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Offline Drongo  
#1 Posted : 07 February 2020 05:13:32(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,034
Location: Sydney, NSW
I'm totally confused with how to wire up the Marklin turntable using a LDT-DEC decoder and using traincontroller.

On page 5 of the LDT manual it shows the diagram how to connect the TDT decoder - I've done this. Then I need to have feedback reports for TrainController for occupancy. On page 15 the diagram then changes, intaht a brown wire from the booster is removed and a s88 contact is replaced.

Can anyone shine some light on this, please.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline applor  
#2 Posted : 07 February 2020 06:16:17(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,424
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
The diagram on page 5 is with no detection, so both rails are wired to earth and that is it.

The diagram on page 15 now has one of those rails wired to an S88 input for occupancy detection. It also has the two terminals on the right end terminated for input to S88 to indicate the position has been reached.
The two S88 inputs are indicated by the two blue wires, one for occupancy and one for position reached. The third wire (brown) is for an earth reference to the S88.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline Drongo  
#3 Posted : 07 February 2020 10:37:08(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,034
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
The diagram on page 5 is with no detection, so both rails are wired to earth and that is it.

The diagram on page 15 now has one of those rails wired to an S88 input for occupancy detection. It also has the two terminals on the right end terminated for input to S88 to indicate the position has been reached.
The two S88 inputs are indicated by the two blue wires, one for occupancy and one for position reached. The third wire (brown) is for an earth reference to the S88.


Thanks for the information. So, I need to follow the diagram on page 15.

I've done this, however, the s88 occupancy for the bridge is always on - why ?
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 07 February 2020 11:48:11(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: Paris, France
Hi
One possible cause is the presence of contacts at rails extremities on the bridge (which can short with fixed rails
Another is not having changed the turntable wiring.
UserPostedImage
On the flat cable, brown and orange wires must not be connected together.
UserPostedImage

I hope this helps
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline Drongo  
#5 Posted : 08 February 2020 03:54:31(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,034
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Jean,
I've tested the 2 rails on the bridge and they are definitely electrically isolated
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline applor  
#6 Posted : 08 February 2020 04:06:39(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,424
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jean,
I've tested the 2 rails on the bridge and they are definitely electrically isolated


From each other, yes. But as Jean says there are metal tabs at each end of the turntable rails which connect those two rails electrically with the spoke track they are aligned with.
If those spoke tracks rails are connected (to earth) then the turntable rails will also be earthed and as such always show occupancy.
This is clearly what is happening with your turntable.

There are two ways to deal with this:
You can do what I did and remove those metal tabs at each end of the turntable (remove the centre conductor piece at the same time) OR
You need to make sure the spoke track rails are isolated by cutting the rail or using isolators immediately after the spoke piece.

The first is the better method but does involve modifying your turntable so may detract from resale if you don't plan to keep it.
To remove the metal tabs you really need to take the bridge piece off the turntable and pull it apart.
A good idea to paint/weather the turntable while its out.

I can assist further but best to read the guide I also followed first about all things 7286 turntable:

https://translate.google...-7286.html&edit-text

edit: also there is a coil installed under the turntable where the ribbon wire comes off, it is underneath the small plastic cover.
Best to remove the cover and the coil.

Some of my turntable work is in my layout thread from #178 on:
https://www.marklin-user...date-31st-Jan-2020/page4

Also have a read through my other turntable thread so you're aware of some problems that can occur:
https://www.marklin-user...ht-issue-and-no-stepping
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline Ross  
#7 Posted : 08 February 2020 05:38:34(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 706
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Greg,

Don't cut the tabs but isolate both rails at the end of the spoke.
Read my documentation as it shows you what to do.

This is how I setup you TT on your first layout.


Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jean,
I've tested the 2 rails on the bridge and they are definitely electrically isolated
Ross
Offline Drongo  
#8 Posted : 09 February 2020 04:30:00(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,034
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Ross,
Thanks for the help.
I have one question - "Turntable Bridge" - where and how do I attach the brown wire to the rail on the TT ?

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline Ross  
#9 Posted : 10 February 2020 05:17:20(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 706
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Greg,

The flat ribbon cable that is used on the Marklin turntable should plug direct into the LDT turntable module see LDT wiring (501)
The brown and orange wires in the ribbon cable are connected to the rails of the TT bridge.

Hope this answers you question.


Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ross,
Thanks for the help.
I have one question - "Turntable Bridge" - where and how do I attach the brown wire to the rail on the TT ?

Regards
Greg


Ross
Offline Drongo  
#10 Posted : 11 February 2020 07:25:38(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,034
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Hi Greg,

The flat ribbon cable that is used on the Marklin turntable should plug direct into the LDT turntable module see LDT wiring (501)
The brown and orange wires in the ribbon cable are connected to the rails of the TT bridge.

Hope this answers you question.


Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ross,
Thanks for the help.
I have one question - "Turntable Bridge" - where and how do I attach the brown wire to the rail on the TT ?

Regards
Greg




Hi Ross,

We've had a blackout here in Sydney for a couple of days due to the thunderstorms - it never rains , it pours.

Yes, I know that the brown and orange wires connect to the bridge rails, however, exactly where do I connect the wire for the s88 to the orange wire ?

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline French_Fabrice  
#11 Posted : 11 February 2020 21:42:08(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,255
Location: Lyon, France
Hello Greg,

I hope this will clarify the wiring of the TT, with the TT-DEC decoder.

0) All which follow refers to my Marklin TT 7286, bought in 1992. It's a rather old model, but except the fact THIS TT doesn't have coil and/or capacitor wired below the cone, it should not change a lot with recent Marklin TT

1) in your last post, you were querying where the orange wire should be connected. Well, the orange wire (of the flat ribbon exiting from the TT) has NOT to be connected to a special location. It is the WHOLE plug of the TT which has to be connected to the six pins input of the TT-DEC. See figure at paragraph 5.1.1 of the TT-DEC documentation.

2) when you want to do 'occupation detection' of the bridge based on a ground detection method, it is the brown wire of the TT plug which is involved, not the orange one. The orange one is permanently connected to ground, and the brown one is not connected permanently to ground (otherwise it will not allow ground detection when an axle set conduction between both rails).

3) the 'bridge occupied' feedback goes ON thru a pin of the TT-DEC decoder labeled 'brown' connected to a S88 input pin, and of course when a conductive axle is present on the bridge. This input pin is the first pin located on the left handside of the TT-DEC six pin input (once again, see figure at paragraph 5.1.1)

Now my schema:
UserPostedImage

It is essentially the same schema as the one shown at paragraph 5.1.1 of the TT-DEC documentation. The differences are:
-As I have a common ground circuit, the "0" wires are connected together on the left
-the feedback wires are shown using a gray color (instead of blue in the TT-DEC doc)
-feedback wires are connected to input 2 (bridge occupied) and input 4 (position reached); you are free to connect them to the input pin that match your layout
-and beware: in my schema, it is shown I have removed the contact springs at the end of the bridge (because some were broken). As previously stated by Ross, do not cut them, but instead insulate the 2 rails of each spoke track by using Peco SL-11 rail joiner insulators, for instance. By using this method (ground insulation of spoke tracks), you will not modify the TT in a definitive way, and if you decide to put back ground on spoke tracks later, it is easy to replace a rail joiner with a conductive one.

Hope this helps you
Cheers
Fabrice
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Offline Ross  
#12 Posted : 11 February 2020 22:32:00(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 706
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Greg,

I was without power for about 36 hours.

Good answer to your question from Fabrice.ThumpUp
Ross
Offline Drongo  
#13 Posted : 14 February 2020 07:21:54(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,034
Location: Sydney, NSW
Thanks everyone for your help and input.

I've decided that the TT issue is to go on the back burner (a long way back). I've spent too much time on it and it's stopping me from completing my layout. The instructions from the manuals are very vague. I suspect that this is because the products are distributed worldwide and translating the instructions to all the different languages would be costly. Also, the translations from German to English generally are done using the incorrect English usage i.e. words are translated directly and the meaning is diverted.

Anyway, I've just about wrecked the TT trying to remove the spokes around the edge - whoever designed this should be shot. The instructions show you push a screwdriver (or equivalent) in a particular spot and then lift the spoke out - B.S. The programming is a nightmare. The bridge doesn't line up with the spokes correctly and there's no instruction on how to rectify this.

All in all - it's a terribly designed product and I'm thinking to send it back to Germany as I don't want to pollute our country with this trash.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
Offline applor  
#14 Posted : 14 February 2020 12:23:56(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,424
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Thanks everyone for your help and input.

I've decided that the TT issue is to go on the back burner (a long way back). I've spent too much time on it and it's stopping me from completing my layout. The instructions from the manuals are very vague. I suspect that this is because the products are distributed worldwide and translating the instructions to all the different languages would be costly. Also, the translations from German to English generally are done using the incorrect English usage i.e. words are translated directly and the meaning is diverted.

Anyway, I've just about wrecked the TT trying to remove the spokes around the edge - whoever designed this should be shot. The instructions show you push a screwdriver (or equivalent) in a particular spot and then lift the spoke out - B.S. The programming is a nightmare. The bridge doesn't line up with the spokes correctly and there's no instruction on how to rectify this.

All in all - it's a terribly designed product and I'm thinking to send it back to Germany as I don't want to pollute our country with this trash.


Don't give up, it's a great bit of kit (once you get it working).
Fabrice and I covered the wiring for you - is there some part of that you don't understand?

Yes, the spoke tracks can be a pain to remove. I think one of the tabs broke on mine but that doesn't matter as they are so firm it sits in place fine and you can't see the damage.
The first is the hardest because they are so tight, after that they are easier.

If the bridge doesn't line up with the tracks when it stops, push the little lever on the bridge in and line it up.

It's also critical that you also 'tune' the cycle frequency, do this by following the instructions on page 8.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline Drongo  
#15 Posted : 15 February 2020 04:56:43(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,034
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Thanks everyone for your help and input.

I've decided that the TT issue is to go on the back burner (a long way back). I've spent too much time on it and it's stopping me from completing my layout. The instructions from the manuals are very vague. I suspect that this is because the products are distributed worldwide and translating the instructions to all the different languages would be costly. Also, the translations from German to English generally are done using the incorrect English usage i.e. words are translated directly and the meaning is diverted.

Anyway, I've just about wrecked the TT trying to remove the spokes around the edge - whoever designed this should be shot. The instructions show you push a screwdriver (or equivalent) in a particular spot and then lift the spoke out - B.S. The programming is a nightmare. The bridge doesn't line up with the spokes correctly and there's no instruction on how to rectify this.

All in all - it's a terribly designed product and I'm thinking to send it back to Germany as I don't want to pollute our country with this trash.


Don't give up, it's a great bit of kit (once you get it working).
Fabrice and I covered the wiring for you - is there some part of that you don't understand?

Yes, the spoke tracks can be a pain to remove. I think one of the tabs broke on mine but that doesn't matter as they are so firm it sits in place fine and you can't see the damage.
The first is the hardest because they are so tight, after that they are easier.

If the bridge doesn't line up with the tracks when it stops, push the little lever on the bridge in and line it up.

It's also critical that you also 'tune' the cycle frequency, do this by following the instructions on page 8.


My uncle who passed away just before Christmas, aged 93, was a toolmaker and he taught me a lot about mechanical engineering. He would always say to me, "Don't let it beat you!". I'll put it aside for awhile and then try again. The new problem that has arisen while I was assembling it back together, is that the bridge will not line up with the spokes - about 1.5mm out. No instructions on how to make the adjustment. And you ask me to keep going with this thing. The lazy or inconsiderate Marklin people won't write decent instruction manuals. Marklin spend a bucket load of money with "Marklin TV" showing us how wonderful their products are - why don't they use this feature to show us how to use their "WONDERFUL" products. The senior mangers at Marklin need a rocket up them, especially Frank Mayer who won't honour his promise to reimburse me some money.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
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