Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline geko  
#1 Posted : 08 May 2019 10:45:19(UTC)
geko

Belgium   
Joined: 06/05/2019(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Hainaut, Belgium
Hello all,

I'm new to the forum, and getting back into model railroads after +/- 15 years of absence. Looks like I have a huge technological gap to bridge since my Control80(f) days!

I would like to start off with a few general questions:

- I have a few locomotives that need a digital decoder: 3328 (SBB), 3050 (SBB), 3642 (DB), 3199 (DB), 3021/3081 (DB), 3354 (CFL). I found the Märklin 60760 High Performance Digital Retrofit Set that has been talked about elsewhere on this forum - would you recommend it? And would there be enough space in those locomotives to fit it? Or could I also install a newer mfx decoder? I'm especially looking for realistic low speeds and slow accelerations.
- What kind/brand of soldering iron would you recommend?
- And if I wanted to make my make my installation future-proof (and pc-controllable), what kind of controls would you recommend? I've noticed that my Control 80f cannot even control the additional functions of the mfx decoders ;-)

I apologize for all these question, but I feel like a newbie again ;-)

Thanks, and best regards,
Georges
-----------
Reviving my first-generation Märklin Digital (Control 80/80f) collection after 15 years, mainly CFL and SBB models on K-Rail.
Offline dickinsonj  
#2 Posted : 08 May 2019 15:18:39(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,074
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post
Hello all,

I'm new to the forum, and getting back into model railroads after +/- 15 years of absence. Looks like I have a huge technological gap to bridge since my Control80(f) days!

Welcome - you will find a lot of good information here. Three years ago I returned to the hobby after a long absence and also last using a Control 80 f. The help that I have gotten here has been critical to getting me back up to speed.ThumpUp

Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post

- I have a few locomotives that need a digital decoder: 3328 (SBB), 3050 (SBB), 3642 (DB), 3199 (DB), 3021/3081 (DB), 3354 (CFL). I found the Märklin 60760 High Performance Digital Retrofit Set that has been talked about elsewhere on this forum - would you recommend it? And would there be enough space in those locomotives to fit it? Or could I also install a newer mfx decoder? I'm especially looking for realistic low speeds and slow accelerations.

The 60760 kit is the most economical solution, with the decoder costing just a little more than the motor upgrade parts alone. The downside is that this decoder is fairly primitive and I have not found that my older locos run very well using it. I have repurposed some of those decoders as function decoders and bought better decoders instead - either third generation Märklin ones or the excellent but more expensive ESU 4th generation decoders. Another option would be to do what I did by first upgrading with the 60760 and then installing a better decoder if you feel the need.
Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post

- What kind/brand of soldering iron would you recommend?

There are lots of choices in quality soldering irons - I bought a Hakko soldering station and have been very happy with its performance.
Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post

- And if I wanted to make my make my installation future-proof (and pc-controllable), what kind of controls would you recommend? I've noticed that my Control 80f cannot even control the additional functions of the mfx decoders ;-)

If you install more modern decoders and especially if you add current generation decoders to the mix you should upgrade to a better control system to get the best out of them. However what you use for a controller doesn't really affect how future proof your decoder installations are. You will find many arguments for a number of different controllers here on the forum and your choices range from pretty inexpensive (MS2) to state of the art like a CS3 or ECoS from ESU - neither of which are inexpensive at all!

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 08 May 2019 15:44:34(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,420
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post
I've noticed that my Control 80f cannot even control the additional functions of the mfx decoders ;-)
You can control up to 17 functions for a single loco provided you use 4 addresses per loco. Not that bad for a controller that is limited to 5 functions per address.

The 3642 should be digital out of the box. Some 33xx and 34xx locos also come with a digital decoder out of the box.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline David Dewar  
#4 Posted : 08 May 2019 16:23:30(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,605
Location: Scotland
Going into to digital why not buy a Marklin start set with the MS2 and then after seeing what you get from the loco and controller etc you can decide the best way to go forward. You could probably sell some of the older stuff you have to help with finances.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline ktsolias  
#5 Posted : 08 May 2019 16:28:37(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 360
Location: Athens
Hi

You must take in mind that the 60760 kit is good obly for some of your locos with DCM motor so:

3328=60760 or 60941 + 60972 or 60977 sound
3050=60944 + 60972 or 60977 sound
3642=Already digital (6080 decoder) can be upgraded with 60760 or 60941 + 60972 or 60977 sound
3199=60760 or 60941 + 60972 or 60977 sound
3021=60944 + 60972 or 60976 sound
3081=60944 + 60972 or 60976 sound
3354=60944 + 60972 or 60977 sound
As you can see the 60760 is only suitable to 2 locos

My opinion is that the mfx decoders are ages in front of the 60760 fx decoder
Your locos are quite good and need a better treatment.

For the controller the MS2 is Ok for the locos plus a small layout

Of course the CS3 is a state of the art

Good luck

Costas
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by ktsolias
Offline dickinsonj  
#6 Posted : 08 May 2019 16:52:26(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,074
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Going into to digital why not buy a Marklin start set with the MS2 ?


I like David's idea. Märklin's starter sets are one of their few bargains. If you went that route you would get some more track, the MS2 and a nice new loco and some wagons. Then even if you add a CS3 later on, the MS2 can still be used as a second controller. ThumpUp
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline geko  
#7 Posted : 08 May 2019 22:30:01(UTC)
geko

Belgium   
Joined: 06/05/2019(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Hainaut, Belgium
Thanks very much for the extensive answer!

Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post

The 60760 kit is the most economical solution, with the decoder costing just a little more than the motor upgrade parts alone. The downside is that this decoder is fairly primitive and I have not found that my older locos run very well using it. I have repurposed some of those decoders as function decoders and bought better decoders instead - either third generation Märklin ones or the excellent but more expensive ESU 4th generation decoders. Another option would be to do what I did by first upgrading with the 60760 and then installing a better decoder if you feel the need.


Yes, I think I will at least try a motor upgrade + Märklin decoder on one of the locomotives.

Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post

There are lots of choices in quality soldering irons - I bought a Hakko soldering station and have been very happy with its performance.


OK Thanks! And what kind of solder? Lead-free? Tin percentage?

Georges
-----------
Reviving my first-generation Märklin Digital (Control 80/80f) collection after 15 years, mainly CFL and SBB models on K-Rail.
Offline geko  
#8 Posted : 08 May 2019 22:31:32(UTC)
geko

Belgium   
Joined: 06/05/2019(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Hainaut, Belgium
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

The 3642 should be digital out of the box. Some 33xx and 34xx locos also come with a digital decoder out of the box.


Absolutely, my bad!!
Georges
-----------
Reviving my first-generation Märklin Digital (Control 80/80f) collection after 15 years, mainly CFL and SBB models on K-Rail.
Offline geko  
#9 Posted : 08 May 2019 22:34:09(UTC)
geko

Belgium   
Joined: 06/05/2019(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Hainaut, Belgium
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
Hi

You must take in mind that the 60760 kit is good obly for some of your locos with DCM motor so:

3328=60760 or 60941 + 60972 or 60977 sound
3050=60944 + 60972 or 60977 sound
3642=Already digital (6080 decoder) can be upgraded with 60760 or 60941 + 60972 or 60977 sound
3199=60760 or 60941 + 60972 or 60977 sound
3021=60944 + 60972 or 60976 sound
3081=60944 + 60972 or 60976 sound
3354=60944 + 60972 or 60977 sound
As you can see the 60760 is only suitable to 2 locos

My opinion is that the mfx decoders are ages in front of the 60760 fx decoder
Your locos are quite good and need a better treatment.

For the controller the MS2 is Ok for the locos plus a small layout

Of course the CS3 is a state of the art

Good luck

Costas



Thanks very much that's extremely helpful!! Is there an official source for this kind of information?


Georges
-----------
Reviving my first-generation Märklin Digital (Control 80/80f) collection after 15 years, mainly CFL and SBB models on K-Rail.
Offline bph  
#10 Posted : 08 May 2019 22:47:16(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Sout East Norway.
Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post
Hello all,
- I have a few locomotives that need a digital decoder: 3328 (SBB), 3050 (SBB), 3642 (DB), 3199 (DB), 3021/3081 (DB), 3354 (CFL). I found the Märklin 60760 High Performance Digital Retrofit Set that has been talked about elsewhere on this forum - would you recommend it? And would there be enough space in those locomotives to fit it? Or could I also install a newer mfx decoder? I'm especially looking for realistic low speeds and slow accelerations.

You might also consider getting the usb decoder programmer if you are going for msd3 etc. 60906 is an option if you want to keep the AC motor in a lock.

Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post
Hello all,
- What kind/brand of soldering iron would you recommend?

I’m happy with my Weller WX 1010, I was surprised of how good it was compared to my old station.

Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post
Hello all,
- And if I wanted to make my make my installation future-proof (and pc-controllable), what kind of controls would you recommend? I've noticed that my Control 80f cannot even control the additional functions of the mfx decoders ;-)

As mentioned by others, control 80f can handle 16 functions (f3 on 4th address is not usable).
So, for a start you can use your control 80f.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline geko  
#11 Posted : 08 May 2019 22:55:03(UTC)
geko

Belgium   
Joined: 06/05/2019(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Hainaut, Belgium
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

As mentioned by others, control 80f can handle 16 functions (f3 on 4th address is not usable).
So, for a start you can use your control 80f.


Hmm, any clue why my only locomotive with an mfx decoder (37663, SNCB) would not respond to the Control 80f function buttons? Only the lights are working (standard function). Note that I have a Control 80f and a Control 80 connected to the Central Unit.
Georges
-----------
Reviving my first-generation Märklin Digital (Control 80/80f) collection after 15 years, mainly CFL and SBB models on K-Rail.
Offline mvd71  
#12 Posted : 08 May 2019 23:20:05(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

As mentioned by others, control 80f can handle 16 functions (f3 on 4th address is not usable).
So, for a start you can use your control 80f.


Hmm, any clue why my only locomotive with an mfx decoder (37663, SNCB) would not respond to the Control 80f function buttons? Only the lights are working (standard function). Note that I have a Control 80f and a Control 80 connected to the Central Unit.


Are you using a 6020 central unit, or the 6021 central unit?
The 6020 will only give a single function regardless of the control 80f having additional buttons. To gain all functions of the 80f it must be used with a 6021 central unit.

If you want good slow speed running, then an upgrade of the motors is the best way, and use the latest mfx decoders. The 60760 was good value in its day, but the decoder performance had limitations that could be frustrating.

I would suggest a cs3 plus as a controller, this will future proof yourself as much as possible. The old control 80f may be able to be connected in the same way as with a cs2. Alternately, if you want to keep the price down, look for a used cs2.

Cheers..... Mike

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mvd71
Offline geko  
#13 Posted : 08 May 2019 23:43:26(UTC)
geko

Belgium   
Joined: 06/05/2019(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Hainaut, Belgium
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post

Hmm, any clue why my only locomotive with an mfx decoder (37663, SNCB) would not respond to the Control 80f function buttons? Only the lights are working (standard function). Note that I have a Control 80f and a Control 80 connected to the Central Unit.


Are you using a 6020 central unit, or the 6021 central unit?
The 6020 will only give a single function regardless of the control 80f having additional buttons. To gain all functions of the 80f it must be used with a 6021 central unit.


There we go, it's indeed a 6020. Thanks!!!

Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post

I would suggest a cs3 plus as a controller, this will future proof yourself as much as possible. The old control 80f may be able to be connected in the same way as with a cs2. Alternately, if you want to keep the price down, look for a used cs2.


Is the CS3 so much better than a CS2? I've read very contradictory things about that, including on this forum.
Georges
-----------
Reviving my first-generation Märklin Digital (Control 80/80f) collection after 15 years, mainly CFL and SBB models on K-Rail.
Offline applor  
#14 Posted : 09 May 2019 00:22:12(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,333
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post
I found the Märklin 60760 High Performance Digital Retrofit Set that has been talked about elsewhere on this forum - would you recommend it?


No the speed steps on those cheap decoders are really harsh (14 steps). I think it is far better and probably just as cheap to go with an ESU lokpilot standard (DCC) with ESU permanent magnet.
You can go with the Loksound 5 for those you want to put sound into.

Or as others have advised, you can go the Marklin decoders. ESU or Marklin are great, best to pick one only and then buy their decoder programmer to make things easier if going with sound.


At the least buy yourself a Mobile Station 2. They are cheap and work great and will allow you to use DCC decoders.

If you want something more serious, a CS2 or CS3 or ESU Ecos are all great.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by applor
Offline mvd71  
#15 Posted : 09 May 2019 00:38:26(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Auckland,
I haven't used the cs3 myself. I have the cs2 and connect the 6021 central unit and control 80f via the 60128 connector. I am happy with this setup, and when the cs3 was delivered to my dealer, he tested it and said that the major difference at that time was the processor speed. However as time goes by and software updates happen the difference may change.

I suspect if you found a used cs2 at a good price, you would probably be quite pleased with it. But that's just my thoughts..... Perhaps somebody who has used the cs2 and cs3 extensively could enlighten us here?

money saved on a used cs2 would pay for decoder/motor upgrades on the locos.

I have just received a 60906 decoder, once installed I can have a good idea of running quality.

Eric is right with the 60760, harsh, and can suffer from memory loss on a dead spot.

Cheers.... Mike
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mvd71
Offline dickinsonj  
#16 Posted : 09 May 2019 00:56:12(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,074
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post

Is the CS3 so much better than a CS2? I've read very contradictory things about that, including on this forum.

In my opinion the CS3 is clearly a better controller than a CS2, which is what I am still using. It has faster and more modern hardware but the concerns you see on the forum are largely related to its software. The CS3 software adds interesting automation options that the CS2 will never have and they add more features on a regular basis.

Märklin is a MRR company and not a software company and from what I can tell the CS3 software is still not quite ready for prime time. I plan to upgrade eventually but my CS2 serves my purposes and I would prefer to let all of the CS3 users be Märklin's beta testers. The downside to a CS2 is that even being out of date they still sell for a good bit of money. I agree with Mike that if you plan to stick with this hobby going forward the CS3 is a better choice. Updating them is pretty easy and they will get the current bugs sorted out one of these days - although there are still some oddities in the CS2 software too.

I have used both ESU and Märklin decoders but when I started to install primarily sound decoders I settled on mSD/3 decoders, because I only wanted to buy into one programming environment. The ESU decoders definitely have their advantages but their programming tool (LokPilot) costs more than the Märklin USB decoder stick and the Märklin software for it is free. I agree with Eric that you should pick one and then stick with it, as they both are quite good.

I only use lead free solder, although there might be arguments in favor of other formulations - but lead free is definitely safer to use IMO.

Have fun with your trains - returning to this hobby has been a great experience for me. ThumpUp
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline ixldoc  
#17 Posted : 09 May 2019 08:02:54(UTC)
ixldoc

Australia   
Joined: 18/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 203
Location: Brisbane,Australia
Hi Mike (mvd71),
I have installed a 60906 decoder in a 3050 Ae6/6 analogue loco I had lying around.
This has the LFC motor as you know. The engine was serviced and was in good running order.
The decoder was a bit bigger than I expected maybe because it is only populated on one side with SMD components.
It has quite a few largish wires attached with floating ends so I made up an in-line plug and a separate board to connect it up.
The functions work well ( I only used front and rear lights red,white changeover) and an internal light.
It did the usual mfx thing and loaded into my Ecos ok.
The disappointing thing was the groaning noise from the motor at start off. Once it had some speed up, this settled down.
The speed control itself was fine.
I have another of these locos with an ESU V4 decoder fitted (with permanent magnet) and it is one of the best runners I have.
It starts to move without a sound on the first notch of the Ecos controller.
I will be interested to hear how your installation goes. It may be the starting voltage CV or some other CV needs tweaking.
The ability to drive the field coil motor has to be a good idea.
Cheers,
Howard.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by ixldoc
Offline ktsolias  
#18 Posted : 09 May 2019 08:52:33(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 360
Location: Athens
Hi

For me the 60906 decoder have a place only in locomotives that can not be converted to DC motor, and you want to have an mfx decoder with some functions.

The Alstom motor is only good for museum models... in these days.

The decoder is quite expensive for what is it

Regards

Costas
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ktsolias
Offline geko  
#19 Posted : 09 May 2019 13:27:06(UTC)
geko

Belgium   
Joined: 06/05/2019(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Hainaut, Belgium
Based on everything you said (and thanks a lot !!) I'm gonna try and convert my 3199 (DB) with the 60941 motor upgrade set and the 60972 decoder. That locomotive is not part of my core collection so even if I f*** up it's not a big problem Laugh .
I would also buy the Hakko FX-888d soldering station, and some solder wire (I found two apparently common mixes, Sn99.3/Cu0.7 and Sn95/Ag4/Cu1 - which one should I choose?).
Georges
-----------
Reviving my first-generation Märklin Digital (Control 80/80f) collection after 15 years, mainly CFL and SBB models on K-Rail.
Offline mvd71  
#20 Posted : 11 May 2019 05:34:05(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Auckland,
Hi,

Having now used the 60906 decoder, I would suggest you use the 60972 (or sound decoder version) and motor upgrade on all your locos if money is not an issue. The 60906 was a good decoder, but I think you will be happier with the running characteristics of the decoder you are using. That combined with a CS2/3 and you should be very happy.

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mvd71
Offline Harryv40  
#21 Posted : 11 May 2019 10:52:29(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 196
Location: Wilshire
Hello Georges
Welcome to the forum!

I have read all the advice you have been given and it all appears to be very sound.

My advice would be buy a Marklin Start Set this will give you all you need to get up to speed with Marklin today! Make sure it as a MS2 and request the software is updated on the MS2, I think it should be 2.5 or 2.6 version.

This will give you all you need to control 16 functions including sound, track box and transformer plus loco etc. Most of the online stores have various offers on from time to time. Modellbahn Lippe, BW Bahn, Lok Museum, are a few of the many online stores.

I prefer the MS 2 simply because if it goes wrong it costs between 80 & 110 euros to replace and you can connect two of these to the track box. If your CS3 goes wrong it’s could cost up to 700euros plus to replace.

I currently have 24 locos some delta, some FX or MFX, Roco and Brawa and with help and advice from the forum they all work very happily. It’s important to remember to persevere, you will have days when you start that are great and some not so great, it’s part of learning.

It’s also important to think about what part of the hobby you enjoy most, running the trains, building the layout, etc it’s all part of the fun.

Best wishes and we are all here to help.

Harry
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Harryv40
Offline geko  
#22 Posted : 13 May 2019 14:33:58(UTC)
geko

Belgium   
Joined: 06/05/2019(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Hainaut, Belgium
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post
Hello Georges
Welcome to the forum!

I have read all the advice you have been given and it all appears to be very sound.


Thanks! Yes, very good advice, and I will report on my progress.

Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post

My advice would be buy a Marklin Start Set this will give you all you need to get up to speed with Marklin today! Make sure it as a MS2 and request the software is updated on the MS2, I think it should be 2.5 or 2.6 version.

That's good to know! Is the software user-upgradeable?

Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post

I prefer the MS 2 simply because if it goes wrong it costs between 80 & 110 euros to replace and you can connect two of these to the track box. If your CS3 goes wrong it’s could cost up to 700euros plus to replace.

Definitely. Is the CS3 likely to go wrong?

Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post

I currently have 24 locos some delta, some FX or MFX, Roco and Brawa and with help and advice from the forum they all work very happily. It’s important to remember to persevere, you will have days when you start that are great and some not so great, it’s part of learning.

It’s also important to think about what part of the hobby you enjoy most, running the trains, building the layout, etc it’s all part of the fun.

Best wishes and we are all here to help.

Harry

Thanks ;-)

Georges
-----------
Reviving my first-generation Märklin Digital (Control 80/80f) collection after 15 years, mainly CFL and SBB models on K-Rail.
Offline mvd71  
#23 Posted : 16 May 2019 11:15:00(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Auckland,
I wouldn't have expected a cs3 would go wrong as a rule. I have been running a cs2 since they came out and it's been very reliable.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mvd71
Offline David Dewar  
#24 Posted : 16 May 2019 14:58:12(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,605
Location: Scotland
Had my CS3 PLus for six months with no problems. Also have a 10 year old approx. CS2 with no problems.

I would go with a start set as a cheaper way in. However you do not need to pay as much as 700 euros for a CS3 as there are dealers selling at much less.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline TEEWolf  
#25 Posted : 17 May 2019 00:09:05(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,544
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post

My advice would be buy a Marklin Start Set this will give you all you need to get up to speed with Marklin today! Make sure it as a MS2 and request the software is updated on the MS2, I think it should be 2.5 or 2.6 version.


That's good to know! Is the software user-upgradeable?


A software user is always upgradable too. But you need a big bottle of champagne for it.Love

But meanwhile Märklin achieved the software version 3.55 for the MS 2 and SW version 1.41 for the track box. (Was also upgraded last time). The last SW update to the vers. 3.55 was a significant one for the MS 2. Even Märklin published a new manual for this MS 2.

https://www.marklin-user...unread-CS3-v1-4-1-Update

Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post

I prefer the MS 2 simply because if it goes wrong it costs between 80 & 110 euros to replace and you can connect two of these to the track box. If your CS3 goes wrong it’s could cost up to 700euros plus to replace.


You may attach more than 2 MS 2 to your digital layout, if you use the MS 2 hub 60122. See this thread at MUN.

https://www.marklin-user...unread-CS3-v1-4-1-Update

post #6
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline dickinsonj  
#26 Posted : 17 May 2019 01:16:25(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,074
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: geko Go to Quoted Post

That's good to know! Is the software user-upgradeable?

Yes it is! Märklin does a pretty good job with upgrades and they are free for the many years that they support their products. They happen when needed but you aren't buried like you can be by Windows 10 and their constant feature updates. It is easy to download them to a USB stick or directly to your CS3 if it has a connection to the Internet. I just temporarily plug mine into my main router to do the upgrades and the rest of the time it is on router which is not Internet connected.

My 60215 CS2 has worked perfectly for 4 years. I also returned to Märklin trains after 15+ years with only 1st gen digital, and the capabilities and performance of the new digital models is a world ahead of back then.

After expanding the embedded chip (decoder) memory to allow for up to 32 functions, accessed by the CS3 Märklin released a software update to allow you to also control all of the functions from a CS2. IMO that went above and beyond being nice to your customers because most companies want to force you on to new hardware and Märklin has made sticking with the older hardware viable. They just recently updated the MS2 software to allow it to control 32 functions which I didn't really expect.

What I never expected were the high asking prices for used ones. Just today a new, never used 20214 CS2 was put up on eBay for $500 USD, which seems like a lot of money for a competent but old and slow control system. Considering that price, a CS3 is a much better value, particularly when you buy it in a starter set as David and Wolfgang have suggested. You can get incredible prices for them in sets compared to buying exactly the same things individually.

Have Fun! ThumpUp
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#27 Posted : 18 May 2019 22:46:24(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,255
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

A software user is always upgradable too. But you need a big bottle of champagne for it.Love


Laugh Laugh Laugh Only trouble is you read the hyphen in the wrong place BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

Offline kiwiAlan  
#28 Posted : 18 May 2019 23:49:41(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,255
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
It is easy to download them to a USB stick or directly to your CS3 if it has a connection to the Internet.


Except that some of the minor upgrades (typically adding new locos without upgrading the functionality of the cs) is only available on the internet. It is only when new features get added to the cs that they seem to issue a USB download version.


thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline dickinsonj  
#29 Posted : 19 May 2019 01:41:38(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,074
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

Except that some of the minor upgrades (typically adding new locos without upgrading the functionality of the cs) is only available on the internet. It is only when new features get added to the cs that they seem to issue a USB download version

Very true and something I forget because I only do my updates over the Internet.

But it makes no sense to me why the same updates wouldn't be available for download to USB. I can see a lot of advantages to the USB connection once my layout is in its own world and finding no need to be Internet connected at all. ThumpUp
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2019, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.046 seconds.