enable the trains to turn around. from the station, it would either rise up or drop down so that it could pass over or under the mainline and go on it's way."

This sounds like something to be incorporated in the other suggestion above, the first one. ThumpUp
Offline Alsterstreek  
#32 Posted : 20 November 2020 12:00:36(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Something like this?
tb1.png.jpg
9 years ago I tried out what one can do with a starter set ("Papa spiel mit mir") and some spare rails within a limited space of 39" x 67": a two level design with 8 m of main line which is crossing itself three times.

P.S.: Speaking of racing cars: There is part of a slot car course visible, too.
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Online baggio  
#33 Posted : 20 November 2020 16:06:49(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
I Love it, Al! ThumpUp

Was it difficult for the trains to climb the slopes?

(Maybe I should buy myself a race track, too, as a Christmas present... BigGrin )
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#34 Posted : 20 November 2020 16:44:12(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Was it difficult for the trains to climb the slopes?
No, not at all. The rear ramp (right) left an elegant impression in terms of aeshetics, but the one in the front (left) looked frivolously steep. Still, no problem for the short trains to climb.
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Online baggio  
#35 Posted : 20 November 2020 16:46:37(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Al, you are a tempting devil... BigGrin
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#36 Posted : 20 November 2020 16:54:33(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
One set up I am considering is the one below.

I realize that this set up is usually used for race cars... but I do like it.

Does anyone know how to do it with Marklin...]

For example on a 38" x 74" surface:
8b.png
Elevations expressed in cm:
8.png
The 24094 gaps do not matter in reality.

P.S.: For easing the task of climbing, trains should use the R2 curves for uphill trips. Thus, this draft is geared towards left-hand traffic operators (like in Italy). For others, the over- and underpass combination should be flipped to allow for a R2 uphill running under a right-hand regime.
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Online baggio  
#37 Posted : 20 November 2020 19:07:57(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
Al, which of the two layouts is more complicated to put together, the "slot car" clone or the other one?

I am thinking that the latter is easier and may be more susceptible to making adaptations for space or otherwise.

What say you? Smile
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#38 Posted : 20 November 2020 20:04:21(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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The double-track figure-8 requires only one single overpass, and the ramps are of equal length, which means “equal opportunity” for both lines. Bonus: Two trains can race at the same time. If you had LEGO interlocking plastic bricks, you could use them as mock-ups for testing the ramp conditions.

BTW: I’m using 5 cm styrofoam sheets for creating curved inclines, as documented here (see post #52):
https://www.marklin-user...1602-Badland-and-Hi-Land
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Offline mrmarklin  
#39 Posted : 21 November 2020 01:26:28(UTC)
mrmarklin

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Location: Burney, CA
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Hello, Everyone.

My layout is 39" by 73" and I run around this perimeter my two-way system.

Inside the above space, I run my Marklin trains.

As a result, the usable space for my Marklin portion is about 6" less all around: 33 x 67".

Both tracks are in very simple ovals, one inside the other.

I have not used my train set up very often in the last couple of years since this layout is overall pretty boring. Blushing

Question: Does anyone have any SIMPLE ideas on how to make the Marklin layout more fun (and/or how to combine the two in a more fun way)?

Ideally, I would love to have a second level, even bought one helix to do this, but the space does not seem to allow for it.

Thanks. BigGrin




This is about the size of John Allen’s original Gorre and Daphetid layout which he incorporated into the final layout he ended up building in a much larger space. I think the plan is included in 101 Layouts by Kalmbach publishing.
It’s famous enough that you could probably find the plan on the internet.
Try this. https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/33717
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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Online baggio  
#40 Posted : 21 November 2020 07:13:51(UTC)
baggio

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Posts: 1,702
Location: Toronto
A bit too advanced for me, Mr.Marklin, but thank you for the suggestion. ThumpUp

I really want to take baby steps and get a simple second level going.

To that end, I have just found lying around in my basement a rectangular sheet of plywood 34" x 61" that I have laid on top of my level 1 layout (39" x 73", including the outer oval for the DC train).

The plywood rests on top of three plastic containers, 11 cm deep, turned upside down (32 cm long and 18 cm wide).

That allows for the trains below to run as usual, albeit a big portion of the layout below is now hidden, as I obviously expected.

I do want to put on a ramp on the second floor in one fashion or another. I will experiment and see where that takes me.

Possibly, I will change the supporting containers to a different type, substantially taller.

Anyway, it's fun to experiment. Sometimes I think that the experimentation process is more fun than the finished product. OhMyGod
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#41 Posted : 21 November 2020 14:44:06(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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I created a new thread for the styrofoam ramps:
https://www.marklin-user...5827-DIY-styrofoam-ramps
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