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Offline quarkhirad  
#1 Posted : 05 September 2019 08:24:48(UTC)
quarkhirad

India   
Joined: 25/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: surat

Hi guys

Ok so i have some really old locomotives (some were bought in 1953) so they all are analog locomotives. Now i would like to convert them to digital DCC. Now i see some videos on you tube etc but i really still dont understand what to do and how to do it. First of all this is the list of my locomotives

Steam engines

1) tank locos 3090
2) the 3096 tank loco which is a 2-8-2 (this is with telex coupling)
3) The express loco 3026 and 3048 both are 4-6-2

Diesel engine

1) 3080 shunt locomotive
2) 3065 shunt locomotive with telex coupling
3) 3021

Electric lococs

1) 3034 and 3037 passenger B-B
2) 3022 freight locomotive
3) 3356 Crocodile

So now for the questions

1) what would i need for each of my locomotives. Please the works

2) where can i buy the stuff required in 1 above

3) how do i do the modifications any tutorials/manuals etc


Oh and i went through the post https://www.marklin-user...al-conversion-of-M-locos i see a lot of part nos. but i dont understand are they applicable for me and what are they .

I am sorry this is so confusing i am absolutely a newbie out here






Online ktsolias  
#2 Posted : 05 September 2019 08:41:39(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Athens
Hi

All your locos are possible to be converted to digital.

Any of those needs different parts and procedure

You can find in this site some conversions for some of your locos

https://www.marklin-user...-3048-Digital-Conversion
https://www.marklin-user...um/posts/t37675-Marklin-

and many more

Then when you are ready to start ask for specific loco

Regards

Costas
Offline quarkhirad  
#3 Posted : 06 September 2019 04:38:19(UTC)
quarkhirad

India   
Joined: 25/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: surat
hey hi costas

so the thing is that i have started saving money and i have bought some C-track and a markling digital my starter set (2nd hand from a friend cum dealer). Now after seeing this video on you tube
i realized that i can use my M-track for digital i dont need to buy a whole new c-track. Yes i need to do the small modifications like remove the capacitors on feeder tracks , remove the bulbs from points to save on power and buy m83 decoders for points and crossings which is much lesser than replacing my large M-track collection. Also i have had a lot of fun with my digital starter train . So now that i can use my old tracks ( M-track), i can use my old passenger coaches wagons etc all that remains is converting my Locos to digital and offcourse buy the extra hardware like the m83 digital decoders and some other control stuff (infact i need help on that too see my question below ) . So yes i am absolutely ready to do all my locos so please help me make my shopping list of stuff to convert all my locos.

Also i live in india so getting stuff send to india is damn expensive. I got a box of 10 brand new Mtrack 5106 from germany for i cant remember how much but i do remember shipping was like 70 % of the cost of the item so landed paying 1.7X ( 1.0X for the item and 0.7X for shipping). Now i am going to Germany in october first week so yeah i want to make my shopping list so that i can buy the stuff and bring it thereby saving A HUGE HUGE amount on shipping costs.

Oh my second question is what are the controllers etc required. I have seen the 6021. But what do i need to be able to play with my entire set . Please help

I know i am bothering you a lot . but its just that i really want to do this. Oh and off course i have made friends with Ashutosh abhyankar he sells trains in india like marklin roco pico etc. So yeah he is willing to help me and i can use his workshop to do everything . So i am ready

Oh and guys anybody else wants to pitch in please do

thanks

khirad






thanks 1 user liked this useful post by quarkhirad
Online ktsolias  
#4 Posted : 06 September 2019 19:19:15(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Athens
Hi Khirad

I CAN DO THAT FOR YOU
First reply to a few questions:

1. Do you want the best performance?
a. 5 polo motors
2. Do you want sound?

An example loco 3096
BR 86

Motor: 60944 = 30€
Decoder: 1. 60972 (No Sound) = 40€
2. 60975 (With Sound) = 100€

Or 60906 (Old motor no sound) = 45€

All are mfx decoders

We have 3 Solutions 1:70€ (60944+60972) 2: 130€ (60944+60975) 3: 45€ (60906)

Prices are from the Märklin web shop. Is possible to find better prices from other dealers.

So you have to decide first what do you want to do and how much to invest.
For some locos (3090) is cheaper to buy a new one!!!
You have to see if you are capable to do the conversion successfully....

For controller I think that CS3 is the only way. Cheaper solution MS2, but no 6021 is totally obsolete, (no mfx, only 4 functions disaster)
Regards

Costas
Offline quarkhirad  
#5 Posted : 07 September 2019 05:27:48(UTC)
quarkhirad

India   
Joined: 25/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: surat
hi costas

Thanks a lot for your reply. It got me to do some research and find details of the options. Unfortunately i have some questions for you before i make my decision.

So first of all you said "I CAN DO THAT FOR YOU" . What did you mean by that?

1) now if i go with the 60906 decoder and no motor change for now . Later on when i have the money can i change the motor to the 5 pole high performance motor without changing the decoder.

Further i have lived for all these donkey years without sound so i think i can wait a little longer ( Plus it is a bit high in cost).

This means i have the following options

option 1) go for 60906 now and then later on just change the motor

option 2) Go for 60972 and high efficiency motor.

So that means i would like to do option 1 (as it is cheaper). But if when i change the motor i have to change the decoder as well then it makes no sense to go for option 1 and i go for option 2.

Now i did some research (google+marklin store + manuals) and i think i cant use the 60906 decoder with the new high performance motors (i am not sure i am guessing). So i am for now going to assume that i will be going for option two (offcourse please do tell me if i am wrong and then i go for option 1).


Hence i started looking at the motors and i have some questions

2) In the 60944 motor kit can i buy the parts individually . Because if i can then i can do 2 locomotives by just buying an extra permanent magnet.

3) What is the difference between motor kit 60941 and 60943

4) in the manual for the motor kit 60944 there is table as to which loco needs which type of armature and brush plate. I could only see 3096, 3022 and 3021 in that list from the list of locos i have. Hence i am assuming that this motor kit is not meant for the other locomotives i have. For the other locomotives that i have they require 60941 or 60943 kits. Am i right? and if yes then which kit 60941 or 60943


Now as you said it is cheaper to buy a new loco than upgrade it for some locos . So i checked on the marklin store (https://www.maerklin.de/en) and found that you are right for the 3090 and also the 3080 (its like 80 euro for these locos). Infact i forgot that my digital starter set has a tank loco which is the digital version of the 3090. The only thing is it is a plastic body instead of metal body. So i am going to sell my 3090. Now that leaves just the 3080. .

So now here is a loco by loco breakup ( oh please correct me if have anything wrong)

A) 3090 not worth it sell it
B) 3080 convert using 60906 (is it possible ??)

C) 3096, 3022, 3021 Motor kit 60944 and decoder 60972 for each loco

D) For all other loco Motor kit 60941 or 60943 (which one ?) with decoder 60972 for each loco


With respect to the controllers:

Well my digital starter set is the freight starter set 29323. So it came with the simple hand held controller which has a slide switch which has 4 ( i think so) positions with a different address for each position, 4 function keys, a start/stop buttons and a increase/decrease speed buttons . So i think i can control 4 locomotives with this (due to 4 separate addresses).

5) Now can i use this controller to control my locomotives after i upgrade them?

The CS3 at 650 euro is just too much it is almost my one months salary when converted to indian rupees. So i checked out the MS2 60657. Though it says that to use the ms2 i need the 60113 ho connector box. But when i search for 60113 box on the store it says item no longer produced.

6) So how can i use the MS2 without the box.?

Further i just saw that there are digital starter kits like the 29000 which come with a MS2 and controll box for like 169. The kits if you see are cheaper than the cost of the individual items (I mean obviously Cool Cool ) so may be i shall save some money and buy a set with a MS2 controller.

Now i have some general queries

7) to operate the points (like left curved turnout 20671) digitally you need a decoder. In the manual i have it is 74460. But when i search on marklin store it says this product is discontinued. Which is the decoder for the points.

8) Do i need to buy a marklin decoder programmer 60971 to program the decoders.

9) in the 60972 decoder manual it is stated

If the lights are grounded to the locomotive’s or powered rail car’s ground on the frame, we recommend that the lights be insulated from the locomotive ground. To do this, use the E604180 plug-in bulb holder(s) and E610080 light bulb(s). This will give you flicker-free lighting.

However when i search on the marklin store for both bulb holder and bulbs i cant find it . Do i need them and if yes where can i get them?

10) i was just wondering, in the analog operation i had one transformer feeding the tracks and one transformer for the catenary system so that the electric locos picked power from the catenary system just like in the real world. But when i convert to digital how will i give power to the catenary system do i need a second controller? Confused Confused Confused . Sorry i really dont know a single thing .

Thats all.

I really appreciate your patience and understanding . thank you so much


Khirad






Offline quarkhirad  
#6 Posted : 07 September 2019 05:51:24(UTC)
quarkhirad

India   
Joined: 25/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: surat
Hi costas


I am sorry ./ How silly of me to ask you about the decoders for the c track points. I forgot the decoder is the M83 decoders . How silly and absent minded of me. Cursing Cursing Cursing

Thank you
Online ktsolias  
#7 Posted : 07 September 2019 22:56:36(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Athens
Hi
To many questions!!!

I mean first that I can provide the information not to do the conversions!!!
I can do the conversions but we are so far away...
1. The 60906 decoder is for use only with Alstrom motors. Is not working with 5pole motors.
5 pole motors are working only with 6097x or 6098x decoders.

So if you want high efficiency motors (I think is the best solution) we have to forget the 60906.

The 60941 is for DCM motors
The 60943 is for SFCM motors
The 60944 is for LFCM motors

You can use the spare rotor with a magnet from 60944 but you have to find also the right screws chocks etc. On the other hand is the problem with the 7 or 8 teeth

I will post my suggestions for each of your locos

For the lights use LEDs

For controller an MS3 set (controller, track box and power supply) better to buy with a starter set or from a starter set is cheaper. MS3 is the same with MS2 the only think is that the plastic color is black.


I will be back soon

Regards

Costas
Offline quarkhirad  
#8 Posted : 08 September 2019 02:31:08(UTC)
quarkhirad

India   
Joined: 25/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: surat
hi costas

yes thank you for being so patient i know that was a lot of questions . Ok so based on your answer it is 5 pole motor with the 60972 decoder. Thats my choice.

Now with the MS3 controller , yeah i saw that so i will go for set . Though am i right about using the small hand held controller that came with my starter kit that i bought? I.E can i use use it to controll my locos after i convert them to digital.

Thats it waiting for your reply for individual locomotives .

Thank you

Khirad





Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 08 September 2019 07:52:14(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,543
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I don't think the distance is an issue, I do locos conversions for a friend in Hongkong,

conversion of any Analog loco:

it is advisable to use a 5 pole high efficiency motor for better running characteristics at lower speed.

if you want to last your rubber tyres longer and your track cleaner install ball bearings on both sides of the armature as oiling the motor is unnecessary

if you would like to add sound decoders at a later stage use a 21 pin adapter plate, you can exchange the decoder any time without doing any more wiring work.

and last you can add led's instead of bulbs.

I've been doing conversions for 30 years now.

it also depends, what digital system you prefer.

all in all its not cheap regardless which way you advance with your digital conversions.

having old locos and having kept them means there goes a certain nostalgia with them and buying other locos because of the cost involved has never been my option.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Online ktsolias  
#10 Posted : 08 September 2019 10:57:51(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Athens
Hi

My suggestions using Märklin decoders

Catalog No_________Motor _____________ Decoder______________Remarks
1. 3090______________60943_____________ 60972
2. 3096______________60944_____________ 60972______________8 teeth rotor
3. 3026______________E188838___________ 60972______________Special motor
4. 3048______________E188838___________ 60972______________Special motor

5. 3080______________60943______________60972
6. 3065______________60943______________60972
7. 3021______________60944______________60972______________7 teeth rotor

8. 3034______________60941______________60972______________The 60760 set is a cheaper solution with 5pole motor
9. 3037______________60941______________60972______________The 60760 set is a cheaper solution
10. 3022_____________60944______________60972______________8 teeth rotor
11. 3356_____________60941______________60972______________The 60760 set is a cheaper solution
but for a crocodile
I suggest the______ 60941______________60977______________Sound decoder

All the motors are 5pole. All the decoders are 21pin so can be changed easily in the future

The 60971 programmer tool is for advanced programming mainly for sounds. Is useful but in my opinion after you have CS3

The controller is the most important part of a layout. Is better to save money converting fewer locos in the start and take CS3 (not the plus) the 60226 and save money from m83 decoders in the start.

I have no any experience with the controller that you have now, but definitely is not enough for 11 mfx locos.

Forget the overhead catenary system, Its not recommended for digital operation. Is only for the visual effect

I think that you are starting to pass in the digital way of thinking which is totally different from the analog one.

If you do correct decisions now you will have more excitement and you will save also a lot of money in long term use.

Costas


thanks 2 users liked this useful post by ktsolias
Offline TEEWolf  
#11 Posted : 08 September 2019 17:03:19(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,872
Originally Posted by: quarkhirad Go to Quoted Post

Hi guys

Ok so i have some really old locomotives (some were bought in 1953) so they all are analog locomotives. Now i would like to convert them to digital DCC. Now i see some videos on you tube etc but i really still dont understand what to do and how to do it. First of all this is the list of my locomotives

Steam engines

1) tank locos 3090
2) the 3096 tank loco which is a 2-8-2 (this is with telex coupling)
3) The express loco 3026 and 3048 both are 4-6-2

Diesel engine

1) 3080 shunt locomotive
2) 3065 shunt locomotive with telex coupling
3) 3021

Electric lococs

1) 3034 and 3037 passenger B-B
2) 3022 freight locomotive
3) 3356 Crocodile

So now for the questions

1) what would i need for each of my locomotives. Please the works

2) where can i buy the stuff required in 1 above

3) how do i do the modifications any tutorials/manuals etc


Oh and i went through the post https://www.marklin-user...al-conversion-of-M-locos i see a lot of part nos. but i dont understand are they applicable for me and what are they .

I am sorry this is so confusing i am absolutely a newbie out here



Hello quarkhirad,

everybody moving from analogue to digital MRR (abbreviations see here

https://www.marklin-user...ionary-of-Abbreviations)

is confused. So Maerklin offers a book for those people

Gauge H0 - Article No. 03070 - Book "Returning/Changing Over to Digital Model Railroading". Unfortunately only in German available. A good translator software will be

https://www.deepl.com/translator

But this book (art #03092)

https://www.maerklinshop...it-der-central-station-3

is in English available.

At the moment the link to Maerklin's database is broken for this book. But this book is a must, if you want converting locos to digital. The same is a CS 3 (60226) controller a minimum for you, while are you in India. You get now chance for a software update of your MS 2 there. The CS 3 you can update via internet. At eBay I saw used CS 3 round about for 400 € already. But even buying a CS 3 in Germany you get about 15% discount. Do not forget exporting this CS 3 as well as all the other articles you are buying in Germany, to apply for a tax refund for the German VAT at the customs, while leaving Germany. The VAT is 19% in Germany. Deducting from sales price is about 16% (19/119 deducting in hundred). So you may get roughly 30% cheaper buying in Germany and export the item to India. What you have to pay for an import in India - well this is up to you.BigGrin

There you want to convert plenty of analogue locos I would choose the cheaper possibility (without sound)

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60760/

This is a new motor AND a decoder for a loco together for officially 45 €. In Germany you buy it for about 30 to 35 €. Take the saved money to buy a CS 3 60226 and think about it, you need article No. 60061 60 VA Switched Mode Power Pack, 230 Volts too. Similar buying a MS 2. Always you need a track box and a power pack in addition to the MS 2.

On the other hand, if you still have plenty of M-tracks you can use them together with C-track. No need to buy only new C-tracks, turnouts, etc. Maerklin offers an adapter track.

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/24951/

Also you do not need to digitalise all your M-track turnouts, signals or whatever you got on solenoid articles. You still can use them in analogue mode by building a separate cabling for these articles. But you do not have to buy the m83, m84 or built in decoders. Save the money and use this money for a CS 3.

This is enough for the moment. Remember, almost all questions you have, have had many people before too – myself included. They were often answered at Maerklin-User.Net (MUN) somewhere, e.g.

https://www.marklin-user...78-Converting-to-digital

https://www.marklin-user...lin-digital-explanations

because every newbie has similar questions. Make a long story short, searching at MUN with the words “Maerklin digital” you get so many answers, you may not read them all at once, because in many posts you find further links for much more informations.

Best Regards

TEEWolf

P.S.: After converting your loco to digital ones and then you want sound inside as well. Here at MUN you find everything:BigGrin

https://www.marklin-user...eoSoundLab-sound-project
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Rwill  
#12 Posted : 08 September 2019 19:29:10(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 539
Location: England, London
Quote TEEwolf: "Gauge H0 - Article No. 03070 - Book "Returning/Changing Over to Digital Model Railroading". Unfortunately only in German available. A good translator software will be

https://www.deepl.com/translator"


Am I missing something? how do translate a hard copy only book using this software
Offline TEEWolf  
#13 Posted : 08 September 2019 20:19:16(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,872
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
Quote TEEwolf: "Gauge H0 - Article No. 03070 - Book "Returning/Changing Over to Digital Model Railroading". Unfortunately only in German available. A good translator software will be

https://www.deepl.com/translator"


Am I missing something? how do translate a hard copy only book using this software


First: I have Dragon NatuarllySpeaking (now Nuance Dragon) and dictate it into my OpenOffice word processor. Then translating the written text.Smile With German it is functioning, because you speak German as you read it, like in Latin. E.g. with Russian - no chance for me.Laugh

Second: inside the book are very helpful pictures, diagrams, cabling plans.BigGrin

Third: it was only a hint showing Maerklin's offers, not really a recommendationMellow

Fourth: learn German, Maerklin does not like English (indeed this is only a real joke)LOL

But the best and serious version: type the words as they are into the text field of the translating software. Do this myself sometimes with English too.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline quarkhirad  
#14 Posted : 08 September 2019 21:30:24(UTC)
quarkhirad

India   
Joined: 25/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: surat
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I don't think the distance is an issue, I do locos conversions for a friend in Hongkong,

conversion of any Analog loco:

it is advisable to use a 5 pole high efficiency motor for better running characteristics at lower speed.

if you want to last your rubber tyres longer and your track cleaner install ball bearings on both sides of the armature as oiling the motor is unnecessary

if you would like to add sound decoders at a later stage use a 21 pin adapter plate, you can exchange the decoder any time without doing any more wiring work.

and last you can add led's instead of bulbs.

I've been doing conversions for 30 years now.

it also depends, what digital system you prefer.

all in all its not cheap regardless which way you advance with your digital conversions.

having old locos and having kept them means there goes a certain nostalgia with them and buying other locos because of the cost involved has never been my option.

John



Hey hi . Thanks a lot. Now where do i get ball bearings and how do i install them ???.



Offline quarkhirad  
#15 Posted : 08 September 2019 21:38:27(UTC)
quarkhirad

India   
Joined: 25/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: surat
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
Hi

My suggestions using Märklin decoders

Catalog No_________Motor _____________ Decoder______________Remarks
1. 3090______________60943_____________ 60972
2. 3096______________60944_____________ 60972______________8 teeth rotor
3. 3026______________E188838___________ 60972______________Special motor
4. 3048______________E188838___________ 60972______________Special motor

5. 3080______________60943______________60972
6. 3065______________60943______________60972
7. 3021______________60944______________60972______________7 teeth rotor

8. 3034______________60941______________60972______________The 60760 set is a cheaper solution with 5pole motor
9. 3037______________60941______________60972______________The 60760 set is a cheaper solution
10. 3022_____________60944______________60972______________8 teeth rotor
11. 3356_____________60941______________60972______________The 60760 set is a cheaper solution
but for a crocodile
I suggest the______ 60941______________60977______________Sound decoder

All the motors are 5pole. All the decoders are 21pin so can be changed easily in the future

The 60971 programmer tool is for advanced programming mainly for sounds. Is useful but in my opinion after you have CS3

The controller is the most important part of a layout. Is better to save money converting fewer locos in the start and take CS3 (not the plus) the 60226 and save money from m83 decoders in the start.

I have no any experience with the controller that you have now, but definitely is not enough for 11 mfx locos.

Forget the overhead catenary system, Its not recommended for digital operation. Is only for the visual effect

I think that you are starting to pass in the digital way of thinking which is totally different from the analog one.

If you do correct decisions now you will have more excitement and you will save also a lot of money in long term use.

Costas




Hey costas


Thank you for the details . I got my shopping list now. Though i do agree with you for the croc i will go with sound. I didnt know before that you could use the points without digitizing them. So yes i am not going to buy the m83 right now. That does save a lot.

Thank you once again


Offline quarkhirad  
#16 Posted : 09 September 2019 01:11:58(UTC)
quarkhirad

India   
Joined: 25/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: surat
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


Hello quarkhirad,

everybody moving from analogue to digital MRR (abbreviations see here

https://www.marklin-user...ionary-of-Abbreviations)

is confused. So Maerklin offers a book for those people

Gauge H0 - Article No. 03070 - Book "Returning/Changing Over to Digital Model Railroading". Unfortunately only in German available. A good translator software will be

https://www.deepl.com/translator

But this book (art #03092)

https://www.maerklinshop...it-der-central-station-3

is in English available.

At the moment the link to Maerklin's database is broken for this book. But this book is a must, if you want converting locos to digital. The same is a CS 3 (60226) controller a minimum for you, while are you in India. You get now chance for a software update of your MS 2 there. The CS 3 you can update via internet. At eBay I saw used CS 3 round about for 400 € already. But even buying a CS 3 in Germany you get about 15% discount. Do not forget exporting this CS 3 as well as all the other articles you are buying in Germany, to apply for a tax refund for the German VAT at the customs, while leaving Germany. The VAT is 19% in Germany. Deducting from sales price is about 16% (19/119 deducting in hundred). So you may get roughly 30% cheaper buying in Germany and export the item to India. What you have to pay for an import in India - well this is up to you.BigGrin

There you want to convert plenty of analogue locos I would choose the cheaper possibility (without sound)

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60760/

This is a new motor AND a decoder for a loco together for officially 45 €. In Germany you buy it for about 30 to 35 €. Take the saved money to buy a CS 3 60226 and think about it, you need article No. 60061 60 VA Switched Mode Power Pack, 230 Volts too. Similar buying a MS 2. Always you need a track box and a power pack in addition to the MS 2.

On the other hand, if you still have plenty of M-tracks you can use them together with C-track. No need to buy only new C-tracks, turnouts, etc. Maerklin offers an adapter track.

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/24951/

Also you do not need to digitalise all your M-track turnouts, signals or whatever you got on solenoid articles. You still can use them in analogue mode by building a separate cabling for these articles. But you do not have to buy the m83, m84 or built in decoders. Save the money and use this money for a CS 3.

This is enough for the moment. Remember, almost all questions you have, have had many people before too – myself included. They were often answered at Maerklin-User.Net (MUN) somewhere, e.g.

https://www.marklin-user...78-Converting-to-digital

https://www.marklin-user...lin-digital-explanations

because every newbie has similar questions. Make a long story short, searching at MUN with the words “Maerklin digital” you get so many answers, you may not read them all at once, because in many posts you find further links for much more informations.

Best Regards

TEEWolf

P.S.: After converting your loco to digital ones and then you want sound inside as well. Here at MUN you find everything:BigGrin

https://www.marklin-user...eoSoundLab-sound-project






Hey hi TEEWolf. Thanks a lot will definitely buy the 03092 in english. I will see about the 03070. Also thanks for the multiple links . Now when i went to the marklin store and from your post it seems that when i buy the CS3 i have to separately buy the 60061 power pack (which is an extra ~80 Euro). Just buying the CS3 alone would be useless as i cant use it without a power pack. Or am i mistaken and the CS3 comes with a power pack when you buy it. if yes then is the default power pack sufficiently rated.


Further i was thinking of the many options, to optimize on cost, and i came up with a couple , i really would like to ask which is the best bet because as costas said doing the right thing can mean saving in the long run. Thats why i am posting on this forum and i want seasoned and professionals on this forum's help . So here it is

Option 1) i go with what costas was saying for my locos offcourse i go with 60760 for my 3034 and 3037 and a sound decoder for the 3356 croc . Then with respect to the controller i can control 4 trains with my current simple 4 function controller. So i use this until i save up for a CS3

option 2) well this is basically option 1 with the difference that i dont update my 3356 crocodile (leave it as an analog locomotive for the time) and then i use that money + a little more to buy a MS2 ( i will buy a set like the 29000 starter set).

option 3) I upgrade only my diesel and steam locos then with the money i save i buy a CS3. Though then i have a question can i run my analog electric locos via the overhead line as i have always done. I got this idea because the overhead line is a separate circuit. The only reason why i am asking is the fact that 1)while running analog trains we need the RFI capacitor from line to ground . So if i am running my analog electric locos through the catenary i will need an RFI capacitor for from the overhead line to ground.2) the ground is common hence the return from my analog transformer (for the overhead catenary) and the ground for my digital locos will be the same. 3) while reversing the analog locos you give a pulse of around 24VAC. Will these three things be a problem. i dont think so but just wanted to make sure.

option 4 ) i go for the cheap 60906 decoder and no motor upgrade for all my locos. Then the saved money is used for buying a CS3. Later on i upgrade motor and decoder as i save money.


Please i would like to have your professional opinion. Oh and everyone please do give me some suggestions/ your opinion on my options. As i said i want to make the right choice.

thank you


Khirad



Online ktsolias  
#17 Posted : 09 September 2019 19:22:57(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Athens
Hi

I wrote my opinion and my suggestions

One more think: Never mix digital (track) and analogue (overhead) on the same layout. The result will be to burn the digital controller at least.

Model train digital electronics are very sensitive (decoders can be destroyed from static electricity or a short circuit etc)

About your project:

You have I think enough infos to do your decisions.

Don't forget that the Hobby needs mainly three thinks:

Space
Time
Money

Regards

Costas
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ktsolias
Offline TEEWolf  
#18 Posted : 09 September 2019 20:55:58(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,872
Originally Posted by: quarkhirad Go to Quoted Post

Hey hi TEEWolf. Thanks a lot will definitely buy the 03092 in english. I will see about the 03070

The 03070 is helpful too, but because it is in German written it will be sometimes quite tedious.

Originally Posted by: quarkhirad Go to Quoted Post

Also thanks for the multiple links . Now when i went to the marklin store and from your post it seems that when i buy the CS3 i have to separately buy the 60061 power pack (which is an extra ~80 Euro). Just buying the CS3 alone would be useless as i cant use it without a power pack. Or am i mistaken and the CS3 comes with a power pack when you buy it. if yes then is the default power pack sufficiently rated.


Correct. Therefore some dealers offer a package of a CS 3 together with a power pack for a good, special price.

Originally Posted by: quarkhirad Go to Quoted Post

Further i was thinking of the many options, to optimize on cost, and i came up with a couple , i really would like to ask which is the best bet because as costas said doing the right thing can mean saving in the long run. Thats why i am posting on this forum and i want seasoned and professionals on this forum's help . So here it is


Indeed @ktsolias is right. It is always up to your decision, but buying now a CS 3 60226 is at the moment really expensive, but in the long run you are saving. I would postpone other things first, but if possible buy a CS 3.

If you buy a MS 2, than buy it with the software version 3.55. This is the newest one at the moment. Read this thread, please.

https://www.marklin-user...-for-32-Function-support

This new software is prepared for using a booster and sooner or later you need a booster. Because a MS 2 provides a layout with 1.9 A, a CS 3 with 3 A power. Every CS 3 has always a booster inside, not a MS 2. Also to postpone the usage of a booster (costs a lot of money, about 200 €) as long as possible, I would build a layout with 2 strictly and completely separated areas: a digital and a analogue one. By the digital you drive your locos. By the analogue one you toggle your turnouts, signals, burn your lights AND yes – use your set up catenary system on the layout. I guess you name it “overhead line”?

Originally Posted by: quarkhirad Go to Quoted Post

Option 1) i go with what costas was saying for my locos offcourse i go with 60760 for my 3034 and 3037 and a sound decoder for the 3356 croc . Then with respect to the controller i can control 4 trains with my current simple 4 function controller. So i use this until i save up for a CS3


Which article number does your 4 function controller have?

If you set up an analogue catenary system, of course you keep all your locos with a pantograph at the analogue system and save the money for any conversion to digital. Do this with your steamer and Diesel. For security reasons you remove all sliders from your locos with a pantograph. It assures you cannot get any contact between the analogue catenary line and your digital track line system. Because a contact could be disastrous by a shortage between the 2 different systems for the digital devices.

But it is always a remaining risk. If something happened that your analogue catenary system is e.g. hanging down in your digital track line by an accident. This risk you only can minimize by a very carefully work building your catenary system and get your locos run at a reasonable speed. BTW this all is not my experience. I read this in the Maerklin book article #03070 "Returning / Changing Over to Digital Model Railroading". It has an own chapter “ The best out of two worlds”, which describes the usage of an analogue and digital system together.

Originally Posted by: quarkhirad Go to Quoted Post

option 2) well this is basically option 1 with the difference that i dont update my 3356 crocodile (leave it as an analog locomotive for the time) and then i use that money + a little more to buy a MS2 ( i will buy a set like the 29000 starter set).

I would not buy a 29000. There are cheaper offers available for a MS 2 package (means MS 2 including track box and power supply, which is always needed together using a MS 2)

http://joes-modellbahnla...15f08b03b/Products/29000

http://joes-modellbahnla...15f08b03b/Products/60657

Please do your own calculation which offer you will prefer.

Originally Posted by: quarkhirad Go to Quoted Post

option 3) I upgrade only my diesel and steam locos then with the money i save i buy a CS3. Though then i have a question can i run my analog electric locos via the overhead line as i have always done. I got this idea because the overhead line is a separate circuit. The only reason why i am asking is the fact that 1)while running analog trains we need the RFI capacitor from line to ground . So if i am running my analog electric locos through the catenary i will need an RFI capacitor for from the overhead line to ground.2) the ground is common hence the return from my analog transformer (for the overhead catenary) and the ground for my digital locos will be the same.


Maerklin writes in its book #03070 "Returning / Changing Over to Digital Model Railroading“ as follows at page 80:
“Both systems then use the rail mass (ground) as the common return conductor. If the two systems are never connected, this is not a problem.”

Originally Posted by: quarkhirad Go to Quoted Post

3) while reversing the analog locos you give a pulse of around 24VAC. Will these three things be a problem. i dont think so but just wanted to make sure.


Point 1 and 2 are not a major problem. The major problem is your 3rd point and why @ktsolias is warning.

Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
One more think: Never mix digital (track) and analogue (overhead) on the same layout. The result will be to burn the digital controller at least.
Model train digital electronics are very sensitive (decoders can be destroyed from static electricity or a short circuit etc)


So it is.
The analogue pulse while changing the direction is so high it will destroy all your digital devices. This is another reason to keep both systems strictly separated. Be carefully.

Originally Posted by: quarkhirad Go to Quoted Post

option 4 ) i go for the cheap 60906 decoder and no motor upgrade for all my locos. Then the saved money is used for buying a CS3. Later on i upgrade motor and decoder as i save money.


Please i would like to have your professional opinion. Oh and everyone please do give me some suggestions/ your opinion on my options. As i said i want to make the right choice.

thank you

Khirad


Do your locos got a built in AC/DC field coil motor already? Or would not be the Maerklin 60760 set (a 5-pole motor and decoder in one set)

https://www.maerklin.de/...ts/details/article/60760

the better choice? I never used this 60760 set. But a lot of other members here does. Perhaps they can tell more about their experiences with this set.


These are my suggestions and opinion. Hopefully you find your right choice. How to do what you want is an extra thread. Some are already existing here at MUN.

ciao

TEEWolf

CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline quarkhirad  
#19 Posted : 10 September 2019 00:36:58(UTC)
quarkhirad

India   
Joined: 25/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: surat
Thank you so much guys .

Yes now i have all the info. I have made my shopping list and now when i am in germany i will go to shops and see whiich is the best offers and work out the best solution depending on the offers etc. I have a budget of around 1000 euro so lets see how i can maximize my fun.

Quote:
which article number does your 4 function controller have?


Well TEEwolf i really cant find the no but it is the same controller that is part of the 29323 "Freight Train" Starter Set. 230 Volts. (see link below)

Even in the product description it just says infra red controller. Thats all.

Oh and right now i am not in india i am outside so once i reach india, i can like scan a few pages of the controller handbook . Let me know.

Any way

Thank you

once again

khirad

https://www.maerklin.de/...rrpdb_pi1%5BnoPaging%5D=
Offline TEEWolf  
#20 Posted : 10 September 2019 03:34:11(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,872
Originally Posted by: quarkhirad Go to Quoted Post
Thank you so much guys .

Yes now i have all the info. I have made my shopping list and now when i am in germany i will go to shops and see whiich is the best offers and work out the best solution depending on the offers etc. I have a budget of around 1000 euro so lets see how i can maximize my fun.

Quote:
which article number does your 4 function controller have?


Well TEEwolf i really cant find the no but it is the same controller that is part of the 29323 "Freight Train" Starter Set. 230 Volts. (see link below)

Even in the product description it just says infra red controller. Thats all.

Oh and right now i am not in india i am outside so once i reach india, i can like scan a few pages of the controller handbook . Let me know.

Any way

Thank you

once again

khirad

https://www.maerklin.de/...rrpdb_pi1%5BnoPaging%5D=



Hello khirad,

thanks for the information about your start-up set. Well it is a nice one and your loco shall have a mfx decoder inside. This is the convenient one. Because some start-up sets have still locos with fx decoders. The mfx decoder are registering automatically at a MS 2 or CS 3.

Here some more links for the start-up series from Maerklin.

http://www.maerklinfanclub.de/

http://streaming.maerkli...talog2019_online_EN_.pdf

https://www.maerklin.de/...quently-asked-questions/

https://static.maerklin....e3d404cb2b1489757292.pdf

https://static.maerklin....7ae8042ed31537193800.pdf

your controller is just named as an infrared controller. You cannot buy as a single article from Maerklin. After you get a MS 2 or CS 3 you do not need it any longer. Same with the connecting track.

If you got your buying list and know where you are going in Germany perhaps you may find by Google, if these shops do have an internet-shop. You can research their prices before you visit them and find the best offers in the shops.

Best Regards

Wolfgang
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline river6109  
#21 Posted : 10 September 2019 09:45:05(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,543
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: quarkhirad Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I don't think the distance is an issue, I do locos conversions for a friend in Hongkong,

conversion of any Analog loco:

it is advisable to use a 5 pole high efficiency motor for better running characteristics at lower speed.

if you want to last your rubber tyres longer and your track cleaner install ball bearings on both sides of the armature as oiling the motor is unnecessary

if you would like to add sound decoders at a later stage use a 21 pin adapter plate, you can exchange the decoder any time without doing any more wiring work.

and last you can add led's instead of bulbs.

I've been doing conversions for 30 years now.

it also depends, what digital system you prefer.

all in all its not cheap regardless which way you advance with your digital conversions.

having old locos and having kept them means there goes a certain nostalgia with them and buying other locos because of the cost involved has never been my option.

John



Hey hi . Thanks a lot. Now where do i get ball bearings and how do i install them ???.





Hi, unless you're skilled and have the correct tools it would be impossible to change the motor with ball bearings, most new 3 pole motors have a plastic insert at the back of the motor (armature rod goes into it) so this easy all you have to do is push the plastic insert out and replace it with a ball bearing 1'5mm x 4mm x 2mm 1.5 mm is the diameter of the rod, 4mm is the overall size, 2mm is the thickness. available on ebay or amazon or Ali express. (681XZZ L-415ZZ)

you need a special tool for your brush plate and same for older motors e.g. large or small disk armatures.

I do these conversions




https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
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