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Offline W3Machinist  
#1 Posted : 07 February 2019 06:02:22(UTC)
W3Machinist

United States   
Joined: 19/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: North Carolina, Locust
what do I have.jpgwhat do I have 2.jpgwhat do I have 3.jpgwhat do I have 5.jpgwhat do I have 4.jpg

I am not sure what someone was trying to do with this loco, but I suspect they were converting it to DC. It has a permanent magnet and 3 post armature.
The solder joints look poor. It appears the wheels have been removed as one side is out of time and with the drive rods on it will not rotate. The shoe/slider was gone when I received it. Not all wheels look like they belong. See the wheel on the drive rod side with an unused mounting hole. None on the other side. hole

Anyone recognize these drive items? How to I get things back in time?

Since this is a mess I lean toward a complete upgrade 5 pole motor and decoder, tear down to frame and reassemble. As this would be my first try at upgrading i risk little.

All input from the more experienced and knowledgeable will be greatly appreciated.

WoodyHuh Confused Sad
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Offline cookee_nz  
#2 Posted : 07 February 2019 08:12:31(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,016
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: W3Machinist Go to Quoted Post


I am not sure what someone was trying to do with this loco, but I suspect they were converting it to DC. It has a permanent magnet and 3 post armature.
The solder joints look poor. It appears the wheels have been removed as one side is out of time and with the drive rods on it will not rotate. The shoe/slider was gone when I received it. Not all wheels look like they belong. See the wheel on the drive rod side with an unused mounting hole. None on the other side. hole

Anyone recognize these drive items? How to I get things back in time?

Since this is a mess I lean toward a complete upgrade 5 pole motor and decoder, tear down to frame and reassemble. As this would be my first try at upgrading i risk little.

All input from the more experienced and knowledgeable will be greatly appreciated.

WoodyHuh Confused Sad


Woah, yes it is a bit of a mess sadly. But still quite a popular Loco, I have a couple myself, it's most likely 3001 or CE 800.

The wheels are out of 'quarter', although not quite a serious on this as on a Steam Loco but you still want to get it right.

As an initial step you'll probably find you can turn the wheels on the axles, but establish which ones are closest to correct and leave them be.

Only the end wheels have screws, the coupling rods have 'dummy' pressings.

Looks to me like the usual reverse unit has been replaced with a rectifier.

Check first the gears for excessive play or very sharp teeth, and also the bushings the wheel axles go through. If the gears or bushings are worn, it's really a full rebuild and frankly, you'd probably find a better example for less than the cost of the parts and time.

I see it looks like the traction tyres are early plastic ones rather than the later rubber style - sometimes they are ok but any slippage will require those to be removed and replaced, and of course there's still the missing pickup shoe.

How's the paintwork?, those are notorious for the paint flaking off and exposing the black plastic of the body, once the flaking starts, it tends to spread.

I see the appeal of dong a restoration, I have done it myself when I really should have walked away and the resulting cost is disproportionate to the value, but it will always be an 'old' loco so just keep that in mind.


Cheers
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 07 February 2019 12:47:26(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,498
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Woody, yes someone has replaced the original wheel with a wheel with a hole in it, I actually converted mine (4) to digital with sound decoder, Roco telex coupling and Led's and yes I drilled a hole into the side rod to fit another screw into it by adding a wheel with a hole., besides this everything is possible.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline W3Machinist  
#4 Posted : 07 February 2019 14:47:10(UTC)
W3Machinist

United States   
Joined: 19/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: North Carolina, Locust
Thank you gentlemen for your information, one more question which digital conversion set should I use. I am thinking seriously about putting this unit right if for no other reason than to develop my knowledge, as I don't think I can do any more damage! How do you quarter the axles(time)? Is there a tool? I have found a tool to remove the tires. How do you reinstall the tires to the axle, Is there a tool for this?

The paint looks good, but I will check it more closely. The wheels do need to be repainted.

Please keep the information coming I do appreciate it very much!

Woody
Offline Elsleuth1  
#5 Posted : 07 February 2019 18:13:38(UTC)
Elsleuth1

United States   
Joined: 23/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 74
Looks like a major job. Keep us posted on your progress. BigGrin
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Offline TEEWolf  
#6 Posted : 08 February 2019 23:13:30(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,783
Originally Posted by: W3Machinist Go to Quoted Post
Thank you gentlemen for your information, one more question which digital conversion set should I use. I am thinking seriously about putting this unit right if for no other reason than to develop my knowledge, as I don't think I can do any more damage! How do you quarter the axles(time)? Is there a tool? I have found a tool to remove the tires. How do you reinstall the tires to the axle, Is there a tool for this?

The paint looks good, but I will check it more closely. The wheels do need to be repainted.

Please keep the information coming I do appreciate it very much!

Woody


Hello Woody,

some links for the E 63. I got the little red one still in analogue.

https://www.lokmuseum.de...063&Seite=1&SID=

http://www.maerklin-samm...omotiven/03001/03001.htm

https://www.maerklin.de/...r.php?artikelnummer=3001

http://www.dermodellbahn...e63/lichterglanz-e63.htm

Unfortuantely text is always in german, but the pictures informative as well. Or use the translator

https://www.deepl.com/translator

Do you have the manual for the E 63?

At the webpage from "maerklin-sammler-infos.de" they recommend Maerklin #60943 for a digital coversion for the motor. As a decoder - of course - one of the magnificent new mSD/3 decoders (60977 is for E-locos).

Best Regards

TEEWolf


CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
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Offline DTaylor91  
#7 Posted : 09 February 2019 01:00:46(UTC)
DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 367
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Originally Posted by: W3Machinist Go to Quoted Post
Thank you gentlemen for your information, one more question which digital conversion set should I use. I am thinking seriously about putting this unit right if for no other reason than to develop my knowledge, as I don't think I can do any more damage! How do you quarter the axles(time)? Is there a tool? I have found a tool to remove the tires. How do you reinstall the tires to the axle, Is there a tool for this?

The paint looks good, but I will check it more closely. The wheels do need to be repainted.

Please keep the information coming I do appreciate it very much!

Woody


Woody,

Northwest Short Line makes a tool called "The Quarterer". I've never used one myself, but NWSL does make very high quality tools and parts for model locomotives. Not sure where Locust, NC is, but if it's not far from Spencer, NC, there's an amazing train store there that would probably have one in stock. They don't do Marklin, or other European stuff so much, but they do stock a ton of scratch building tools and materials.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#8 Posted : 09 February 2019 01:51:47(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,142
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: DTaylor91 Go to Quoted Post

Northwest Short Line makes a tool called "The Quarterer". I've never used one myself, but NWSL does make very high quality tools and parts for model locomotives. Not sure where Locust, NC is, but if it's not far from Spencer, NC, there's an amazing train store there that would probably have one in stock. They don't do Marklin, or other European stuff so much, but they do stock a ton of scratch building tools and materials.


I have re-quartered several older Märklin steamers basically by eye and it is really pretty easy. Line up the drivers on one side. Line up the drivers on the other side, but offset by 45 degrees. You do need to fix why the wheels slipped on the axles in the first place though. In mine I had to re-knurl the axles and press the wheels back on in the correct positions.

It is actually easier if they all just let go at once, as mine did. That way you can easily get things to line up again. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline W3Machinist  
#9 Posted : 09 February 2019 06:18:32(UTC)
W3Machinist

United States   
Joined: 19/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: North Carolina, Locust
Thank you gentlemen all for the information.

Teewolf I have several of the E 63's with no manual. I will be going through your listed links very carefully this week end. The one in the pictures is now TOTALLY striped down to the frame. Next comes clean up and waiting for parts.

Dtaylor91 Locust is about 20 Mi. east of Charlotte and about 1 hour south of Spencer, I shall try to get up there this coming week. All wheels and axles are way too loose so I an deciding best way to tighten them up.

Dickinsonj thank you for the how to information. I found a PE Design small machine shop on ebay that makes a wheel puller for HO. They are testing a quartering unit for HO, and I asked them about making a knurling punch for manual knurling of axles. We will see what develops.

More pictures this weekend.

Woody
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Offline W3Machinist  
#10 Posted : 09 February 2019 22:37:59(UTC)
W3Machinist

United States   
Joined: 19/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: North Carolina, Locust
Well here we go first step in rebuild, the complete tear down.

first step 1.jpgfirst step 3.jpgfirst step 2.jpgfirst step.jpg


Looking things over I have come to the conclusion, MARKLIN WE HAVE A PROBLEM!
Offline W3Machinist  
#11 Posted : 09 February 2019 22:55:21(UTC)
W3Machinist

United States   
Joined: 19/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: North Carolina, Locust
Someone has tried repairs on this unit. I have done repairs on large equipment like this but with tighter fit.

Has anyone seen this before?
Any repair suggestion for me!
Please list part #, and sources if known. Axles, Wheels, the Brass bushings in the frame, and anything else you can think of, that I should replace.

PROBLEM.jpgPROBLEM 1.jpgPROBLEM 2.jpgPROBLEM 4.jpg

I am planning on giving this little loco a fresh start.

WoodyOhMyGod RollEyes Sad
Offline DTaylor91  
#12 Posted : 10 February 2019 00:29:21(UTC)
DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 367
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Those look like plastic inserts. Was there ever a Hamo version of this locomotive?
Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 10 February 2019 00:37:06(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,498
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: DTaylor91 Go to Quoted Post
Those look like plastic inserts. Was there ever a Hamo version of this locomotive?


not to my knowledge it came as a kit form with the numbers 3900, 3901 and 3902., I think this is exactly who ever had the loco tried to do and succeeded by converting it to DC (Hamo), I don't know whether its worth it to repair it why not go on ebay and buy one in a much better condition and wit until the right price comes up., to repair this loco you need 3 new axles plus the flywheel.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline TEEWolf  
#14 Posted : 10 February 2019 02:04:37(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,783
Originally Posted by: W3Machinist Go to Quoted Post
Someone has tried repairs on this unit. I have done repairs on large equipment like this but with tighter fit.


Quote:
Has anyone seen this before?
Any repair suggestion for me!
Please list part #, and sources if known. Axles, Wheels, the Brass bushings in the frame, and anything else you can think of, that I should replace.


Confused http://www.maerklin-samm...omotiven/03001/03001.htm

lots of spare numbers at this webpage, even text is in German the spare parts number are readable.

Confused http://www.maerklin-samm...-%20Explo%20-%200258.pdf

explosion drawing with all article numbers of the E 63. These are links from my post #6.Huh

As a source write a mail to Märklin. They may tell you a dealer with these spare parts. As far as I remember during Märklin's insolvency the spar parts stock was sold and one dealer in Germany bought it. Sorry but I do not know thy buyer.

Here are more links where to get spare parts of Märklin products.

https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/...ts_cdrom/PDF/ET539H0.PDF

http://www.bahnhoefle.de...hogisg4lnlqt2vq6lg466tn6

https://modellbaustudio-.../H0/Zahnraeder/Maerklin/

https://ttn-shop.com/ers....php?spur=H0&lang=de

http://www.razis-modellb...in-ersatzteile_new1.html

and of course at ebay

https://www.ebay.de/b/Ma...-H0/180281/bn_7004704065

https://www.ebay.de/b/Ma...ur-H0/180281/bn_13145049

Hopefully it helps you, but you have to study all listings by yourself.BigGrin I do not know which parts are you looking for.

CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
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Offline W3Machinist  
#15 Posted : 10 February 2019 04:01:34(UTC)
W3Machinist

United States   
Joined: 19/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: North Carolina, Locust
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DTaylor91 Go to Quoted Post
Those look like plastic inserts. Was there ever a Hamo version of this locomotive?


not to my knowledge it came as a kit form with the numbers 3900, 3901 and 3902., I think this is exactly who ever had the loco tried to do and succeeded by converting it to DC (Hamo), I don't know whether its worth it to repair it why not go on ebay and buy one in a much better condition and wit until the right price comes up., to repair this loco you need 3 new axles plus the flywheel.


Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: W3Machinist Go to Quoted Post
Someone has tried repairs on this unit. I have done repairs on large equipment like this but with tighter fit.


Quote:
Has anyone seen this before?
Any repair suggestion for me!
Please list part #, and sources if known. Axles, Wheels, the Brass bushings in the frame, and anything else you can think of, that I should replace.


Confused http://www.maerklin-samm...omotiven/03001/03001.htm

lots of spare numbers at this webpage, even text is in German the spare parts number are readable.

Confused http://www.maerklin-samm...-%20Explo%20-%200258.pdf

explosion drawing with all article numbers of the E 63. These are links from my post #6.Huh

As a source write a mail to Märklin. They may tell you a dealer with these spare parts. As far as I remember during Märklin's insolvency the spar parts stock was sold and one dealer in Germany bought it. Sorry but I do not know thy buyer.



Here are more links where to get spare parts of Märklin products.

https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/...ts_cdrom/PDF/ET539H0.PDF

http://www.bahnhoefle.de...hogisg4lnlqt2vq6lg466tn6

https://modellbaustudio-.../H0/Zahnraeder/Maerklin/

https://ttn-shop.com/ers....php?spur=H0&lang=de

http://www.razis-modellb...in-ersatzteile_new1.html

and of course at ebay

https://www.ebay.de/b/Ma...-H0/180281/bn_7004704065

https://www.ebay.de/b/Ma...ur-H0/180281/bn_13145049

Hopefully it helps you, but you have to study all listings by yourself.BigGrin I do not know which parts are you looking for.




Thank you Teewolf I really appreciate all this information.
Unfortunately this is my first RODEO of this type.

Woody
Offline river6109  
#16 Posted : 10 February 2019 04:46:39(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,498
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
to fix them and possible convert them to digital there are many options:
1.) 5 pole highefficiency motor
2.) leave the 3 pole armature and get an ESU perm magnet.
3.) ball bearings
4.) dual led's (white & red)
5.) remove coupling hook and add Telex coupling (there has to be work to be done to add a short coupling mechanism to the loco
6.) ESU Sound
7.) drill hole into side rod and add wheel with thread hole
8.) add brake shoe assembly
10.) add a prototypical pantograph

or wait another 10 years for Märklin to produce a new model BigGrin

regards.,

John



here are some detailed photos with some of the improvements

DSC07419.JPG

DSC07418.JPG

DSC07416.JPG

DSC07417.JPG

DSC07415.JPG

DSC07413.JPG

DSC07414.JPG
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline W3Machinist  
#17 Posted : 10 February 2019 07:05:14(UTC)
W3Machinist

United States   
Joined: 19/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: North Carolina, Locust
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
to fix them and possible convert them to digital there are many options:
1.) 5 pole highefficiency motor
2.) leave the 3 pole armature and get an ESU perm magnet.
3.) ball bearings
4.) dual led's (white & red)
5.) remove coupling hook and add Telex coupling (there has to be work to be done to add a short coupling mechanism to the loco
6.) ESU Sound
7.) drill hole into side rod and add wheel with thread hole
8.) add brake shoe assembly
10.) add a prototypical pantograph

or wait another 10 years for Märklin to produce a new model BigGrin

regards.,

John



here are some detailed photos with some of the improvements

DSC07419.JPG

DSC07418.JPG

DSC07416.JPG

DSC07417.JPG

DSC07415.JPG

DSC07413.JPG

DSC07414.JPG



Wow John That youtube video of your layout is super!
I'm looking at doing item 1, 4, 5, 6 of your list and possibly 3. I would like to have a mini machine shop, but money is always the issue, it will take awhile.
Until then this will get me some practice towards being semi digital.

Very Best to you and yours,
Woody
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Offline river6109  
#18 Posted : 10 February 2019 08:32:16(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,498
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Woody, brake shoe assembly comes from a DB BR 191 with some modifications and you always can add a ball bearing to the motor shield or brush plate., its not that difficult

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline W3Machinist  
#19 Posted : 10 February 2019 15:43:08(UTC)
W3Machinist

United States   
Joined: 19/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: North Carolina, Locust
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Woody, brake shoe assembly comes from a DB BR 191 with some modifications and you always can add a ball bearing to the motor shield or brush plate., its not that difficult

John


I have read your motor cover conversion a week back and have ordered some 4 mm O.D. bearings to do mine, my question is in other areas. I am considering placing roller bearings at each axle load point, to remove wear and drag of the axle bushings. My search so far has not resulted in a sufficiently small bearing. From what I can measure there will be a small area of break out when I bore for the bearings. I'm hopping to find a 5 mm O.D. x 2.5 mm I.D. bearing, no joy yet.Unsure

Thank you again for the break shoe information, I will look into it. ThumpUp

I also think there should be a cab light that is always on when in operation.Cool

WoodyMellow
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