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Offline Harvey  
#1 Posted : 14 March 2019 15:16:43(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 500
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Hi

I want to set up my passenger station with lights that turn on/off as the train enters/leaves the station. I have accomplished this for the situation of a 1 track/single train. My question is how to do this for a shared platform, where the eastbound train is on track 1 and west bound on track 2. The complexity (at least what I see now) is how to have the light on when the east bound train enters (turn light on) but the west bound train leaves and turns the light off, while the east bound train is still in the station (not what I want).

For my shuttle route, I use a circuit track to turn lights on/off. For my single platform (trains going in 1 direction only) I will use reed switches. Not sure how to do this for trains going in opposite directions (on separate tracks) where the sequence of entry and exit is random

My equipment is CS2, L88/S88, M84 and K83.

If this is to complex or requires a computer connection I will just leave the lights on (as that is my major station)

Thanks
Harvey
Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 14 March 2019 15:58:34(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,935
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post


I want to set up my passenger station with lights that turn on/off as the train enters/leaves the station.


I ask why? This is not haw station lights work. The lights are for people standing on the platform not for trains to see where they are going.
Dale
Arrival and Departure signs: http://remotesign.mixmox.com
My first layout: http://layout.mixmox.com
My current layout (under construction): http://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Offline Harvey  
#3 Posted : 14 March 2019 17:03:24(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 500
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Dale

Fair question - Just to see things happen and see if it can be done.

Harvey
Offline TEEWolf  
#4 Posted : 14 March 2019 19:57:49(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,554
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post
Hi

I want to set up my passenger station with lights that turn on/off as the train enters/leaves the station. I have accomplished this for the situation of a 1 track/single train. My question is how to do this for a shared platform, where the eastbound train is on track 1 and west bound on track 2. The complexity (at least what I see now) is how to have the light on when the east bound train enters (turn light on) but the west bound train leaves and turns the light off, while the east bound train is still in the station (not what I want).

For my shuttle route, I use a circuit track to turn lights on/off. For my single platform (trains going in 1 direction only) I will use reed switches. Not sure how to do this for trains going in opposite directions (on separate tracks) where the sequence of entry and exit is random

My equipment is CS2, L88/S88, M84 and K83.

If this is to complex or requires a computer connection I will just leave the lights on (as that is my major station)

Thanks
Harvey


You want your station lighted, when a train is standing in the station, otherwise the light shall be switched off? Doesn't matter from which side and on which track a train enters your station? Did ein understand your question correctly? Is your station laying in a one track routing or does it has a double track one or even more tracks? I think this is important for choosing the sensor for a light switch.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Harvey  
#5 Posted : 14 March 2019 21:37:34(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 500
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
station lights.jpg


Hopefully this picture makes clearer what I am asking. I want the lights on whenever a train approaches the station but to turned off when it leaves. Given the random arrival and departure of trains from each direction, I think this can not be done with the materials I have. But want to be sure. I am not expert with the M84 and other decoders.

Harvey
Offline TEEWolf  
#6 Posted : 14 March 2019 22:45:59(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,554
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post
station lights.jpg


Hopefully this picture makes clearer what I am asking. I want the lights on whenever a train approaches the station but to turned off when it leaves. Given the random arrival and departure of trains from each direction, I think this can not be done with the materials I have. But want to be sure. I am not expert with the M84 and other decoders.

Harvey


All right and on both ends is one turnout bringing both tracks together to one line in each direction? Then you take 2 contac tracks with this little moving knob inside, each located before the turnout. This is moving in both directions. Every train has to go over the contct track. Then you think your station lights are like a signal. But in the form train arrives lights on, train leaves the station lights off. The train in the opposite direction arrives, nothing happens, because the light are already burning. Then I would use reed conctacts as long as a train is still standing in the station an outgoing train does not shut off the lights after leaving the station. Do you have signals in your station? If yes, than you may combine the light switching with the switching of your station signals.

Do you have a CS 3? If yes, it could be possible to programm this event with the new macro functions in the CS 3. Of course there are more possibilities like try to toggle your lights like like you get a feedback from a shadow yard if a track is occupied or not. But for these more details are needed.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#7 Posted : 14 March 2019 23:57:24(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 29
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
In analog, I would use two universal switches for the job, one for each platform. A pair of circuit tracks turns the switches on and off. The outputs are connected in parallel to the lights. In digital, I suppose the same approach would work by connecting the M84 outputs in parallel to the lights.
- Martti M.
Offline Purellum  
#8 Posted : 15 March 2019 00:58:00(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,990
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post
In analog, I would use two universal switches for the job, one for each platform. A pair of circuit tracks turns the switches on and off. The outputs are connected in parallel to the lights.


Why two ??

If there's no other feedback taken from the tracks in the station area, you could just couple the wires from the circuit tracks together ( parallel )
and have the same feedback from both tracks going to the same relay.

Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post
In digital, I suppose the same approach would work by connecting the M84 outputs in parallel to the lights.


As above.

Per.

Cool

P.S:

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Do you have a CS 3?


Reading all of the original question before you answer would be a good idea:

Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post
My equipment is CS2, L88/S88, M84 and K83.


LOL
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline clapcott  
#9 Posted : 15 March 2019 01:05:41(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,204
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post
I want to set up my passenger station with lights that turn on/off as the train enters/leaves the station.
I ask why? This is not haw station lights work. The lights are for people standing on the platform not for trains to see where they are going.

There are prototypical examples of this.

While there may be a "waiting" or "security" light on all the time, extra lights turn on as the train approaches to add visibility to passengers both boarding and alighting.

In some cases it DOES also aid the train (Loco driver) to ensure the area is clear.

Peter
Offline clapcott  
#10 Posted : 15 March 2019 01:06:51(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,204
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Concur with "2 switches in parallel" idea.

If your m84 is in 8 port mode you only need one pair.

In this case the 3R (port 5) might be turned on/off by your southbound train and the 3G (port 6) by the northbound train.
As long as one of the two is on, the platform lighting will illuminate

UserPostedImage
Peter
Offline Harvey  
#11 Posted : 15 March 2019 12:43:43(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 500
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
All, thanks for the suggestions.

In the following I will describe what I understand from Peter's suggestion and drawing of the M84. While I will not be building this station for a few weeks (awaiting some supplies) I will try to build a test this weekend.


My understanding of the diagram is that the power supply feeds power to the middle socket (3) on the M84 and when any sensor indicates 'closed' (close circuit so current flows) the lamp will be on. Thinking of this as a logic exercise, the light would be off only if both sets of sensors indicate 'open'. If S1 or S4 is the most recent activated sensor the light would be on (circuit 'closed'). That is what I understand.

Aside, I don't understand the comment 'If your m84 is in 8 port mode you only need one pair.' I only used the side with the green and red dots, not the side with screws 1-8. Not sure what 8 port mode is or what one pair refers to.

While the above logic is clear, I don't see how the various parts accomplish this. Hopefully my diagram will help explain my questions

Sensor 1 (S1) will instruct the S88 to send the command through the CS2 to turn the light on.The M84 will close the circuit (on the green and red side? or just 1 side) If the circuit is closed on only 1 side, say green, what determines this side and what activates the other side? Similarly, when the train passes S3, the instruction is to open the circuit, but on which side R or G or both. I have looked at the keyboard address and set to new multidecoder and K84. Not sure if anything else needs to be activated to set up the above logic

Light diagram.jpg

Regards
Harvey
Offline clapcott  
#12 Posted : 16 March 2019 09:08:57(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,204
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Given : m84 set to 8 port mode
and : base address set to 1
Then : m84:3R = address 5 , m84:3G = address 6

Memory/Event
- S1 ... Add 5 -> G
- S3 ... Add 5 -> R

- S4 ... Add 6 -> G
- S2 ... Add 6 -> R
Peter
Offline Harvey  
#13 Posted : 17 March 2019 01:13:51(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 500
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Peter

I very much appreciate your assistance. Not having an electrical background I don't follow the M84 instruction manual and so I am slowly piecing items together, not always correctly. I didn't understand the instruction , in 8 port mode. However, I now think that some wires are to be connected to the ports on the back side of the M84 - numbered 1-8 but where from. My understanding is that each sensor will send a signal to the S88 *address 1-4), the S88 will instruct the CS2 to instruct the M84 to change a setting.

For example, when S4 is activated, the S88 contact 4 is activated. The S88 instructs the M84 to turn on the light. This is accomplished by sending a pulse to the M84 connection 6 and (the front of the M84) changing from R to G.

I have not tested this (afraid to burn something out if I am wrong). Appreciate your looking at my wiring diagram.

Updated wiring .jpg

Thanks
Harvey
Offline clapcott  
#14 Posted : 17 March 2019 09:31:25(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,204
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
NO , do not use the separate (1-8,T) inputs.

The expectation was that the S1-S4 sensors would all connect to the S88 only.
You then use the CS2 memory function to program up the 4 routes, designating the trigger as being the S1-S4 respectively as outlined.

Re: 8 port mode...
If you have a black m84 (60842) you may set the unit to 8 port mode with 8 discrete addresses.
this means that EACH port uses its own Green(on) and Red)(off) to specifically turn an individual port on and off.

If you have a white m84 (60841) it is possible to operate in 8 port mode HOWEVER this is implemented differently and not what I am suggesting.
In this case you would need to make use of 2 separate "pairs" to perform the similar function (e.g 1G instead of 3R and 2G instead of 3G)

To set a 60842 to 8 port mode is a (cv) configuration process
- if you have discovered the unit as an mFX device you may use the (slightly more english readable) configuration panel to change the "Mode Preset" option to "8 Switchs = 8 addresses" instead of the default (default)
- if you are using CV programming, you need to write a value of "2" to CV 79
Peter
Offline Harvey  
#15 Posted : 17 March 2019 17:12:30(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 500
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Peter

My education is continuing. I had read pages 16-18 of the m84 manual previously and thought - doesn't apply to me and I don't understand. But now I see, given your explanation, it does. I do have the black M84 and so I have tried to program CV 79. I set all dip switches to off, the off on switch is pushed to off, attached the M84 to the programming track (light blinks and so good),went to CS2/wrench/track (per instruction on page 18 and don't see any check mark). Even if I did, not sure that is where I have access to CVs. That is my next question - how do I get to the CV assignment screen. Another question is if I can set the CV 79 to 2 for one M84, is any other M84 or K84 impacted?

Specifics of my hardware and software
CS2 60214 4.2.1(0)
Booster 60175
60065 Power pack - powers my auxiliary loop wire for lights, signals and turnouts

Regards
Harvey
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