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Offline michelvr  
#1 Posted : 05 June 2019 18:17:04(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
As a newbie with the Märklin C track turnout motors I have a question. Occasionally when I actuate the turnout the turnout makes the click sound of actuation then sometimes a bruuuu sound. It actuated property but should I be concerned about bruuu sound. Any idea what that sound is? Or more importantly is that normal? By the way this happens randomly with all the turnouts.

Thanks 🙏
Offline Thewolf  
#2 Posted : 05 June 2019 21:24:16(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
As a newbie with the Märklin C track turnout motors I have a question. Occasionally when I actuate the turnout the turnout makes the click sound of actuation then sometimes a bruuuu sound. It actuated property but should I be concerned about bruuu sound. Any idea what that sound is? Or more importantly is that normal? By the way this happens randomly with all the turnouts.

Thanks 🙏


My god MichelCrying

You're going to start a big discussion about the 74491 motors.

Since 2012 that I have been attending the forums in either English or French, it is Marklin's item that has raised the greatest number of questions everywhere.

The 74491 and its limit switches, the 74491 and its strange noises, the 74491 and its short or long term reliability, the 74491 which never stops annoying users.

I had that noise too 2-3 years ago. For me, the brrruuuu sound is the symptom of the end of the race which will soon give way

Or something is preventing the system from working properly

I no longer hesitate: I hear this noise; the motor goes on the operating table: I cut off the limit switches.

But we'll wait for the opinion of the forum's specialist

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#3 Posted : 05 June 2019 21:42:36(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada




Is that what it is?
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline michelvr  
#4 Posted : 06 June 2019 00:07:46(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Hello Thewolf,

I hope you're kidding!

You're telling me that the fifty, 50 x 74491 turnout motors that I just installed during the last few weeks will cause me to have sleepless nights with that racket?

I was told by Mike from Westend Trains that they work fine!
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Offline Drongo  
#5 Posted : 06 June 2019 15:04:31(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello Thewolf,

I hope you're kidding!

You're telling me that the fifty, 50 x 74491 turnout motors that I just installed during the last few weeks will cause me to have sleepless nights with that racket?

I was told by Mike from Westend Trains that they work fine!


Don't believe everything the salesman tells you. As mentioned earlier, this topic has been raised many times before. I've personally have returned around 75 to 90 of these motors and Marklin just send me back more of them for me to return later. In other words - they are not reliable - rubbish. At least this is my opinion.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline Thewolf  
#6 Posted : 06 June 2019 15:09:47(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello Thewolf,

I hope you're kidding!

You're telling me that the fifty, 50 x 74491 turnout motors that I just installed during the last few weeks will cause me to have sleepless nights with that racket?

I was told by Mike from Westend Trains that they work fine!


Hi MichelCool

What does Mike say about these bruuu sounds?

Serge

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline michelvr  
#7 Posted : 06 June 2019 16:33:46(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
What does Mike say about these bruuu sounds?

Serge



I'll ask him next time i'm in Toronto.

Cheers BigGrin

Michel

Edited by moderator 07 June 2019 06:02:54(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed quote tags

Offline michelvr  
#8 Posted : 06 June 2019 16:38:18(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Don't believe everything the salesman tells you. As mentioned earlier, this topic has been raised many times before. I've personally have returned around 75 to 90 of these motors and Marklin just send me back more of them for me to return later. In other words - they are not reliable - rubbish. At least this is my opinion.


I guess the positive side to this is that they will be replaced when I experience failures?

Funny now we know how familiar I was to this problem...NOT! Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing

With the Marklin K track I used the Tortoise switch machines and never had a problem. Sad thing is that I sold all of the 96 Tortoise's that I had. Regrets I have now.Crying Crying Crying

Edited by moderator 07 June 2019 06:03:33(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed quote tags

Offline PMPeter  
#9 Posted : 06 June 2019 16:51:06(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
I remember when you were considering changing from K track to C track a number of us were advising to carefully reconsider that since you may regret that decision later. I guess you now have your first regret.

I still regret not throwing all of my 1990s C track into the trash and sticking only with K track. Now that I have gotten rid of all of my turnout motors and replaced them with servos, I have much better control with Rocrail. No more Ghost Train errors due to a malfunctioning switch motor.

Peter
Offline Purellum  
#10 Posted : 06 June 2019 17:18:40(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
As a newbie with the Märklin C track turnout motors I have a question.


Which controller do you use? If i remember correctly, there's a workaround if you use CS2 or CS3.

If my memory serves me right: You have to set the "switching time" in the CS to 200mS ( ??? )

Then the switching time will be so short, that the power is applied for such a short time, that the end-stop-switches
don't have to turn of the power to the switch-motor / coil.

( Please help me here, someone who knows this in full detail BigGrin )

Per.

Cool



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline michelvr  
#11 Posted : 06 June 2019 18:40:12(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
As a newbie with the Märklin C track turnout motors I have a question.


Which controller do you use? If i remember correctly, there's a workaround if you use CS2 or CS3.

If my memory serves me right: You have to set the "switching time" in the CS to 200mS ( ??? )

Then the switching time will be so short, that the power is applied for such a short time, that the end-stop-switches
don't have to turn of the power to the switch-motor / coil.

( Please help me here, someone who knows this in full detail BigGrin )

Per.

Cool





Hi Purellum,

I have the ESU ECoS and I have switched the switching time to 33mS. But no matter what time it is still does the same. I have not experienced any failures just the bruuu sound every so often.




Offline michelvr  
#12 Posted : 06 June 2019 18:49:01(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I remember when you were considering changing from K track to C track a number of us were advising to carefully reconsider that since you may regret that decision later. I guess you now have your first regret.

I still regret not throwing all of my 1990s C track into the trash and sticking only with K track. Now that I have gotten rid of all of my turnout motors and replaced them with servos, I have much better control with Rocrail. No more Ghost Train errors due to a malfunctioning switch motor.

Peter



Hello Peter,

Yes I remember but I'm i sucker for trying something new. Besides the bruuu sound which occasionally happens when switching i have not had a turnout motor fail. I'm only at number 12 with my wiring installation and will have the other 38 done before the Marklin-user.met meet June 15!

Here's a sample of what I’m doing with the wiring.

Cheers!

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Offline Danlake  
#13 Posted : 06 June 2019 22:42:45(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Michel,

Here is my experience and knowledge in terms of Marklin turnout mechanism:

If you have older 74490 and 74491 version 1 you will eventually have failures unless you modify them self by bridging the shut off mechanisms (lots of videos on YouTube how to this modification which is fairly easy).

If you have newer 74491 version 2 which I believed was produced from 2018 and onwards (there is no official version 2 but users have noticed difference in pcb and components), some claims it may be more reliable.

My advise if controlling the turnouts digitally:

1. Do the modification regardless of version
Or
2. Make sure you cut access hole in the baseboard so you can easily replace them as hopefully your dealer will replace them under warranty.

Regarding the noise. I also have that noise on some of my turnouts (regardless of version or modified or not). I did find it help a bit to lower the activation time to around 100ms. After +5 years of use the noise itself does not seem to have resulted in any failures.

PS: after modifying turnouts I never had any subsequent failures.

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Thewolf  
#14 Posted : 06 June 2019 22:47:18(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi Michel,

Here is my experience and knowledge in terms of Marklin turnout mechanism:

If you have older 74490 and 74491 version 1 you will eventually have failures unless you modify them self by bridging the shut off mechanisms (lots of videos on YouTube how to this modification which is fairly easy).

If you have newer 74491 version 2 which I believed was produced from 2018 and onwards (there is no official version 2 but users have noticed difference in pcb and components), some claims it may be more reliable.

My advise if controlling the turnouts digitally:

1. Do the modification regardless of version
Or
2. Make sure you cut access hole in the baseboard so you can easily replace them as hopefully your dealer will replace them under warranty.

Regarding the noise. I also have that noise on some of my turnouts (regardless of version or modified or not). I did find it help a bit to lower the activation time to around 100ms. After +5 years of use the noise itself does not seem to have resulted in any failures.

PS: after modifying turnouts I never had any subsequent failures.

Best Regards
Lasse


All is said and done Cool

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline michelvr  
#15 Posted : 06 June 2019 22:52:00(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi Michel,

Here is my experience and knowledge in terms of Marklin turnout mechanism:

If you have older 74490 and 74491 version 1 you will eventually have failures unless you modify them self by bridging the shut off mechanisms (lots of videos on YouTube how to this modification which is fairly easy).

If you have newer 74491 version 2 which I believed was produced from 2018 and onwards (there is no official version 2 but users have noticed difference in pcb and components), some claims it may be more reliable.

My advise if controlling the turnouts digitally:

1. Do the modification regardless of version
Or
2. Make sure you cut access hole in the baseboard so you can easily replace them as hopefully your dealer will replace them under warranty.

Regarding the noise. I also have that noise on some of my turnouts (regardless of version or modified or not). I did find it help a bit to lower the activation time to around 100ms. After +5 years of use the noise itself does not seem to have resulted in any failures.

PS: after modifying turnouts I never had any subsequent failures.

Best Regards
Lasse


Hello Lasse,

Thank you for the recommendations, appreciated and duly noted. While I was in the building phase i did create access holes so hopefully everything is covered!

Regards,

MIchel
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Offline rrf  
#16 Posted : 07 June 2019 21:53:58(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Hello,

I have around thirty of the 74490/74491s. The oldest are probably 15 years old and the youngest are dated 2015. So far I have had three fail. Though the point about automation impacting the failure rate seems rather important as two of my three failures have been in the last couple of weeks as I programmed my first CS3 event driven routes.

So my question is ... has anyone found a good replacement from another vendor? I found the Viessmann 4554 but it is a combination turnout motor and decoder. I simply wish to have a motor to use with my M83s.

Thanks,

Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline michelvr  
#17 Posted : 08 June 2019 00:14:02(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Your question is a very good one!

Since I’m the originator of this post my answer is NO.

Has anyone found a good replacement from another vendor?
Offline michelvr  
#18 Posted : 08 June 2019 03:29:42(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Hello Rob,

It's an interesting topic because I never paid any attention to the posts highlighting all the issues with the turnout motor 74491!

I know nothing of the problems!

Reminds me of John Banner, AKA Sergent Schult:

.

It's too late now but I’m hopeful they work and if I do succumb to failures at least I made a access opening through the plywood so that I can remove them if the need ever arises.

Now to the facts about turnout motors. The only turnout motor that I know of that has never failed me in any way is the Circuitron's ”Tortoise Swith Machine” period. So if the preverbal “Scheisse hits the fan” then that's the route I will take.

Regards,

Michel
Offline rrf  
#19 Posted : 08 June 2019 13:14:36(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
It's an interesting topic because I never paid any attention to the posts highlighting all the issues with the turnout motor 74491!

<stuff deleted>

It's too late now but I’m hopeful they work and if I do succumb to failures at least I made a access opening through the plywood so that I can remove them if the need ever arises.

Now to the facts about turnout motors. The only turnout motor that I know of that has never failed me in any way is the Circuitron's ”Tortoise Switch Machine” period. So if the preverbal “Scheisse hits the fan” then that's the route I will take.

Hello Michel,

I too never seriously thought about the historic problems folks had until I read this thread. My reading just happened to coincide with the day I had to replace two of the eight switch motors on my test ovals. These two motors would fail to work intermittently, which of course wrought havoc with my route events.

So I'm now concerned about the automation I plan to implement on my permanent layout. Even a 10% failure rate implies a lot of train wrecks and a lot of extra effort replacing motors. With my pending summer break from Model Railroad construction (It's long past time to start working on the RC Combat Warships), I have four or five months until my new modular layout furniture will be ready for track laying. So I have a little bit of time to decide whether to invest in more 74491s.

BTW, I looked at the Circuitron site. Their motor doesn't appear to be easily modifiable for C-Track. Not to mention the site hasn't been updated for years and they do not take credit card or PayPal ... so I am a little leery about them as a vendor.

Good luck with your motors!

Regards,
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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Offline michelvr  
#20 Posted : 08 June 2019 15:18:37(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Hi Rob,

You're quite right with their website it hasn't changed in years but maybe that is because it's stood the test of time. The Tortoise switch machines work as advertised and as mentioned I never had a failure in any of the 96 that I owned.

Concerning Märklin's C track turnouts I haven’t experimented with the Tortoise switch machine as of yet but if the need arises I will let you know.

Regards,
Michel

Edited by user 08 June 2019 18:53:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Thewolf  
#21 Posted : 08 June 2019 20:25:27(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi Michel Cool

I see you still don't have a completely serene mind with the 74491s.

You always get the wrong impression that they're going to let you go one of these days.

So I'll tell you what, okay? Your motors, they are new and you didn't buy them during the bad period of these motors that went, if my memories are good between 2012 (74490) and 2014-2015 .

Your motors represent the new generation of the 74491s to which Marklin has made some modifications over the past 2-3 years. I can be wrong in the dates.

But one thing is certain: Marklin considers them reliable. But it's like everything else in electronics, mechanics, it can give way one day.

If unfortunately a 74491 fails, that's not why it's bulshit!

So have fun and enjoy your meeting. In my opinion, there will be a lot of talk about the 74491s during this meeting.

If Mike's invited, he's gonna get his ears full of it.Laugh Laugh BigGrin Flapper

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline michelvr  
#22 Posted : 08 June 2019 22:23:32(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Hello Serge,

I'm keeping your optimism right up there with the 74491 turnout motors never failing. BigGrin

We should have fun next weekend but you know, you could come to Barrie too! It's only a six and a half hour drive from Longueuil. Nothing is stopping you! Remember I lived in Montréal before I moved to Toronto and then Barrie. I did the trip almost every other weekend until my girlfriend moved here. It would be a good excuse to see a little bit of Canada, eh!

BTW: Mike is invited so hopefully he will come too. So far around five people confirmed.

Until then, have a great weekend!
Offline applor  
#23 Posted : 30 September 2020 06:31:53(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I am bumping this topic back up because while my layout is K track I have opted to use C track for my new hidden staging yard as it is cheaper.

I have purchased 74491's for the motors since I used the 75491 with K track and bridged them and they've been 100% reliable.

The thing is after opening up the 74491 it seems the new style is different with the contact only having 2 pins and a capacitor in between.

Can these even be bridged? Has anyone experienced failure with this new design - maybe they really don't need to be bridged (if they can in any case)

IMG_8394.jpg
IMG_8395.jpg
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline JohnjeanB  
#24 Posted : 30 September 2020 11:23:50(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
I am bumping this topic back up because while my layout is K track I have opted to use C track for my new hidden staging yard as it is cheaper.

I have purchased 74491's for the motors since I used the 75491 with K track and bridged them and they've been 100% reliable.

The thing is after opening up the 74491 it seems the new style is different with the contact only having 2 pins and a capacitor in between.

Can these even be bridged? Has anyone experienced failure with this new design - maybe they really don't need to be bridged (if they can in any case)

IMG_8394.jpg
IMG_8395.jpg

Hi Applor
Yes you have 2 micro-switches and each one has to be bridged.
When doing this it is recommended NOT to use the old 6083 or 60830 but rather the 60831
The reason is the older M83 waits for an order to switch off and if it misses it, it remains ON thus burning itself and the solenoid when the end switches are shorted.
On the newer 60831, the device locally turns-off after 200 mS (can go up to 500 mS but for longer durations goes for burst of activations)
Cheers
Jean
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Offline applor  
#25 Posted : 30 September 2020 23:24:04(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
As I said I've already done this before with K track 75491's. I use Lenz decoders set to 100ms switch time.

These new 74491's only have 2 pins instead of the 3 pins the older ones and the 75491's had. You say the 2 poles are to be bridged? Has anyone done this before?
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline JohnjeanB  
#26 Posted : 30 September 2020 23:30:00(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
I have
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Offline Rwill  
#27 Posted : 01 October 2020 00:06:46(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
I shall make an observation which I hope is not deemed "off topic". I have over time used 74491 old style and the new style as shown above and these have been powered through 6083 and 60831 from MS2 and CS2. I have encountered all the issues written about this subject "solved" through soldering bridges, squirting WD40 and a couple of many year old darlings which simply work fine. But my L shaped layout is built currently in the dining room which still contains the large dining table which management doesn't seem that keen on me drilling wiring holes through the table! It is rather cumbersome and access to far parts "difficult". For the last few additions to the track I have purchased the set 24802 which comprise a pair of standard turnouts fitted with 74491 and a slightly out of date decoder (switches not MFX) plus some useful track. The price seems quite sensible. They are assembled and wired in factory conditions and look very neat and tidy. And over time I have not had any of the "normal" problems and I have purchased within the same timescale some 74491s which have all had the bridging solution through necessity.. It puzzles me why Marklin stick to a design that allows analogue users first priority. I am sure that most C track layouts are digital although I accept that quite a few people stick to pushbutton wired turnouts. I have a suspicion that Marklin may have addressed the issue in the set I describe. All these turnouts will be used in a digital manner and I wonder if they have simply bridged them in the factory.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#28 Posted : 01 October 2020 12:27:16(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi Rwill
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
It puzzles me why Marklin stick to a design that allows analogue users first priority. I am sure that most C track layouts are digital although I accept that quite a few people stick to pushbutton wired turnouts. I have a suspicion that Marklin may have addressed the issue in the set I describe. All these turnouts will be used in a digital manner and I wonder if they have simply bridged them in the factory.

You are quite correct but there are still many enthusiasts who stick to the analogue mode. However Märklin is changing towards "all-digital" with the new turntable which is digital only.
Cheers
Jean

Offline hxmiesa  
#29 Posted : 01 October 2020 13:25:16(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
...I have a suspicion that Marklin may have addressed the issue in the set I describe. All these turnouts will be used in a digital manner and I wonder if they have simply bridged them in the factory.

Can you open one up and check?

In the "old days", both switches and signals could withstand being powered continuosly! I would think that would still be possible to design today, but for some reason M doesnt. Because of cost maybe?

In any case; Even if a user prefers to use push-buttons, the end-switches should still be bridged/removed. -If you want to be certain that the switches change!
I would think that it is only becasue of the contact-tracks that they are necessary, as these can be activated permanently, when something stops on top of them...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Rwill  
#30 Posted : 01 October 2020 13:50:44(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post

Can you open one up and check?
.


Simple answer - NO - unless one fails!

If you saw the beautiful finish on this item and compared it to some of my handiwork you would understand!





Offline JohnjeanB  
#31 Posted : 01 October 2020 14:39:04(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
In the "old days", both switches and signals could withstand being powered continuosly! I would think that would still be possible to design today, but for some reason M doesnt. Because of cost maybe?

Hi
In the old days (from early 1950) the solenoids were also burning, just more slowly with the nylon part of the coil bending inwards to lock the inner core both on M switches and on signals. On my first layout I burned some with trains stopping on contact tracks
Here is an old 5202 double switch and its solenoids.

5202-IMG_3392.png (2,729kb) downloaded 25 time(s).


Here is a 1949 signal

EinespuleAntrieb.jpg

Regards
Jean

Edited by user 01 October 2020 19:09:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline michelvr  
#32 Posted : 01 October 2020 15:51:41(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Greeting from Canada,

As the originator of this post concerning the Turnout motor 74491, “Occasionally a bruuu sound then silence operation” posted on 05 June 2019.

Previously I found out that if I loosen the two holding screws a little and make sure that the mechanism was totally free moving the “bruuu” sound would stop on that particular turnout. It seemed that possibly putting torsional stress on the turnout motor 74491 causes the offensive “bruuu” sound.

It is now October 1, 2020 and yesterday I turned on the power to my layout. I switched each and every turnout on my layout and I can report;

That about half of my turnout motors made the occasional “bruuu” sound in on one direction only. So the cause may be the lack of movement over time and they somehow resist the movement when the solenoid is actuated.

Now that it is the season for operating my model layout I will post more information.

Best regards!
Offline David Dewar  
#33 Posted : 01 October 2020 16:29:07(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
Keep them clean and as said do not over tighten the screws and a drop of oil or a WD40 spray will keep them going for years. At least they do for me. Also make sure the turnouts are clean and move freely. Over the years I have found that model railways need constant and regular checking to keep everything moving.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#34 Posted : 01 October 2020 16:34:16(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi Michel
Yes it happens sometimes. This is when the core of the switch motor bounce back.

There is an oscillation due to the end switches in the motor and the switch mechanism which includes a spring to force it in 2 stable positions.

Unscrewing the motor IMO is a bad idea as I have seen many times the motor drive tongue go under / over the switch little command axle and get stuck (then you have to remove the switch and near-by rails to fix it).
Cheers
Jean
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Offline hxmiesa  
#35 Posted : 02 October 2020 06:53:07(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
In the old days (from early 1950) the solenoids were also burning, just more slowly with the nylon part of the coil bending inwards to lock the inner core both on M switches and on signals. On my first layout I burned some with trains stopping on contact tracks
Here is an old 5202 double switch and its solenoids.
5202-IMG_3392.png (2,729kb) downloaded 25 time(s).

I am referring to the type/age of the DKW that you show. My experience is that they never burned, despite being activated continuously. As in "hours". Not permanently, as in "days"... Cool

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#36 Posted : 02 October 2020 10:39:11(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi
I am afraid your memory is a bit rosy. The solenoids would burn. Not after 1 minute like the present ones but after 10 minutes the nylon start to be out of shape and the core does not slide Smoothly anymore
Jean
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