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Offline cookee_nz  
#1 Posted : 27 May 2018 12:08:05(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Hi all,

Many of you will have seen the posting by BD regarding my unveiling of something I acquired earlier this year - an original mid-1950's display piece "Wunderrad" (Wonderwheel) BKM 7 built from Märklin Metall to display H0 in a rather novel way with just the Loco (CM 800 / 3000) and pulling three wagons actually driving a large 10kg Ferris wheel.

During my research I have located several examples of the same item at various locations, and what I'm now looking for is verification of those, as well as any new examples not yet recorded of which I am sure there must be at least a couple more.

My starting point was a reference on the German forum stating that around a dozen examples were known to exist. This got me curious, but mainly because my initial aim was to seek more information about the item in general, and where better to start than existing owners? Unfortunately (but not totally unexpected), response has rather low. Most people these days are busy, especially Toy Museums and the like which are often run by volunteers. Not to mention I don't speak German, and may not be asking in the correct manner. Blushing

So what I'm asking is for anyone who has seen one of these Wonderwheels "in the flesh", to provide some details. Not much, basically just confirming where it is, Museum, privately owned etc, whether it is open to view by the public, (or special arrangement), and most importantly, some good clear photographs of it from as many angles as possible. The main reason for this is to rule out duplicates where an item may have changed hands, but also as an aid to identifying variations in the models and a further benefit is that if anyone particularly wanted to see one, they may not be far away already.

And of course if you are lucky to be able to speak to someone who knows the history of the item, where it originally came from etc, note that as well. If any details are provided but not for public information, then please PM me rather than posting here.

What I have listed below are all the examples I have found so far. Virtually all my research has been from the internet, and a couple of word-of-mouth references. I have listed them in the order they appear on the 'net, ie the earliest article or reference to one is listed first. For the few that I have been told about, they are entered when I heard about them. And of course the URL for the information as reference.

The URL may be a direct obvious link, or it could be a link to a mention on another forum.

It took quite a lot of search manipulation trying different combinations of keywords to find some of them, those keywords/tags include; (apart from the obvious "Märklin")...

Wunderrad, Riesenrad, Werbehilfen, Verkaufsmodelle, Schaufenstermodell, Wonderwheel, Ferris Wheel, Sales Aid and probably some I have forgotten, some with and without spaces, variations on capitalization, searches on images as well as content but I may (certainly) still have missed something obvious that the native speaker of another language might find easily.

I should also add that the wheel is known to have been produced in German, Swedish, English and Italian versions. I would also expect to find Dutch, and possibly one or two other continental languages where Märklin had a strong presence.

Anything I have been asked to keep private I have done so, but if I have accidentally disclosed something that should not be here please do let me know.

I would really appreciate letting me know of any errors in this posting, link problems etc, but I'd also like anyone who has personal knowledge of any of the museums, or lives nearby if you could confirm the actual location and address, a link to their web site etc.

I hope it makes interesting reading. If there is an additional URL, I've added it below the entry

1: 13/01/2008 - Heinz Busch, Holdenstedt - Privately owned - (would love a better copy of this article)

2: 04/12/2009 - Frank Ronneburg, Tischbahn - Privately owned -

3: 08/01/2010 - Moba Train display (ownership unknown) -
Alt URL - http://www.mobatrain.de/!_Veranstaltungen/Modellbahntage.html

4: 02/07/2012 - Tuebingen Boxenstop (Museum) -

5: 20/02/2015 - Musuem? - Darmstad Nord (?) - ** Possibly a replica **
** Some detailed photos might help confirm this because some of the components could be difficult to replicate - ie the rotating banner top and bottom covers, and the main axle with commutator/slip ring.

6: 01/07/2016 - Walter-Eisenbahnen - Privately owned? (or on-sold) -

7: 13/11/2016 - Spielzeug Museum, Trier -
Alt URL (article) - www.landesverband.lu/download/2224/signal-092016-web.pdf ** Article on Page 32

8: 05/06/2017 - Treuchtlingen - (LED pimped) - Musuem - ** Possibly a replica **
** Some detailed photos might help confirm this because some of the components could be difficult to replicate - ie the rotating banner top and bottom covers, and the main axle with commutator/slip ring.
Alt URL - www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxPBmJKsrB4

9: 04/10/2017 - Frederik Niehues (Auction listing - wheel only) -

10: 01/12/2017 - AnticoMondoAuktionen, Bornheim, (Auction listing) - Possibly near-original. Packing crate and all.
** Almost certainly has since changed hands

11: 06/04/2018 - Franz H. Frankfurt (friend of Andreas H) - Privately Owned - confirmed and have photos

12: 25/04/2018 - Erwin Kleemeier, Bad Oeynhausen - mentioned in "Spielzeug Revue" Apr 1999 - article not online.
** If anyone has copies of Spielzeug Revue and can provide a scan for me it would be much appreciated, it seems other similar items were covered as well.

13: 12/01/2015 - Eslöv Toy Museum, Sweden -
** Swedish version

14: 08/11/2017 - Erlebniswelt Toggenburg, Switzerland, (Musuem, on loan?) -

Outside Europe

15: 31/07/2011 - National Toy Train Museum PA, USA -
** Several other references can be found to this wheel which is also the only confirmed English version.

16: 07/01/2012 - Nette Auctions, Danbury, CT, USA (Auction) -
** Buyer unknown - may be another of the items listed here

17: 24/03/2018 - Andreas Hildebrandt, USA, Privately owned - have confirmed directly with Andreas, photos pending. (Sancho has seen it)

18: 24/03/2018 - Sold by a German seller to a new owner in the USA (advised privately)

19: 2018 - Stephen Cook, Wellington NZ - Privately owned (my own wheel)

I have also been advised that Frans Bevers, Malle also owns one. I asked here about his Museum recently but at that stage could not really reveal why I was asking. I have not included Frans in this list at this stage, it may or may not be a further example but if anyone visits that exhibit, and sees it, photos please!!!

** And finally, there is quite possibly another example in the USA - the first time I heard about any of these wheels and what started me on this was an article I read several years ago (10 give or take) which was very clear that there was a Restaurant somewhere in the USA which had one along the wall and operating. I have not been able to find that original article despite * many * hours searching. I've checked the MML, and other forums. I've also read many old MEA handelspost and US Märklin Insider magazines as well, thinking it was most likely in one of those. That wheel may since have changed hands of course but if anyone knows of it, or the article I refer to I'd LOVE to know. No doubt it's hiding in plain sight!!

Thanks in advance for any help.

Cookee

And here is the page from the 1957 Verkaufsmodelle catalogue showing the Wunderrad as new numbering item "0100". (Provided by a German source who wishes to remain anonymous)

There are several other similar advertising models but that's another topic altogether. Love

0100.jpg

Edited by user 02 June 2018 05:14:16(UTC)  | Reason: Update links, edit listing, further confirmation

Cookee
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Offline Unholz  
#2 Posted : 27 May 2018 15:13:18(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,223
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post

14: 08/11/2017 - Erlebniswelt Toggenburg, Switzerland, (Musuem, on loan?) -


Yes, it is sort of a museum combined with a vintage 0 gauge layout and other layouts. This wheel was last seen exhibited there in November 2017 (on loan to the museum by a private person):
http://www.marklinfan.co.../topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3934
It's not too far from my home. I can go and check on it sometime this summer if you like.
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Offline cookee_nz  
#3 Posted : 27 May 2018 22:39:41(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post

14: 08/11/2017 - Erlebniswelt Toggenburg, Switzerland, (Musuem, on loan?) -


Yes, it is sort of a museum combined with a vintage 0 gauge layout and other layouts. This wheel was last seen exhibited there in November 2017 (on loan to the museum by a private person):
http://www.marklinfan.co.../topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3934
It's not too far from my home. I can go and check on it sometime this summer if you like.


That would be awesome if you get the opportunity ThumpUp
Cookee
Wellington
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Offline TEEWolf  
#4 Posted : 28 May 2018 02:01:23(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,455
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

Many of you will have seen the posting by BD regarding my unveiling of something I acquired earlier this year - an original mid-1950's display piece "Wunderrad" (Wonderwheel) BKM 7 built from Märklin Metall to display H0 in a rather novel way with just the Loco (CM 800 / 3000) and pulling three wagons actually driving a large 10kg Ferris wheel. ...


Hello cookee_nz,

NNA (= Nice New Avatar BigGrin ).

Did you scale the "Wonder-Wheel" (translation for "Wunderrad")? I read it should have about 300 kg weight?!
One of these rare WW (only a few one should have been sold via the retail trade) was at the Märklin Museum for the 150 year celebrations. Did you ask the Märklin Museum about their knowleges of this WW?

reagrds

TEEWolf
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Offline cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 28 May 2018 04:14:27(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

Many of you will have seen the posting by BD regarding my unveiling of something I acquired earlier this year - an original mid-1950's display piece "Wunderrad" (Wonderwheel) BKM 7 built from Märklin Metall to display H0 in a rather novel way with just the Loco (CM 800 / 3000) and pulling three wagons actually driving a large 10kg Ferris wheel. ...


Hello cookee_nz,

NNA (= Nice New Avatar BigGrin ).

Did you scale the "Wonder-Wheel" (translation for "Wunderrad")? I read it should have about 300 kg weight?!
One of these rare WW (only a few one should have been sold via the retail trade) was at the Märklin Museum for the 150 year celebrations. Did you ask the Märklin Museum about their knowleges of this WW?

reagrds

TEEWolf


The Wunderrad weighs around 20-25kg. The wheel itself is just over 10kg, the frame is a little heavier. The one that has been displayed at the Märklin Musuem is in a special cabinet, I think it is coin-operated.

If they say it is 300kg, then the cabinet alone must be about 275kg by itself!! That is a lot of wood.

I can carry the wheel with one hand, the frame needs two BigGrin

At this stage, I have not approached Märklin directly, because I fear what their answer will be "Sorry, we have no information about it". I think it is all in how you approach them.

But I have asked my local friendly factory-direct dealer to make some enquiries for me and will see what comes out.

Otherwise, I might have to ring Herr Florian Sieber and have a private chat LOL Love

From what Markus told me, and other info, the dealers often got a good discount for this sort of item, and the idea was that after they had finished with it as a display, it could be dismantled and sold as parts.

The listed price in 1957 was DM 285, In 1957 the 3017 (ST800) was DM 125, The biggest starter set was 3207 (SK800 plus coaches) and that was DM 140, So even at a discount the Wunderwheel was still quite an investment for the dealer.

Thankfully, a few seem to have survived. There would also not be too many shops with enough spare space to have something like this on show.

And the Wonderwheel is not the biggest item they made like this!

Cheers
Cookee
Wellington
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Offline Markus Schild  
#6 Posted : 28 May 2018 17:53:20(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

The wheel which was used in the Märklin Museum and also at other exhibitions (Tübingen, Lindau) is the one now owned by Frank Ronneburg. The wheels at Darmstadt (train Museum) and at Tübingen are no originals. These are reproductions as far as I know.

There is one other shown in the book "125 Jahre Märklin" by MIKADO publishers. I know that wheel (with a very worn sign) only from that book. I have never see it elsewhere.

Regards

Markus
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Offline kweekalot  
#7 Posted : 28 May 2018 20:46:39(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,293
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post


7: 13/11/2016 - Speelgoed Museum?, Belgium -
** The museum emailed me back to say they do not have one, and my attempt to contact the person who posted the reference photo (oudetrucksenmeer) has been unsuccessful so far. See note at end.


@Steve, are you sure about Belgium ?
The photo says 'speelgoedmuseum Trier' and Trier is in Germany. (Spielzeugmuseum / Toymuseum Trier).
'Oudetrucksenmeer.nl' is a Dutch website, meaning old trucks and more.
Offline cookee_nz  
#8 Posted : 28 May 2018 22:29:10(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post


7: 13/11/2016 - Speelgoed Museum?, Belgium -
** The museum emailed me back to say they do not have one, and my attempt to contact the person who posted the reference photo (oudetrucksenmeer) has been unsuccessful so far. See note at end.


@Steve, are you sure about Belgium ?
The photo says 'speelgoedmuseum Trier' and Trier is in Germany. (Spielzeugmuseum / Toymuseum Trier).
'Oudetrucksenmeer.nl' is a Dutch website, meaning old trucks and more.


Hi Marco, that is one of the reason for starting this topic. I have been given and found all sorts of information in the last few months and some of it is absolutely uncertain and unverified.

I'll have to go back through my notes to find why I have linked Speelgoed with Belgium so your feedback is really welcome.

I have only that single image to go on so until someone with first-hand knowledge (a local or visitor who has been there) can update me I make it very clear that this is not a definitive listing by any means, but at least it's a start ThumpUp

Bear in mind also, that I'm doing this from thousands of km's away and I have the further disadvantage of no European language abilities and an approach that may be considered friendly and casual in English, may be misconstrued as abrupt or even rude to others where no offence was intended so it's a bit of a balancing act as well. Who to ask, and perhaps more importantly, 'How' to ask Smile

So if you, or anyone else can unravel this it would be very much appreciated.

Cookee
Wellington
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Offline kweekalot  
#9 Posted : 28 May 2018 23:13:08(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,293
Location: Holland
@Steve,

Dietmar posted more than 100 photo's of his visit to the toymuseum in Trier on FAM, spread over 5 different threads, but unfortunately no photo of the Wunderrad.

So most likely the Trier museum don't own one.
If you want I can ask the museum.
Offline cookee_nz  
#10 Posted : 29 May 2018 07:22:18(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
@Steve,

Dietmar posted more than 100 photo's of his visit to the toymuseum in Trier on FAM, spread over 5 different threads, but unfortunately no photo of the Wunderrad.

So most likely the Trier museum don't own one.
If you want I can ask the museum.


If you would, that would be great, thanks heaps.

This is what I am hoping for, members who may live near some of the museums mentioned and able to confirm yes or no, and glean whatever information they can from the owner/curator/archivist etc.

by the way Marco, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! Laugh Laugh
Cookee
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Offline cookee_nz  
#11 Posted : 29 May 2018 10:42:03(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

The wheel which was used in the Märklin Museum and also at other exhibitions (Tübingen, Lindau) is the one now owned by Frank Ronneburg. The wheels at Darmstadt (train Museum) and at Tübingen are no originals. These are reproductions as far as I know.

There is one other shown in the book "125 Jahre Märklin" by MIKADO publishers. I know that wheel (with a very worn sign) only from that book. I have never see it elsewhere.

Regards

Markus


Hi Markus, that's interesting. All the images or videos I have of Frank's wheel (at the Unimog Gaggenau) show the wheel as a stand-alone display, whereas the images for the one shown at the Märklin Museum have the wheel in a large orange coin-operated cabinet - if we are talking abut the same one?

I realise that some of those references are now a few years old which is why I hope to confirm if there are any duplicates of the same item under more than one name.

Smile
Cookee
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Offline Markus Schild  
#12 Posted : 29 May 2018 10:55:39(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Steve,

The wheel in Gaggenau is another one. That one comes from a toy-shop in Wolfsburg (VW-town). I found it ~ 2005 and sold it in 2008 to a Lothar K., a member of the Gaggenau community who restored it perfectly. When I sold it, it was in a really bad condition. It missed the lamp on the top, all bulbs, all signs. Lothar K., who passed away some years ago, was a really artist. Even knowing what's replicated I had to look twice. It is now owned by another member of the Gaggenau community.


Regards

Markus
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Offline cookee_nz  
#13 Posted : 29 May 2018 11:15:06(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi Steve,

The wheel in Gaggenau is another one. That one comes from a toy-shop in Wolfsburg (VW-town). I found it ~ 2005 and sold it in 2008 to a Lothar K., a member of the Gaggenau community who restored it perfectly. When I sold it, it was in a really bad condition. It missed the lamp on the top, all bulbs, all signs. Lothar K., who passed away some years ago, was a really artist. Even knowing what's replicated I had to look twice. It is now owned by another member of the Gaggenau community.


Regards

Markus


The reason I made that connection was from the videos on YouTube under User "Tischbahner" which I had understood to be Frank's Youtube account?

I now have a few updates and corrections to make to my listing. ThumpUp
Cookee
Wellington
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Offline cookee_nz  
#14 Posted : 02 June 2018 04:44:16(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
For those interested in this topic, I have updated the listing of other examples known to exist. Two have been merged into one now that I know they are the same wheel, and the one that I had incorrectly noted as being in Belgium is infact apparently in the Spielzeug Museum in Trier, not too far it seems from the border with Luxembourg. That enabled me to do a further search which turned up an online copy of "Le Signal" newsletter with a full page write-up about it.

I enlisted the help of Marco and we are agreed that this appears be on permanent loan to the museum from a Luxembourg family who have owned it for decades.

Below is the page referred to, and here the link for the full pdf for download (the article is on page 34).

In the article it refers that the wheel is affectionately known as "Fouerrad". I was unable to find a direct translation for this word, but I presume it is Luxembourgish for "Ferris Wheel".

Interestingly, this article repeats the suggestion that the top and bottom covers of the rotating lighted motif are from the WWII landmine production. If anyone can add any comments relating to the article or knows anything further about this one, please do BigGrin ThumpUp

And there appears to be a new USA addition to the list which I am just waiting for confirmation of.

Apparently Talbot's Toyland in San Mateo, California have one but it is not always on display. Once I get confirmation and hopefully some photos I can include it.

LeSignal-201609p34.jpg

Edited by user 02 June 2018 13:52:02(UTC)  | Reason: Edits.

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#15 Posted : 02 June 2018 12:24:54(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,481
Location: New Zealand
Should I be expecting an article for this month's magazine??
Offline cookee_nz  
#16 Posted : 02 June 2018 13:48:22(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Should I be expecting an article for this month's magazine??


Funny you should ask, I was just thinking about that not 15 minutes ago.

What's the deadline date?

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#17 Posted : 02 June 2018 15:53:57(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,481
Location: New Zealand
13 June.

Ian did say to me that it would be good to print something this month given the level of interest shown on clubnight.
Offline Unholz  
#18 Posted : 23 June 2018 15:57:54(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,223
Location: Switzerland
Well, I just got back from visiting the Swiss vintage model train layout and exhibition at Lichtensteig ( https://www.erlebniswelttoggenburg.ch/ ). I am happy to report that the Märklin Wunderrad is still proudly displayed there in full working order, and it is activated by a motion-sensitive switch reacting to visitors.

Nearby is a second and possibly unique Märklin display object from the year 1926 which they call a paternoster lift combined with a swing carousel. The description says that it might be the only unit preserved in full working order and with the original packaging crate (see the German description in the last picture).

Enjoy! ThumpUp

Marklin Wunderrad
Märklin Wunderrad
Carousel
Description of Carousel
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Offline Markus Schild  
#19 Posted : 23 June 2018 19:17:51(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Thank you Stefan.

I know only one other examples of the "Ballturm" (ball tower), but that one is a later, coloured model. And it does not have a box. It is in a private collection.

From the catalogue M385 (1932):

M780.jpg

Regards

Markus
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Offline Webmaster  
#20 Posted : 23 June 2018 22:04:41(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,043
Some time within the next few weeks, I will go to the Eslöv Toy Museum one and take some pics...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline cookee_nz  
#21 Posted : 24 June 2018 12:14:38(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Well, I just got back from visiting the Swiss vintage model train layout and exhibition at Lichtensteig ( https://www.erlebniswelttoggenburg.ch/ ). I am happy to report that the Märklin Wunderrad is still proudly displayed there in full working order, and it is activated by a motion-sensitive switch reacting to visitors.

Nearby is a second and possibly unique Märklin display object from the year 1926 which they call a paternoster lift combined with a swing carousel. The description says that it might be the only unit preserved in full working order and with the original packaging crate (see the German description in the last picture).

Enjoy! ThumpUp



Thanks for that Stefan, much appreciated. Did you by any chance happen to get a photo of the white sign lying down in the front left corner?

it appears to have fallen over and the only image I have of it is quite small - it appears to state that the wheel was offered to selected toy shops in the 1950's and this particular one has been on loan from "Regula Siefert" of Frauenfeld since 2009, (if I read it correct). ??

The Ballturm was a nice additional photo as well which Markus has added some info about. I have not found the Bridge in between, my earliest sales model brochure is 1931 but of course it may be a custom-built model and not a factory sales model.

erlebniswelt-23 - Copy.jpg

Cookee
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Offline Unholz  
#22 Posted : 24 June 2018 20:37:17(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,223
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for that Stefan, much appreciated. Did you by any chance happen to get a photo of the white sign lying down in the front left corner?


Hi Cookee, yes it has indeed fallen over, and your translation is fine. Here is a legible picture of it:
White sign

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Offline Markus Schild  
#23 Posted : 25 June 2018 22:17:00(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

It took some time to find back a photo of the other example I know. It is restored, it was rescued from a scrapyard.

turm.jpg

Regards

Markus
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Offline cookee_nz  
#24 Posted : 26 June 2018 07:50:15(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

It took some time to find back a photo of the other example I know. It is restored, it was rescued from a scrapyard.

Regards

Markus



Honestly, the things people throw away !!! not even thinking about the potential value, it seems there's no appreciation of the unique nature of such things.

I guess one man's junk and all that....
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Offline Nigel Packer  
#25 Posted : 31 July 2018 12:30:23(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 590
Location: Cheshire, UK
There's one here for sale:

Ball tower


Condition looks quite good!

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline cookee_nz  
#26 Posted : 01 August 2018 00:36:53(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
There's one here for sale:

Ball tower


Condition looks quite good!

Nigel


Thanks Nigel, I spotted this last week and bookmarked it for review, you prompted me to grab the images while I can.

Wonderful item and something very captivating about them

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#27 Posted : 01 August 2018 02:00:51(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,600
Is it a coincidence that one has just come up for auction?

https://www.the-saleroom...2-4d6a-8ec2-a92c009a8a71

Paul
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Offline cookee_nz  
#28 Posted : 01 August 2018 12:10:59(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: CCS800KrokHunter3 Go to Quoted Post
Is it a coincidence that one has just come up for auction?

https://www.the-saleroom...2-4d6a-8ec2-a92c009a8a71

Paul


Yes it's the same one as Nigel mentioned above, these items appear not to come up very often but of course a lot of enthusiasts wouldn't even know they existed unless they happened to read about them.

I am doing my bit to raise the awareness and prominence BigGrin

From the 1931 catalogue "Märklin Modelle für Ausstellungszwecke, Schaufensterauslagen usw."...

Model M 780 F

1.3 meters high!! About the same height as the WonderWheel, but not as wide.


M-780-F-Ballturm-1931.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#29 Posted : 01 August 2018 12:59:47(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,600
I apologize for the duplicate, somehow I missed Nigel's post....

thanks for sharing the images, quite a fantastic piece!!

Paul
Offline kiwiAlan  
#30 Posted : 01 August 2018 20:17:05(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,400
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: CCS800KrokHunter3 Go to Quoted Post
I apologize for the duplicate, somehow I missed Nigel's post....

thanks for sharing the images, quite a fantastic piece!!

Paul


Hang on, its an auction house, with two sales rooms in different countries, so the sale price could be considerably more than that ... Scared Scared Scared

Offline cookee_nz  
#31 Posted : 02 August 2018 07:01:36(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CCS800KrokHunter3 Go to Quoted Post
I apologize for the duplicate, somehow I missed Nigel's post....

thanks for sharing the images, quite a fantastic piece!!

Paul


Hang on, its an auction house, with two sales rooms in different countries, so the sale price could be considerably more than that ... Scared Scared Scared



Hey Alan, are you sure that's correct? Seems to me one is the actual auction house selling it (mehlis) whereas the other one (thesaleroom) appears to be more of an auction finder, which redirects to the original site.

Similar to "liveauctioneers".

Cheers

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline steventrain  
#32 Posted : 02 August 2018 09:44:02(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,846
Originally Posted by: CCS800KrokHunter3 Go to Quoted Post
Is it a coincidence that one has just come up for auction?

https://www.the-saleroom...2-4d6a-8ec2-a92c009a8a71

Paul



Auction fee 3.00 % additional premium on the net hammer price + 19% VAT and 20% buyers premium + 19% VAT
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#33 Posted : 02 August 2018 14:26:16(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,400
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CCS800KrokHunter3 Go to Quoted Post
I apologize for the duplicate, somehow I missed Nigel's post....

thanks for sharing the images, quite a fantastic piece!!

Paul


Hang on, its an auction house, with two sales rooms in different countries, so the sale price could be considerably more than that ... Scared Scared Scared



Hey Alan, are you sure that's correct? Seems to me one is the actual auction house selling it (mehlis) whereas the other one (thesaleroom) appears to be more of an auction finder, which redirects to the original site.

Similar to "liveauctioneers".

Cheers

Cookee


Could well be, i didn't double check the second one carefully.
Offline Markus Schild  
#34 Posted : 01 September 2018 11:40:45(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
There's one here for sale:

Ball tower


Condition looks quite good!

Nigel


Hi,

It reached 3960 EUR incl buyers premium and VAT.

The tower was restored with many to new parts. The price reached is far above my estimation. No, I'm not the buyer

Regards

Markus
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Offline Nigel Packer  
#35 Posted : 01 September 2018 23:47:43(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 590
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post


Hi,

It reached 3960 EUR incl buyers premium and VAT.

The tower was restored with many to new parts. The price reached is far above my estimation. No, I'm not the buyer

Regards

Markus



Nor was I!

That’s quite a high price. Very rare, though, so if someone wants it, he just has to keep on bidding!

Best wishes,

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
Offline xxup  
#36 Posted : 02 September 2018 01:02:29(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,062
Location: Australia
If I could have been confident that it would have arrived down here in one piece, I would have paid much more for it. So I think that the successful bidder got a good deal.
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline Pmare4  
#37 Posted : 02 September 2018 04:22:14(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 224
Location: Queensland, Brisbane
Hi all,

I think I've found another one - scroll down until about halfway along the page.

https://www.tapatalk.com...lin-4161-t90111-s10.html

I wonder who has it now???

Best regards
Peter
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline cookee_nz  
#38 Posted : 06 September 2018 07:08:53(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Pmare4 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I think I've found another one - scroll down until about halfway along the page.

https://www.tapatalk.com...lin-4161-t90111-s10.html

I wonder who has it now???

Best regards
Peter


Hi Peter,

Nope not a new one, this is in fact the one I have.

Cheers

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#39 Posted : 24 February 2019 04:47:32(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
I reported this Wonderwheel / Wunderrad listing a couple of weeks back, seems it has actually sold for Euro 4,500

https://www.ebay.de/itm/...cl-Versand-/362557552699

That seems to be on a par with other examples that have sold in the past. It actually sold for more than I expected it might.

There's still the second one, in more original condition, sitting at Euro 4,850 Buy it Now.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/254136677256

This one has been relisted, the previous listing was pulled for a "listing error" (which is often a euphemism for 'sold outside of eBay') but I was pleased to see it relisted.

The seller admits to knowing nothing about it, he acquired it along with an ST800 which is what he mainly wanted.

Not everyone's cup of tea I know, but once you've seen one, they seem to get under your skin.....
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline kamstutz  
#40 Posted : 26 February 2019 15:00:19(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 174
Location: Orlando, FL
Saw some pictures from the Train/Toy show this past weekend in Gaggenau, Germany. Beautiful vintage layouts and one interesting item for this thread. Not sure if it is a permanent fixture or brought in for the show, but here's another Wonderwheel for the list.

MarklinWonderwheel.jpg

Kurt
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Offline Markus Schild  
#41 Posted : 26 February 2019 15:21:58(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Kurt,

That wheel is known, but not on the list. I don't know why. I bought it ~2000 at WOLFSBURG, Germany where it came from a toy-store in bad condition and sold it to a collector from the GAGGENAU team in 2007 who restored it perfectly. Did you even think that the sign is a replica? He had really done a good job. Unfortunately the restorer passed away in 2010.

Regards

Markus
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Offline Elsleuth1  
#42 Posted : 26 February 2019 16:19:00(UTC)
Elsleuth1

United States   
Joined: 23/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 98
"BKM 7 built from Märklin Metall to display H0 in a rather novel way with just the Loco (CM 800 / 3000) and pulling three wagons actually driving a large 10kg Ferris wheel."

Is there a photo of what this looks like? Never mind the listing on eBay answered my question.
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Offline kamstutz  
#43 Posted : 26 February 2019 17:39:57(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 174
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Did you even think that the sign is a replica? He had really done a good job.

Marcus - Comparing the sign on this one with others I would never have known it was a replica. Very authentic. Thanks for the backstory (owner lineage). I'm sure that it looks very different from the one you rescued nearly 20 years ago. Hopefully it will continue to be preserved for future generations.

Kurt
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Offline Markus Schild  
#44 Posted : 26 February 2019 20:02:09(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Kurt,

Now I found back some pictures how it looked like when I found it. I sold it, because I knew that the buyer would make a miracle happen.

IMG_0921 (Large).JPG

IMG_0922 (Large).JPG

IMG_0932 (Large).JPG

IMG_0937 (Large).JPG
Regards

Markus
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Offline cookee_nz  
#45 Posted : 26 February 2019 21:15:47(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi Kurt,

That wheel is known, but not on the list. I don't know why. I bought it ~2000 at WOLFSBURG, Germany where it came from a toy-store in bad condition and sold it to a collector from the GAGGENAU team in 2007 who restored it perfectly. Did you even think that the sign is a replica? He had really done a good job. Unfortunately the restorer passed away in 2010.

Regards

Markus


Hi Markus, are you referring to my list compiled last year? - https://www.marklin-users.net/cookee_nz/gbmc/bkm/Wunderrad201805.htm

I'm not sure why it is not noted as such, there are many links on other forums and youtube clips to the previous Gaggenau displays and I suspect it may have got 'lost' among the others, or (more likely) I was waiting to confirm who actually owns it.

I'll have a closer look through my records and see if I can got it wrongly recorded against someone else or missed altogether.

Either way, I certainly know about it and will try to clarify.

Are you able to share who the owner is? (privately is fine, I won't reveal any personal details if they wish to remain anonymous).

Cheers

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Markus Schild  
#46 Posted : 26 February 2019 21:25:44(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Cookee,

I don't know who owns it now. I sold it to Lothar K. who passed away ~2010. I only know that one of his friend from the founders of the Gaggenau happening bought it.

Regards

Markus
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Offline cookee_nz  
#47 Posted : 27 February 2019 11:00:16(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,547
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi Kurt,

Now I found back some pictures how it looked like when I found it. I sold it, because I knew that the buyer would make a miracle happen.

(snip)

Regards

Markus


That's more or less the same condition mine was in when I got it but mine was more dirty and covered with a thin film of oil from years of lubrication.

Once I cleaned it there was a great improvement but some parts still had rust. I decided to leave them as they are, my goal being 'preservation' rather than 'restoration'.

By the way, I had the pleasure last week to meet the previous owner (David Fifield) of my Wonderwheel in Christchurch. The person I purchased mine from (Justin) appears to have spun me a very confused tale about it coming from his German Uncle etc and wasted a lot of my time trying to make sense of the history of it.

David was able to give me photos proving his ownership of the Wheel from the mid 80's until about 5 years ago when it was purchased by an NZ collector (based in Australia) who then found it was too expensive to ship to Australia so it was resold in Auckland.

David himself purchased it from a former Toystore owner (Doug Lee) in Christchurch who owned two stores in the city.

I have not been able to confirm when or how Doug Lee obtained them but it's quite possible it was obtained via the NZ/Australian importer (either Email Industries or HW Clark Ltd) but that's just an educated guess.

I'm unlikely ever to confirm those details but that fact it's been in NZ since at least the 1970's and probably earlier is excellent for it's provenance.

I found researching the history of it plus the work I needed to do on it to be just as fascinating and enjoyable as the item itself. Everyone who has seen it has been quite captivated and it's a real joy to be able to demonstrate it.

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#48 Posted : 27 February 2019 11:26:55(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,481
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
.....it's quite possible it was obtained via the NZ/Australian importer (either Email Industries or HW Clark Ltd) but that's just an educated guess.

I'm unlikely ever to confirm those details but that fact it's been in NZ since at least the 1970's and probably earlier is excellent for it's provenance.


My cousin is a former employee of Email Industries / HW Clarke, she would have been there at that time. My cousin got me my Marklin 3122 starter set plus transformer for me at staff rates in 1971. Whether she would remember something of a Wonderwheel I don't know, but I could ask.

Edited by user 01 March 2019 09:41:27(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline kamstutz  
#49 Posted : 27 February 2019 16:04:33(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 174
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post

... because I knew that the buyer would make a miracle happen.

Markus - Thanks for sharing these "before restoration" photos of the Wunderwheel currently in Gaggenau. The restoration was even better than I imagined after now having seen what it originally looked like and really demonstrates the love and attention to detail that the restorer put into the rescue effort. I have great admiration for those that preserve toys of the past.
Kurt
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Offline nzr1  
#50 Posted : 19 March 2019 03:27:03(UTC)
nzr1


Joined: 05/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: usa
I did see one at the USA National Toy Train Museum in Strasburg PA when I was last there a few years ago.
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