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Offline steventrain  
#1 Posted : 31 March 2019 13:33:32(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Infor from MMC

2019 new item brochure page 136.

English translate.

26.03.2019 - Cancellations and replacements for some Märklin and Trix novelties

Cancellation and replacement for 36206 / T22286 / T22289
Cancellation and replacement for 36206 / T22286 / T22289

Unfortunately Märklin has to cancel the novelty of the electric locomotive BR 380, CD, ep. VI, advertising locomotive "KAROQ" (article no. 36206 / T22286 / T22289) announced at the fair in Nuremberg. The already granted approval for the production of this locomotive was regrettably withdrawn by the licensor. For this reason, these items will soon be replaced in the dealer backlogs by the new version with item numbers 36209 (for 36206) and T22298 (for T22289). The article T22286 will be canceled without replacement.

The new items are a locomotive of the 380 CD series in blue / silver livery with new company number (380 001).

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 02 April 2019 00:59:51(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
..

Unfortunately Märklin has to cancel the novelty of the electric locomotive BR 380, CD, ep. VI, advertising locomotive "KAROQ" (article no. 36206 / T22286 / T22289) ..

The new items are a locomotive of the 380 CD series in blue / silver livery with new company number (380 001).



Thank you Stephen,

The replacement model will be the same as (or similar to) the 36203 which was available in shops the last few months.
And it is still available to order from Maerklin.
The 36203 has the running number 380 006-7.

So you can run a double-header if you wish.

The roof detail on the 380 CD 36203 and the DBAG BR 102 36202 are different.
I have both, they are very nice models and run well.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Minok  
#3 Posted : 02 April 2019 21:14:11(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
How common is this sort of license issue? Seems a very strange way to do business, but maybe its the norm.
If I'd need a license to do a production run, I'd get the license for the production run, and once granted that license should not be revocable; a deal was done.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Minok
Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 02 April 2019 21:57:19(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,107
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
How common is this sort of license issue? Seems a very strange way to do business, but maybe its the norm.
If I'd need a license to do a production run, I'd get the license for the production run, and once granted that license should not be revocable; a deal was done.


Any model will require a license from the copyright holder of the original livery. Such a license may be fee free or require a fee to be paid.

This has caused some consternation in USA where one of the major rail companies (IIRC it was Union Pacific) suddenly required license arrangements with model manufacturers to produce items using their livery. It was all settled amicably and without any fee payments (although I believe part of the original license requirement was a per model fee). Auto makers such as General Motors have been through similar loops with model manufacturers.

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Offline kimballthurlow  
#5 Posted : 02 April 2019 22:48:37(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
The issue of licences to model manufacturers is all about protecting the brand name.
A major (or any) corporation does not want its name mis-represented or shown in a bad light.
For the most part, model manufacturers have no wish to do anything other than represent the brand faithfully.
If a dildo manufacturer wanted a licence to use the DB AG logo, I very much doubt they would get permission.

I have first hand knowledge of Union Pacific Railroad, when their legal department suddenly got all conscientious in the early 1990s to protect their rights as an owner.
Our club Union Pacific Model Railroad Club in Brisbane received a letter asking us to show cause why we should use the name.
After our submission we got a reply with a style manual (100s of pages thick) giving us permission to use the name so long as we strictly followed the manual in any artwork or promotion.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
Offline Minok  
#6 Posted : 03 April 2019 00:35:50(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
How common is this sort of license issue? Seems a very strange way to do business, but maybe its the norm.
If I'd need a license to do a production run, I'd get the license for the production run, and once granted that license should not be revocable; a deal was done.


Any model will require a license from the copyright holder of the original livery. Such a license may be fee free or require a fee to be paid.

This has caused some consternation in USA where one of the major rail companies (IIRC it was Union Pacific) suddenly required license arrangements with model manufacturers to produce items using their livery. It was all settled amicably and without any fee payments (although I believe part of the original license requirement was a per model fee). Auto makers such as General Motors have been through similar loops with model manufacturers.




I understand that. The language of the post though

Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Infor from MMC
The already granted approval for the production of this locomotive was regrettably withdrawn by the licensor.



made it seem (to me) that a license had already been secured, and that at this late juncture the license holder revoked the permission to produce. That ability to revoke seemed odd.

The original MMC statement in German "Die bereits erteilte Genehmigung zur Produktion dieser Lokomotive wurde vom Lizenzgeber bedauernswerterweise wieder zurückgezogen. " expresses that as well, that the licensee had granted license, and then withdrew it. Effectively changing their mind. That this can happen I found odd. That one needs a license from the owners of the design wasn't questioned.

My wild guess is that the loco manufacturer gave the approval but they had not actually obtained the approval of the owner of the advertising artwork on the side, and once that owner became aware of the usage, they also wanted a cut or didn't approve, and thus the whole thing fell apart. Just a wild guess though.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline Minok  
#7 Posted : 03 April 2019 00:46:28(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
The issue of licences to model manufacturers is all about protecting the brand name.
A major (or any) corporation does not want its name mis-represented or shown in a bad light.
For the most part, model manufacturers have no wish to do anything other than represent the brand faithfully.
If a dildo manufacturer wanted a licence to use the DB AG logo, I very much doubt they would get permission.

I have first hand knowledge of Union Pacific Railroad, when their legal department suddenly got all conscientious in the early 1990s to protect their rights as an owner.
Our club Union Pacific Model Railroad Club in Brisbane received a letter asking us to show cause why we should use the name.
After our submission we got a reply with a style manual (100s of pages thick) giving us permission to use the name so long as we strictly followed the manual in any artwork or promotion.

Kimball


This thing UP did is a legal requirement. If one owns a registered trade mark or copyright (or patent), in the US and most likely elsewhere the same principles apply, then one is OBLIGATED that if you see your trademark/copyrighted work/patent being used without your permission, you must take action to stop the unlicensed use. If you don't take action, your claim to your trademark/copyright/patent can get cancelled.

So lots of companies in the modern era are now pursuing protection of their intellectual property much more vigorously.

Another example is the recent case of LEGO and "Held der Steine", a YouTuber who owned a store that sold LEGOs, and was trying to protect the logo for his store and channel with the title "Held der Steine" and a plastic brick in the background. LEGO holds the rights to the mark that is that style of 2x2 and 2x3 brick as a trademark, and as such had to protect it and issue a cease-and-desist request to the guy.
(As a side not, the way LEGO handled it was the wrong way. Rather than picking up the phone and calling to say, "Hey, we hold the rights to that graphical depiction and are required to protect it, please change your logo to something else" they instead had legal send a letter to the store owner telling him he needed to stop using that logo. Subtle difference sure, and not sure it would have made a difference, but in the end the owner changed his logo, but also ceased being a LEGO retailer, now selling multiple brands of "interlocking brick product" form a variety of manufacturers besides LEGO. On the plus side if one watches his YouTube channel you see reviews and videos of kits now from various Chinese and Polish manufacturers as well.)
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Minok
Offline kimballthurlow  
#8 Posted : 03 April 2019 11:05:20(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
.. the way LEGO handled it was the wrong way. .. they instead had legal send a letter to the store owner telling him he needed to stop using that logo. ..[/indent]


Hi Thomas,

My business had a similar letter from the attorneys for a very large corporation, opposing our application for a trademark.
My trademark attorney said at the time it was not even-handed, in that the corporation lawyers sent the letter direct to our business (a small family company) instead of to our legal representative.

Anyway it was all settled, but only after the corporation understood we were resolved to fight it and were not likely to be cowed by might.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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