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Offline Michael4  
#1 Posted : 14 November 2019 09:46:34(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
I have de-railing problems with 5140 (the curved M track points). It looks like things go wrong as the wheels pass over the frog (or is called the crossing).

The sets of points are old and some rather worn. It doesn't happen with all stock.

Is it most likely to be wear on the frog or wheel spacing? In other words what should I try first?
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 14 November 2019 11:44:08(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi Michael

These switches are almost indestructible (I doubt this is a wear issue)
A picture of the point would be helping.
Two things to check:
- the counter rai: a piece of sheet metal that may be bent one side or the other
- the frog bottom: a piece of nickeled plate which must be flat at the bottom of the frog (otherwise wheels bounce & derail).
To better understand what is wrong, remove a sel of wheels from the car that derails and roll it around the frog.
Good repair

Jean
Offline Michael4  
#3 Posted : 14 November 2019 16:00:18(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
Thanks...it points towards a problem with wheels, I will do as you say. Will also check wheel inside flange to flange distance is 13.8mm (?)
Online xxup  
#4 Posted : 14 November 2019 22:54:39(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Because m-track is so cheap, I have heaps of spare pieces. If there is any problem (pretty rare) the first thing I do is replace the track with another one..

The most common problem is that the springs get weak and need replacing every 15 years or so..

Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline dominator  
#5 Posted : 15 November 2019 01:09:37(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
Check your wheel gauge [ problem with a BR41 which the front driving wheels had moved out of gauge ] and also I found a loco where one front step was bent in slightly, touching a wheel, which caused the derailment. I have also found tracks can be worn, and I have replaced a 5117 point because of this. Mostly its problems with non Marklin locos and larger locos. I had problems with the one point I replaced because my BR78 just didn't like it. No more problems now.

A 2-6-2 Lilliput loco was really troublesome on the 5140 points so after some minor trimming of the bogie, got it much better but then found the inner front bogie wheel was touching the cylinder, forcing the outer wheel to mount the frog. [ Liliput minimum radius recommended is 365 mm for that loco, so they had an out there. ] So long as the loco doesn't go faster than its scale speed, all goes well now.

The check [ guard ] rails on the points are designed to hold the inner wheel close to the inner rail, stopping the outer wheel from jumping up onto the frog.

You will find the problem when you look really hard [ with plenty of light ]. It took me a while in some cases but I got there.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline Michael4  
#6 Posted : 15 November 2019 09:28:15(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
All my rolling stock is as new and in mint condition.

UserPostedImageDSC02452 by dralowid, on Flickr
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Michael4
Offline Michael4  
#7 Posted : 15 November 2019 09:43:19(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
(Ignoring my previous)

Thanks for the advice, I'll get to work on this somewhere well lit. Yes I have tried bending the guard rails in the past but with little success.

So...

I had a go at my 3019 last night, its leading bogie wheels rarely make it across these points and have a very weak spring holding them down. Initially I thought it might be something to do with that spring but double checking the wheel spacing is what has made the difference. Most of my stuff is well battered (see pic in previous post) so I should not really take wheel spacing for granted particularly after all these years!
Offline 60904  
#8 Posted : 17 November 2019 19:03:39(UTC)
60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 312
If you have metal guard rails you must fix them from underneath. They should not be loose in any way. Anyway after using turnouts for about 50 and more years it might happen that you should look for newer ones.
Greetings
Martin
Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 18 November 2019 12:39:26(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Metal guards are easy to correct in shape and to fix to the metal bead: simply turn around your switch (bottom up) and with flat nose pliers grab each of the 2 protruding pieces of the guard rail and turn until they are solidly attached to the bed. C'est fini.
Cheers
Jean
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