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Offline fossie  
#1 Posted : 08 June 2020 14:53:12(UTC)
fossie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: ,
Dear All

My Marklin BR24 p/n 36242 has died.... No sounds, no movement no smoke and it shorts out my ecos 50200 when placed on the track. I have had several issues with it in the past. It has been back to Marklin twice and had the decoder replaced and a new Motor. I have opened it up and I believe the decoder has gone again. The model is now out of warranty and my question is will the Marklin 60975 msd/3 decoder be a suitable replacement. Will it fit in the tender and do the smoke etc... Or do you recommend another decoder.

Thanks for your help on this.

Regards


Andy

Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 08 June 2020 19:10:38(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 993
Location: Paris, France
Hi Andy

I just had a similar problem with my BR 58 (37589) where the decoder did not drive the motor anymore (all the rest was fine, sound, functions, etc).
So I purchased a 60975 Sound decoder with a platine the get the decoder with the 21 MTC interface.
On Märklin's website I downloaded the sound project for my loco on my PC using Märklin's mDecoderTool3 and programmed it with my CS2.
It worked fine except for the Telex which was incorrectly set (I had to set it to negative level (Negativ Pegel). Now the loco works fine.

So I guess for your loco it should be the same:
- open mDecoderTool3 on your PC and download the Sound project for your loco (from its reference number): In your case select the m36 directory and then 36244 (BR 24). Normally it should be very close to your loco configuration.
- connect your CS2 with a memory stick to the PC and start programming (takes 40 mins)
- make sure your Telex is not permanently ON (it could be destroyed after a while)
Let me know if you have a problem
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline fossie  
#3 Posted : 08 June 2020 19:33:26(UTC)
fossie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: ,
Hi Jean

Thanks for the reply... Unfortunately I don't have a cs2 I have an ecos 50200. But the decoder should still work ok and as I understand it comes already programmed with steam sounds on it?.

Regards

Andy
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 08 June 2020 20:09:35(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 993
Location: Paris, France
Yes Andy
I think there is also an output for telex in the factory settings
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline Johnvr  
#5 Posted : 08 June 2020 22:38:22(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,192
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hello Jean

I have a CS2 60215.

Is it possible for me to update my mSD3 Sound Decoders 60985 for the loco sounds which I want to select, for example the BR53, but without connecting the CS2 to the internet ?
For example, is it possible to load the sounds onto a USB memory stick downloaded from the Marklin website, and then insert my USB into the CS2 and update the sounds from there on my decoder ?

I'm a bit nervous to try it out for fear of choking up the CS2.

Regards
John
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 08 June 2020 23:34:43(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 993
Location: Paris, France
Hi John
IMO all MSD3 decoders are the same the only differences:
- sound programming (Electric, Diesel or steam)
- interface : 21 pin (MTC Platine), prewired (Kabelbaum) or with flexible PCB interface for lights
So any decoder may be programmed using the mDecoderTool3.
So you need to have your PC online to download any Sound project you wish and store it on your computer
In a second phase you need to connect your PC to your CS2 and program your decoder even in absence of Internet, using the mDecoderTool and a USB memory stick plugged on your CS2 before booting-up.
mDecoderTool3 will allow to select the stored sound project and during the programming phase it will:
1- transfer 4 files to the the USB memory
2- Program the decoder
3- Reset the decoder(don't touch your CS2 until programming is finished with the reset done
4- erase the files on the USB memory

Note: Sound projects are different for mSD2 and for mSD3 decoders: same sound, smaller capacity for mSD2.
I hope this answers your question
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 09 June 2020 03:03:21(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,119
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: fossie Go to Quoted Post
Dear All

My Marklin BR24 p/n 36242 has died.... No sounds, no movement no smoke and it shorts out my ecos 50200 when placed on the track. I have had several issues with it in the past. It has been back to Marklin twice and had the decoder replaced and a new Motor. I have opened it up and I believe the decoder has gone again. The model is now out of warranty and my question is will the Marklin 60975 msd/3 decoder be a suitable replacement. Will it fit in the tender and do the smoke etc... Or do you recommend another decoder.

Thanks for your help on this.

Regards


Andy



Andy, I would send it back to Märklin again, regardless being out of Warranty, I'm sure you can proof the loco they've fixed, they didn't fix properly and therefore and extended warranty is warranted.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline fossie  
#8 Posted : 29 June 2020 12:10:31(UTC)
fossie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: ,
Dear All

I went for the option and purchased the Marklin 60975 msd steam sounds decoder kit and installed the decoder in the tender of the br24 (36242). Now the locomotive will produce all the sounds but there are some issues.
1) The locomotive runs fine backwards with the lights working. But going forward it moves jerky and the front head lights do not work.
2) The smoke option is always on even if the F1 option is not selected.

I have an ecos 50200 so can not program the decoder with the sounds of the br24. The only other option is to resend it back to Marklin for its third repair out of warranty.

Any ideas

Thanks for your help

Andy
Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 29 June 2020 12:44:27(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 993
Location: Paris, France
Hi Andy
Regarding the front light and motor not working correctly in forward, I would reset the decoder (CV8=8)
As for programming I know how to do it with a CS2 but not with an ecos 50200 and I believe Märklin does not include the list of all CVs with the MSD3 kit notice
I would not resend to factory because, they will replace the decoder, repair the loco, charge you a lot (150 € minimum plus shipment) and you will have to wait quite a while.

Additional things to check:
- the wire to front light not broken and the return wire to common plus is OK
- absence of mechanical issues but removing the decoder, powering the motor with a 5 to 10 VDC and see how it runs
- checking the wiring of the smoke unit (central part connected to AUX1?
My experience with Märklin support is they are good on obvious failures but very poor on intermittent issues.
Here is the pin-out of the decoder (21MTC)
21 MTC Pinbelegung.png


Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline fossie  
#10 Posted : 29 June 2020 12:56:06(UTC)
fossie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: ,
Hi Jean

Thanks for your reply on this. I will try resetting the CV to 8. One thing I did not mention is I plugged the new decoder into the existing pcb in the tender not the one supplied in the 60975 kit as there is a pcb soldered on to it for the rear lights.
Do you think this will cause an issue or should I use the pcb in the kit and then have a problem with connecting the rear light pcb.

Regards

Andy
Offline kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 29 June 2020 13:40:29(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,211
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: fossie Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jean

Thanks for your reply on this. I will try resetting the CV to 8. One thing I did not mention is I plugged the new decoder into the existing pcb in the tender not the one supplied in the 60975 kit as there is a pcb soldered on to it for the rear lights.
Do you think this will cause an issue or should I use the pcb in the kit and then have a problem with connecting the rear light pcb.

Regards

Andy


I suspect your problem is a case of needing to correctly map the function outputs to the CVs. There is no guarantee that a bog standard decoder from Marklin will match a fitted decoder for CV settings as they are so configurable, and the PCB you plug onto is likely to have been laid out to suit production requirements, not off the shelf settings.

When i did the factory tour at the IMA last year you could see the operator fitting the decoder put it into a programmer just before fitting it into the loco, so the sound file used could well be a special one.
Offline fossie  
#12 Posted : 29 June 2020 14:20:12(UTC)
fossie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: ,
Hi

Can these cv's be re programmed by the ecos 50200 or do I need to purchase the Märklin 60971 decoder programmer.

Regards

Andy
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 30 June 2020 09:25:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,792
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: fossie Go to Quoted Post
Can these cv's be re programmed by the ecos 50200 or do I need to purchase the Märklin 60971 decoder programmer.
The CVs can be programmed with the ECoS 50200, or the ECoS 50000, or the ECoS 60212 - to name just a few.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline fossie  
#14 Posted : 30 June 2020 16:10:24(UTC)
fossie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: ,
Hi Tom

thanks for your reply... The decoder is setup for mfx by default and the only CV I have set is CV 8 factory defaults... It made no difference. What other CV's do you recommend I try?. Am I right in thinking all the other CV's can only be accessed when the decoder is configured in the MM format and not mfx format.

Regards

Andy
Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 30 June 2020 18:10:03(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,211
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Where abouts are you Andy, maybe someone can come and help.

Offline fossie  
#16 Posted : 30 June 2020 18:34:37(UTC)
fossie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: ,
Hi

I live in Lichfield, Staffordshire...

Cheers

Andy

Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 30 June 2020 19:35:19(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,792
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: fossie Go to Quoted Post
Am I right in thinking all the other CV's can only be accessed when the decoder is configured in the MM format and not mfx format.
No.
When in mfx mode, forget about the CVs and edit the advanced loco settings.

There you define what happens when you activate F0, F1, and so forth.
UserPostedImage
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline fossie  
#18 Posted : 30 June 2020 20:00:49(UTC)
fossie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: ,
Hi Tom

Thanks for your reply.... Just tried it and under that option and it displays the following message.

"No settable parameters for the selected decoder profile in this menu".

Incidentally the same mfx loco with the old failed decoder has entry's in that option on the ecos 50200.

Do you think I will need to purchase the Märklin H0 60971 Decoder-Programmer to fix the problem?.

Thanks again

Andy



Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 30 June 2020 20:27:07(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,792
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: fossie Go to Quoted Post
Do you think I will need to purchase the Märklin H0 60971 Decoder-Programmer to fix the problem?
I don't think so.

You can still disable M4 in the ECoS and use DCC CV programming to make the changes.
Theoretically the ECoS should give you a user-friendly UI for mfx decoders if M4 is enabled, but somehow this does not seem to work for you.

With the decoder programmer you will also have a GUI to make the changes. But theoretically this is not the only option.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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