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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#1 Posted : 17 June 2019 08:47:47(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Hello,
I got an double loco, a german V 188 and decided to install sound.

UserPostedImage

In the first step, I installed in both halfs a speaker:

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

... and connected them to the common sound decoder.

But then, I thought it would be a better solution to be able to start and stop the "engines" separately. Therefore, I bought a S.U.S.I.-Sound module and connected the sound module to the sound decoder. Both, the sound module and the sound decoder have the same sound project, but I can start and stop the engine sound separetly, also the horn sound and other sound from left and right side can be used individually.

Now, the sound is much more impressive:

Two speakers, one sound decoder:


Two speakers, sound decoder + sound module:


You find the full conversion reports here:
https://modellbauhuette....it-doehlerhaass-sd21a-4/
https://modellbauhuette....k-mit-zwei-soundmodulen/

Greetings,
Moritz
thanks 9 users liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
Offline dickinsonj  
#2 Posted : 19 June 2019 01:29:05(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
A very, very nice job!

I will be interested to see if Märklin does as well as you with their Insider V320 and its two speakers!
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#3 Posted : 19 June 2019 17:14:17(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
A very, very nice job!

I will be interested to see if Märklin does as well as you with their Insider V320 and its two speakers!


I don't believe that Märklin will add a second sound module into the V320. But the Märklin Decoder would be able to work together with a SUSI sound module.

Moritz
Offline TEEWolf  
#4 Posted : 19 June 2019 19:48:26(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
A very, very nice job!

I will be interested to see if Märklin does as well as you with their Insider V320 and its two speakers!


I don't believe that Märklin will add a second sound module into the V320. But the Märklin Decoder would be able to work together with a SUSI sound module.

Moritz


Nichts für ungut (no offense) Moritz, but have a look on the explosion drawing of the V 320 from Märklin.

https://static.maerklin....296264a35a1554967789.pdf

Be aware about #2 of the spare parts list and the picture: 2 loudspeakers are in the Insider V 320 listed and shown.BigGrin I think this Insider loco will be a nice one as well again. Minimum for the Insider locos Märklin has made significant progress. When I have a look onto my 103 long, the shunting Croc, BR 65 - they are outstanding great locos.
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#5 Posted : 19 June 2019 20:13:57(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Hello TEEWolf,
I wrote that the V320 will not have two sound modules, and when I look to the spare part list I see only one Decoder.

My V 188 hast not only two speakers but also two sound modules, so I can start the two engines separately. And because I used different speakers, the sound from the left and the right loco is slightly different.

Two speakers is not so unique, the V90 from Märklin has two speakers, too.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
Offline TEEWolf  
#6 Posted : 20 June 2019 00:06:31(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
Hello TEEWolf,
I wrote that the V320 will not have two sound modules, and when I look to the spare part list I see only one Decoder.

My V 188 hast not only two speakers but also two sound modules, so I can start the two engines separately. And because I used different speakers, the sound from the left and the right loco is slightly different.

Two speakers is not so unique, the V90 from Märklin has two speakers, too.


OK your V 188 has 2 engines, 2 deoders, 2 loudspeakers. Looking into the explosion drawing of the V 188 37283 Märklin, the loco (is this really only one loco or are these two coupled locos?) has 2 engines, but only one decoder and one sound module with one resonator.

https://static.maerklin....b380c27f7c1434542008.pdf

Anyway, if you got 2 loudspeaker with a good software you virtually can do almost everything with the sound, also to start 2 engines, even you got only one motor on board? What I mean, you installed everything twice. Couldn't you have achieved the same effect with a good decoder, software and 2 loudspeaker?
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline dickinsonj  
#7 Posted : 20 June 2019 00:49:33(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Couldn't you have achieved the same effect with a good decoder, software and 2 loudspeaker?

Wolfgang,

I don't believe that when using just one decoder you can drive the two speakers individually as Moritz has done by using a second decoder. An mSD/3 has just a single physical speaker port, which means that the two speakers will respond together to sound outputs. That is why I said that Märklin would do well to achieve the effect that Moritz has. ThumpUp

A friend of mine upgraded his VT 11.5 so that he could control the speakers separately but I don't remember how he achieved that - probably with a second decoder.

In my VT 11.5 there is a speaker in each motor unit and they achieve an acceptable effect of starting the two engines by increasing the volume after the second one starts. But both speakers do the same thing all of the time. Unless Märklin has a trick up its sleeve that I am not aware of that is how the V320 will work as well. It will spread the sound across the loco to match the two motors, give it very good sound quality and you can control the fans separately so I think it will be cool.

Edited by user 20 June 2019 12:51:10(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#8 Posted : 20 June 2019 08:57:09(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

Anyway, if you got 2 loudspeaker with a good software you virtually can do almost everything with the sound, also to start 2 engines, even you got only one motor on board? What I mean, you installed everything twice. Couldn't you have achieved the same effect with a good decoder, software and 2 loudspeaker?


No, Not really. Because most sound decoders have only one output channel. Therefore, even when You connect two speakers to the sound decoder, there will always be the same sound from both speakers.

In my V 188 I have one Sound Decoder for one speaker of loco part 1 and for driving of both engines. And there is a second sound module, which is only for the second speaker in the second loco part.

Therefore, you can hear, if the left or the right engine starts. Also, it is a difference if the horn of the front or of the rear part is working.

You can e.g. Configure the horn on one function, but only the horn in driving direction is giving the sound.

Regards,
Moritz
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 20 June 2019 15:14:00(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Unless Märklin has a trick up its sleeve that I am not aware of that is how the V320 will work as well. It will spread the sound across the loco to match the two motors, give it very good sound quality and you can control the fans separately so I think it will be cool.


They may do the same trick as can be done with Loksound 4 (and presumably Loksound 5) decoders, where it is possible to load a second engine sound in a second sound slot, and have them start up in sequence. I haven't tried it, but apparently it gives a very believable 2 motor sound.

Offline TEEWolf  
#10 Posted : 20 June 2019 23:35:44(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

Anyway, if you got 2 loudspeaker with a good software you virtually can do almost everything with the sound, also to start 2 engines, even you got only one motor on board? What I mean, you installed everything twice. Couldn't you have achieved the same effect with a good decoder, software and 2 loudspeaker?


No, Not really. Because most sound decoders have only one output channel. Therefore, even when You connect two speakers to the sound decoder, there will always be the same sound from both speakers.

In my V 188 I have one Sound Decoder for one speaker of loco part 1 and for driving of both engines. And there is a second sound module, which is only for the second speaker in the second loco part.

Therefore, you can hear, if the left or the right engine starts. Also, it is a difference if the horn of the front or of the rear part is working.

You can e.g. Configure the horn on one function, but only the horn in driving direction is giving the sound.

Regards,
Moritz


It sounds nice and shows some possibilities for further improvments for Märklin too. But at the moment I am looking forward getting my V 320 - then I know more.BigGrin
Offline dickinsonj  
#11 Posted : 21 June 2019 01:05:31(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

It sounds nice and shows some possibilities for further improvements for Märklin too. But at the moment I am looking forward getting my V 320 - then I know more.BigGrin


Exactly! That is the kind of tech innovation that Märklin needs, in order to get back near the top of the MRR world.

And that's what I meant with my first comment about Märklin possibly doing as well as Moritz did with his twin speakers, because if we are lucky the V320 will be that nice. That appears to be an excellent upgrade project and it is an example of the type of top level upgrade that we don't seem to see on the forum as much these days.

I actually don't expect it to happen but it would impress me if they found a way to do that without a sound module, which does not appear to be there. Unfortunately I don't think that the odds are very high, but it would show that they are getting ahead of the curve finally and moving past just playing catch up.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
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