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Offline carlostau  
#1 Posted : 11 July 2020 14:32:35(UTC)
carlostau

Argentina   
Joined: 11/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Buenos Aires, Castelar
Hello everybody.
I was given a small set (S + E) when I was 6 years old.. (1977) which I am really fond to and used throughout my childhood
A couple years ago I decided to expand it so I bought the necessary tracks, signals and crossings to build the Example 2 which is presented in the 1972 tracks layout book
The tracks are all set but I am having a hard time trying to figure out how to combine the signals and/ or train directions in which this should be operated.
I understand the wiring process but the track switching and isolation is giving me a hard time (I am posting here the layout scheme)
I plan to run 2 trains on this.
Also, the book mentions automatic train control.. I assume you need a different track on certain points to trigger the signals by the passing train?
Finally and as a side project I am considering working on an arduino based control box for the signals that emulate the control boxes but with push-buttons and leds to show the state of each signal and crossing. Has anyone work with this? I did a search here but could not find anything on the analog M tracks.
Thanks for taking the time to read this! I hope to learn a lot from such a great community.

UserPostedImage
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by carlostau
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 11 July 2020 19:22:54(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Carlos
Welcome to the forum. Your project is very nice.

Standard signal wiring
1- Before the signal you need a track length of 360 mm to be isolated on both ends: the Stop Section
2- one of the signal contacts (red cable with a contact shoe) must be connected outside of the stop section and the other one connected to the stop section
3- make sure that all rails outside the stop sections receive power by adding the necessary connections to the B output of your transformer.

Additions to signal for bi-directional operation

Principle:
- add a relay driven by direction-dependent contact tracks (5146, 5147 or 5213 respectively 1/2 straight, normal radius, parallel radius)
- connect the first contact track so that when approaching the signal stop zone from the reverse direction, the relay contact will close thus feeding the stop track so that the loco will not stop on a closed signal "coming from behind".
- connect the second contact track so that when approaching the signal stop zone from the front direction, the relay contact will open thus not feeding the stop track so that the loco will stop on a closed signal when coming from the front.(see point 2 above)
The relay contacts are connected in parallel with the signal
I hope this helps
Jean

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 11 July 2020 19:38:09(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Carlos
Welcome to the forum. Your project is very nice.

Standard signal wiring
1- Before the signal you need a track length of 360 mm to be isolated on both ends: the Stop Section
2- one of the signal contacts (red cable with a contact shoe) must be connected outside of the stop section and the other one connected to the stop section
3- make sure that all rails outside the stop sections receive power by adding the necessary connections to the B output of your transformer.

Additions to signal for bi-directional operation

Principle:
- add a relay driven by direction-dependent contact tracks (5146, 5147 or 5213 respectively 1/2 straight, normal radius, parallel radius)
- connect the first contact track so that when approaching the signal stop zone from the reverse direction, the relay contact will close the feeding of the stop track so that the loco will not stop on a closed signal "coming from behind".
- connect the second contact track so that when approaching the signal stop zone from the front direction, the relay contact will open the feeding of the stop track so that the loco will stop on a closed signal when coming from the front.(see point 2 above)
The relay contacts are connected in parallel with the signal's contacts
I hope this helps
Jean

Offline carlostau  
#4 Posted : 11 July 2020 20:47:28(UTC)
carlostau

Argentina   
Joined: 11/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Buenos Aires, Castelar
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Carlos
Welcome to the forum. Your project is very nice.

Standard signal wiring
1- Before the signal you need a track length of 360 mm to be isolated on both ends: the Stop Section
2- one of the signal contacts (red cable with a contact shoe) must be connected outside of the stop section and the other one connected to the stop section
3- make sure that all rails outside the stop sections receive power by adding the necessary connections to the B output of your transformer.

Additions to signal for bi-directional operation

Principle:
- add a relay driven by direction-dependent contact tracks (5146, 5147 or 5213 respectively 1/2 straight, normal radius, parallel radius)
- connect the first contact track so that when approaching the signal stop zone from the reverse direction, the relay contact will close thus feeding the stop track so that the loco will not stop on a closed signal "coming from behind".
- connect the second contact track so that when approaching the signal stop zone from the front direction, the relay contact will open thus not feeding the stop track so that the loco will stop on a closed signal when coming from the front.(see point 2 above)
The relay contacts are connected in parallel with the signal
I hope this helps
Jean



Thank you for your input. Unfortunately due the current situation, I cannot get the contact tracks here in Argentina. So I think I will have to manage the circulation manually..
If I understand correctly, the track plan shows where the signal contacts are placed with these black triangles. Is that correct? Or are those the isolation points?
I will try to upload a pic to see if that clarifies the point. Thanks again
Offline JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 11 July 2020 21:55:17(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Carlos
Originally Posted by: carlostau Go to Quoted Post

If I understand correctly, the track plan shows where the signal contacts are placed with these black triangles. Is that correct? Or are those the isolation points?

No, the triangles show where the insulation pieces need installing.
The contact shoes need to be installed between rails where no insulation pieces are. One shall be in the middle of the stop section (typically 2 to 3 rails) and the other outside.
Be sure that all sections outside of stops are powered at all times.
I include an old Märklin manual on signals
0340Signalbook EN.pdf (5,626kb) downloaded 58 time(s).
Cheers
Jean


Offline carlostau  
#6 Posted : 11 July 2020 22:12:46(UTC)
carlostau

Argentina   
Joined: 11/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Buenos Aires, Castelar
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Carlos
Originally Posted by: carlostau Go to Quoted Post

If I understand correctly, the track plan shows where the signal contacts are placed with these black triangles. Is that correct? Or are those the isolation points?

No, the triangles show where the insulation pieces need installing.
The contact shoes need to be installed between rails where no insulation pieces are. One shall be in the middle of the stop section (typically 2 to 3 rails) and the other outside.
Be sure that all sections outside of stops are powered at all times.
I include an old Märklin manual on signals
0340Signalbook EN.pdf (5,626kb) downloaded 58 time(s).
Cheers
Jean




Thanks Jean!
Yes, it makes sense. In fact upon re reading the track plan I noticed the definitions used on the books to identify signals, houses, etc on the plans.
Will try to make it work.
I did notice it needs a 7211 box which I guess is for the circuit separation of the trains? Not sure yet how these work. Are they mere on/off switches?
thanks
Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 11 July 2020 22:30:29(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Carlos
7211 boxes are a group of 4 independent switches (no common pole) packed in a blue control-room-like buttons. They are perfect for powering branch lines
The 7210 boxes are very similar to the 7211, the only difference is that all switches are all connected a a same common pole.
Stellpult.jpg
Cheers
Jean
Offline carlostau  
#8 Posted : 11 July 2020 23:57:30(UTC)
carlostau

Argentina   
Joined: 11/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Buenos Aires, Castelar
Thanks!
$2,50.. lol
Offline carlostau  
#9 Posted : 12 July 2020 15:48:34(UTC)
carlostau

Argentina   
Joined: 11/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Buenos Aires, Castelar
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Carlos
Originally Posted by: carlostau Go to Quoted Post

If I understand correctly, the track plan shows where the signal contacts are placed with these black triangles. Is that correct? Or are those the isolation points?

No, the triangles show where the insulation pieces need installing.
The contact shoes need to be installed between rails where no insulation pieces are. One shall be in the middle of the stop section (typically 2 to 3 rails) and the other outside.
Be sure that all sections outside of stops are powered at all times.
I include an old Märklin manual on signals
0340Signalbook EN.pdf (5,626kb) downloaded 58 time(s).
Cheers
Jean



Hi Jean I found a color track plan for this which kinda makes it a bit clearer.
Based on what I read I have marked the places where the signal contacts should go.
Does it look ok to you?
Signal location
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