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Offline Twinrover1965  
#1 Posted : 24 March 2019 19:11:02(UTC)
Twinrover1965

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: England, London
Does any other manufacturer produce power controllers for third rail AC analogue control or is it just Marklin? I seem to recall mention in the forum of an Australian company which produces such a controller but can't find the page. I am not very happy with the latest Marklin analogue device - the 66471 - owing to poor slow running qualities and rather bland design. It's a pity they can't follow Kato's example and produce something that has visual appeal and works well.

Also, could a Bachmann British Railways OO DC Class 105 Cravens DMU be converted to AC operation? An easy job or tricky? Can anybody recommend somebody in the London UK area who could undertake a conversion at a reasonable price if possible. I would love to hear and see this DMU go over my M Track points!!

I recently purchased a Sud Express DC electric loco direct from Portugal; a superb unit by the way. Interestingly, these are already supplied with a skate as an accessory and instructions for conversion - is this a new trend? Has there been a recent change to DC motors to make a conversion from DC two rail to AC third rail just a fairly straightforward procedure or is it just the Portuguese who are leading the way?

I was at the large London Festival of Model Railways at Alexandra Palace yesterday afternoon but no mention of Hornby International's products on the Hornby stand let alone being able to answer questions about continuing their AC versions. God help us! The Spanish must be furious with what had been a much loved and popular brand being ruined by these dullards. Gaugemaster surprisingly had a sophisticated Fleischmann layout in full swing, which was very popular with attendees, but alas no Marklin!

The German Railway Society was there and they were very helpful with some queries I had on DB E10, E110, E140 and E150 locos.

Hope somebody can assist with my queries, thanks.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 24 March 2019 19:55:03(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Twinrover1965 Go to Quoted Post
Does any other manufacturer produce power controllers for third rail AC analogue control or is it just Marklin? I seem to recall mention in the forum of an Australian company which produces such a controller but can't find the page. I am not very happy with the latest Marklin analogue device - the 66471 - owing to poor slow running qualities and rather bland design. It's a pity they can't follow Kato's example and produce something that has visual appeal and works well.


Marklin are the only manufacturer of AC controllers that I know of. I don't think you will find any change in running characteristics by using anyone elses controller, this is an inherent part of the motor arrangement and the lack of feedback to the controller. You may get better performance from a loco fitted with a digital decoder, but not always.

Originally Posted by: Twinrover1965 Go to Quoted Post

Also, could a Bachmann British Railways OO DC Class 105 Cravens DMU be converted to AC operation? An easy job or tricky? Can anybody recommend somebody in the London UK area who could undertake a conversion at a reasonable price if possible. I would love to hear and see this DMU go over my M Track points!!


I recently picked up a 3 unit DMU off our clubs second hand stand which I have been considering converting. I don't think it will be a 'big' job of I can fit a pickup shoe to an unpowered bogie. After that is done then fitting a digital decoder will allow it to run on Marklin AC or digital systems.

Originally Posted by: Twinrover1965 Go to Quoted Post

I recently purchased a Sud Express DC electric loco direct from Portugal; a superb unit by the way. Interestingly, these are already supplied with a skate as an accessory and instructions for conversion - is this a new trend? Has there been a recent change to DC motors to make a conversion from DC two rail to AC third rail just a fairly straightforward procedure or is it just the Portuguese who are leading the way?


Any DC motor equipped item can be converted to Marklin AC use by fitting a suitable digital decoder such as those from Marklin or ESU. They only other requirement is somewhere to fit a pickup shoe, whch this manufacturer has realised expands their market somewhat by a bit of forward planning at the design stage.

Originally Posted by: Twinrover1965 Go to Quoted Post

I was at the large London Festival of Model Railways at Alexandra Palace yesterday afternoon but no mention of Hornby International's products on the Hornby stand let alone being able to answer questions about continuing their AC versions. God help us! The Spanish must be furious with what had been a much loved and popular brand being ruined by these dullards. Gaugemaster surprisingly had a sophisticated Fleischmann layout in full swing, which was very popular with attendees, but alas no Marklin!

The German Railway Society was there and they were very helpful with some queries I had on DB E10, E110, E140 and E150 locos.

Hope somebody can assist with my queries, thanks.


You have found out why Gaugemaster is pretty widely derided by the Marklin community in the UK. They used to do a pretty good job of promoting Marklin until they lost the dealership, and then when they regained it they didn't carry on as they had previously.

It is worth joining the German Railway Society, they have some very informative booklets. The difference on price for members for just their books on signalling against the cost for non-members, more than makes up for the cost of membership. They also have some informative books on loco classes. Highly recommend being a member.

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Markus Schild  
#3 Posted : 24 March 2019 20:14:52(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

I prefer TITAN - transformers. They don't produce new transformers any more. But they appear frequently on Ebay-Germany. Look for "Titan 107M". HAG also sold transformers. But they are rare outside of Switzerland. And still expensive.

Regards

Markus
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Offline lewistrain  
#4 Posted : 24 March 2019 23:09:17(UTC)
lewistrain

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 77
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
twinrover, have you considered a variable voltage, variable frequency power supply?.
LOLOLOL they are just toys, grow up and play with them.
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Offline Michael4  
#5 Posted : 24 March 2019 23:53:56(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
Have you considered Marklin 6699 and 6600 for improved slow running and control?
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Offline hxmiesa  
#6 Posted : 25 March 2019 09:54:57(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post

I prefer TITAN - transformers. They don't produce new transformers any more. But they appear frequently on Ebay-Germany. Look for "Titan 107M". HAG also sold transformers. But they are rare outside of Switzerland. And still expensive.

I use TITAN trafos!

I have four 35VA units and one 100VA unit.
I bought them all second-hand in both Denmark and Spain.
The TITAN trafos were cheaper than the Märklin trafos, and the extra 5VA are nice too.

I think they have the same problem as the light-blue Märklin trafos; They were originally made for 220V, and will thus today (230V-240V) give too high a voltage when the operator gives the direction-change pulse. (thus damaging the electronics in the locos)
For that reason I only use the TITAN trafos with a fixed speed-setting. (my layout is analogue)

Today, in my opinion, one should really only stick with Märklins own white trafos, which are reasonably cheap "as-new" from older broken-up starter set. In Denmark there were (summer 2018) lots of them on sale in the "second-hand" baskets of stuff...
These white trafos will not damage modern electronics.

The older Märklin 6699 and 6600 units are absolutly MURDER for modern electronics, as they use PWM up to 200Hz, and the reverse-pulse is a rectified DC pulse much higher than the 24V the older trafos were meant to send out.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline SteamNut  
#7 Posted : 25 March 2019 10:25:43(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
I have seen here in the States a Lionel transformer used on a analog system being used for a layout at a estate sale. Most likely it would not be recommended and since the owner sadly passed away I could not ask any questions how it preformed.
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 25 March 2019 11:31:18(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I use TITAN trafos!

I have four 35VA units and one 100VA unit.
I bought them all second-hand in both Denmark and Spain.
The TITAN trafos were cheaper than the Märklin trafos, and the extra 5VA are nice too.

I think they have the same problem as the light-blue Märklin trafos; They were originally made for 220V, and will thus today (230V-240V) give too high a voltage when the operator gives the direction-change pulse. (thus damaging the electronics in the locos)
Did you measure the reversing voltage?

Mains voltage has changed from 220 V to 230 V in continental Europe - and this means that the reversing voltage rises from 24 V to 25.091 V - and this shouldn't be an issue at all.
Blue Märklin transformers that kill decoders at 230 V can already be harmful for decoders at 220 V - using step-down transformers for 230/220 V is not a solution here.



Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Marklin are the only manufacturer of AC controllers that I know of.
Märklin are a reseller for transformers and power supplies made by Steger or made for Steger.

But the AC controllers are probably available under the Märklin brand only.

The DC controllers come in different colours from the same manufacturer under various brands:
https://www.stegertrafo....odellbahnfahrregler.html

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline rbw993  
#9 Posted : 25 March 2019 17:07:32(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 954
Lionel transformers will run the locomotives but can't reverse them. Lionel reversing worked by power interruption not a voltage spike. I have never seen a Lionel transformer for anything other than 110V mains.

Roger
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