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Offline carlostau  
#1 Posted : 29 October 2020 13:35:09(UTC)
carlostau

Argentina   
Joined: 11/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Buenos Aires, Castelar
Hello, I accidentally bought this model which is for DCM locomotives to convert an analog lok that does not have this type of collector. Unfortunately since I opened it I cannot return it.
Can anybody help me find out which locomotives are compatible with this conversion set so I can get one and put this to good use?
Thanks!
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 29 October 2020 13:56:58(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,123
Location: Paris, France
Hi Carlos

It is very difficult to answer your question. The reason is many Märklin locos made with Large (LFCM) or Small Flat Collector (SFCM) were converted around 1970-1980 to drum collector (DCM)
So the manufacturing date is more important than the model number. Example: my present 3038 loco has a DCM with early brush holder in translucent nylon while my previous 3038 was with a SFCM and raised numbers. So the model number in many cases does not give a clue.
Most models designed after 1980 have DCM
Cheers

Jean

PS In case you are interested in the various Märklin motor types, please check this https://www.stayathome.ch/motoren.htm
Offline ktsolias  
#3 Posted : 29 October 2020 19:11:06(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
With the old locomotives (4 digits cat no) you can't be sure till the time that you will open the loco.

Costas

Offline carlostau  
#4 Posted : 30 October 2020 02:26:26(UTC)
carlostau

Argentina   
Joined: 11/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Buenos Aires, Castelar
Thank you all.
Yes, it looks like the only way is to open them up
Thanks!
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#5 Posted : 30 October 2020 03:51:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
It is very difficult to answer your question.


The simple answer is anything with a DCM motor in it...

But as you rightly point out it may not be so easy to determine that just by looking at the loco. Agreed, opening up the loco is the sure way to determine that.
Offline PJMärklin  
#6 Posted : 30 October 2020 10:10:49(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,210
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
It is very difficult to answer your question.


The simple answer is anything with a DCM motor in it...

But as you rightly point out it may not be so easy to determine that just by looking at the loco. Agreed, opening up the loco is the sure way to determine that.

And even then, after opening up the loco and confirming a DCM motor is onboard, it can still be deceiving ... Sneaky ...
Years ago I had converted my old SBB Ce 6/8 Brown Crok Love (3352) with a 6080 decoder. It certainly had a DCM motor :


UserPostedImage


The loco is the "younger sibling" of my older, traditional 3015 (OO) Wub :


UserPostedImage


Yesterday I converted my 3352 further with an ESU LokPilot 4.0, also with a view to upgrading the motor to 5 pole with a 60941 kit.

Actually fitting the 60941 went fine with plenty of static breadth clearance within the body of the central unit of the Crok, but on trial
running it derailed, however only on 2221 bends. I'm sure we are all aware that the 5 pole armature is a bit longer than the 3 pole
and so the kit's permanent magnet is actually thicker than the original electromagnet piece it replaces, hence the conversion makes
the motor a bit wider (on the motorshield side) - in this case just enough to curtail the combined excursion of the rear upon the
central unit of the Crok on that side but only when moving rear-end-first (?make sense?) which was when the motershield side
imposed upon the inner surface of the central body. Not suitable to fix with some material parring.

In the past I had experienced similar problems in upgrading to 5 pole the motor on another "Crocodile", my DB BR 194 (3322),
(the "German Crocodile") which I resolved by filing a little off one spot of the central body to free up the movement Cool :


UserPostedImage


After discussions re other conversions with RayF some time ago, I have kept on hand the ESU magnets
for the three motor types to provide for such situations. The ESU magnets are the same width as the original electromagnet
units. In this case of the 3352 I changed the conversion back to the original motorshield and 3 pole armature incorporating
an ESU magnet - this gave full excursion of the articulated body movement and no more derailing. (Thanks Ray !!)

In the past I have been keen to "upgrade" my motors to 5 pole upon decoder upgrade and have usually been successful,
albeit at times needing some "workaround"; this is the first time I have been unable to do so, and thus needed to use the
ESU magnet. I must say that with the ESU decoder the 3352 motor runs fine and I really cannot see a discernable
difference to the running of my locos which have 5 pole motors and ESU decoders.
So I would somewhat endorse Dale's previous post #2 at https://www.marklin-user...read-old-locs---new-life
and can understand how some members simply use ESU magnets for all conversions, not bothering with the 5 pole motors.

For the moment I think I will continue to pursue the 5 pole motors when I can, but what an education this has been
and what a great bunch of folk we have on this forum to advise the rest of us !ThumpUp

So, even if you open up to find a DCM motor confirming your information, beware - there can still be problems OhMyGod.

PJ BigGrin

thanks 4 users liked this useful post by PJMärklin
Offline ktsolias  
#7 Posted : 31 October 2020 19:45:26(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
Hi

This is my solution to the 3352 (3556 etc) crocodile

https://www.marklin-user...dile--Digital-Conversion

Costas
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by ktsolias
Offline PJMärklin  
#8 Posted : 31 October 2020 22:55:18(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,210
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
Hi

This is my solution to the 3352 (3556 etc) crocodile

https://www.marklin-user...dile--Digital-Conversion

Costas


Thanks again Costas.
Re-viewing your great post I noted that I had seen it all but did not remember what I had read - and only three years ago !Blushing

Regards,
Philip
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by PJMärklin
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#9 Posted : 01 November 2020 01:44:14(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
So, even if you open up to find a DCM motor confirming your information, beware - there can still be problems OhMyGod.


The classic example of that is some versions of the Marklin H0 BR50 locomotives (3084) require you mount mount the motor cover for the DCM motor upside down to normal, otherwise the body cannot be put back on the loco.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline Webmaster  
#10 Posted : 01 November 2020 19:59:08(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
The classic example of that is some versions of the Marklin H0 BR50 locomotives (3084) require you mount mount the motor cover for the DCM motor upside down to normal, otherwise the body cannot be put back on the loco.

Same goes for some others too, mainly some steam locos from the 80's-90's - brush spring assembly makes contact with the body (electrical ground) - not good at all...

Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Webmaster
Offline ktsolias  
#11 Posted : 02 November 2020 10:41:11(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
The classic example of that is some versions of the Marklin H0 BR50 locomotives (3084) require you mount mount the motor cover for the DCM motor upside down to normal, otherwise the body cannot be put back on the loco.

Same goes for some others too, mainly some steam locos from the 80's-90's - brush spring assembly makes contact with the body (electrical ground) - not good at all...


Yes 3092, 3093, 3089, 3111 etc a big headache and Märklin has does nothing so far to provide a suitable motor cover.
The subject is that these locomotives were and still are very popular.
The 3pole DC solution is not the best in running characteristics.
The 60906 Decoder from Märklin is not a perfect solution either.

Hope that Märklin will help all those beautiful locos to survive in the digital era, with a new cover (the magnet and rotor are OK from the 60944 set)

Regards

Costas

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by ktsolias
Offline David2  
#12 Posted : 11 November 2020 12:35:46(UTC)
David2

Netherlands   
Joined: 22/03/2020(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: Zeeland, Vlissingen
If you have a old analog loc and you want to get it digital. Try out the Marklin 60906 mfx dcc decoder. You donot have to change the engine and you wel get a nice digital loco.
If it drives good analog it will drive digital a little beter even.
You can use this decoder for all the analog locs from Marklin.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#13 Posted : 11 November 2020 12:51:51(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,123
Location: Paris, France
Hi
It is true using a 60906 decoder is an easy way of bringing digital to an old loco. The draw back is there is no regulation of load and speed.
Another possibility is the 60760 digital kit including a new motor. It brings full regulation and is inexpensive BUT it can be used only on locos with a drum collector and is not MFX

Matter of choice
Jean
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