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Offline kimballthurlow  
#1 Posted : 02 January 2019 03:45:49(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi all,
Having recently visited my daughter who lives in Germany, I managed to travel on German railways for a few days here and there.

I was impressed by the intensity and timeliness of their operations.
Coming from Australia where the network of railways (outside of capital cities) is quite sparse, it really is quite fascinating.

I would like to purchase two modern German ELECTRIC locomotives modelled by Maerklin with sound.
I am asking thoose who live in Germany, or perhaps those who are familiar with the continental systems this one question.
Can you choose for me please, two locomotives (freight or passenger) representative of modern German operation?

I did notice many locos with lettering CARGO on the Rhine River freight route (the right bank??), and I guess these were Swiss trains given rights over the German system.
The whole scenario is a mystery to myself, and I suppose my guesses are not even correct.

Thanks in advance.

Kimball

Edited by user 20 January 2019 01:43:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 02 January 2019 08:43:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,377
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
I did notice many locos with lettering CARGO on the Rhine River freight route (the right bank??), and I guess these were Swiss trains given rights over the German system.
The whole scenario is a mystery to myself, and I suppose my guesses are not even correct.
SBB have all sorts of Cargo locomotives.
They even had some that could operate in Germany, but not in Switzerland.

One characteristic of era VI is that locos no longer have to be swapped at borders. A single loco can run from Switzerland to the north sea while others can run from Switzerland to Italy.

Iconic?
DB AG has hundreds of TRAXX locos. Märklin offer nice TRAXX locos with plastic body and sound.
There are only a few dozen locos of class 101, but they are iconic IMHO for express trains.
But I think ES 64 U2 and ES 64 F4 are as iconic as the 101, but for freight trains.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 02 January 2019 10:54:15(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,402
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
But I think ES 64 U2 and ES 64 F4.......


Those designations don't mean a lot, at least to me (ES = Eurosprinter??), but I presume you mean the BR182 Taurus and BR152 TRAXX locos?


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


You could probably add to that the Vectrons.....

UserPostedImage

(Marklin 36197 - 190 euro - has sound)



BR187 TRAXX loco

UserPostedImage

(Marklin 36630 - 198 euro - also with sound)
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#4 Posted : 02 January 2019 11:00:58(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Tom,
Thank you for those suggestions.
Yes I guessed that freight locos and trains are used cross continent, but could not say so for sure.

I did get a photo of a Dispolok ES64 U2 on a freight train (see Post #25 below).
It seemed to be quite a compact loco.
And I see Maerklin made an MFX sound ES64 U2 about 8 years ago. That sounds like a good choice for one.
I already have a 152 of which I saw quite a few, but mine has the DB Museum graphics (34352).

I also saw the 101 which you suggested, so I will check for that too.

regards
Kimball

Edited by user 03 January 2019 08:36:05(UTC)  | Reason: linked ot the photo of ES64

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#5 Posted : 02 January 2019 11:07:01(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi David,

Thanks for your suggestions too.
Well that has cleared up one thing for me..... the ES 64 series = the 182 series.

I also saw these 152 series (on car transport trains like in the photo you offered) and I am sure Maerklin does those.
36197 sounds like a candidate too.

regards
Kimball

Edited by user 02 January 2019 20:24:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Carim  
#6 Posted : 02 January 2019 11:33:41(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 342
Location: London
Hi Kimball,

You could consider a class 120. They handled both express IC passenger services and freight. They are gradually being phased out now but I have seen them recently (2016) even just on regional/inter-regional expresses.

Carim
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 02 January 2019 11:57:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,377
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Those designations don't mean a lot, at least to me (ES = Eurosprinter??), but I presume you mean the BR182 Taurus and BR152 TRAXX locos?
DB calls it class 182, ÖBB call it Taurus, Siemens (the manufacturer) calls it ES 64 U2 (DB class 182, ÖBB class 1116). Taurus also refers to ES 64 U and ES 64 U4.
Class 152 is ES 64 F while class 189 is ES 64 F4. The EuroSprinter family, now replaced by the Vectron family.
TRAXX are a different make - DB class 185 are TRAXX locos, so are SNCB class 28 locos or SBB Re 482 locos.

Since operators use many different class designations for the manufacturer name, I think it has advantages to use manufacturer names.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 02 January 2019 12:23:43(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,083
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
To all these you could probably add the Skoda manufactured loco that Marklin has recently introduced. One version comes in DB red colour scheme.

Marklin 36202, looks like it is around Euro 250, so a bit more expensive.

Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 02 January 2019 12:50:56(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,377
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
To all these you could probably add the Skoda manufactured loco that Marklin has recently introduced.
I haven't seen one of those in real life.
It's neither iconic nor ubiquitous for me.


I haven't seen a DB class 182 loco in years - now that they are mostly used for regional trains in Eastern Germany, they no longer haul freight trains in the west. With 25 units originally they were never iconic.
But I still see their privately owned sisters.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 02 January 2019 19:43:40(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,402
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
With 25 units originally they were never iconic.


How can you say that a loco as beautiful as the Taurus is not iconic! Laugh

Pity they wern't built in larger numbers!

I have 3 - one Marklin and two Rocos, but none have sound.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#11 Posted : 02 January 2019 20:26:58(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Carim Go to Quoted Post
Hi Kimball,

You could consider a class 120. They handled both express IC passenger services and freight. They are gradually being phased out now but I have seen them recently (2016) even just on regional/inter-regional expresses.

Carim


Thanks Carim,
I know the Class 120 is very iconic and a favourite with model enthusiasts, as it appeared in many different schemes.
Maerklin made it with MyWorld graphics which is quite attractive for a model.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#12 Posted : 02 January 2019 20:28:29(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
To all these you could probably add the Skoda manufactured loco that Marklin has recently introduced. One version comes in DB red colour scheme.

Marklin 36202, looks like it is around Euro 250, so a bit more expensive.



Thanks Alan,
Yes I see that one in the database, apparently it is for the Munich-Nuremburg expresses, so it would look good with a train of Doppelstockwagens in the Regio red style.

Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 02 January 2019 20:33:12(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,155
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,
Having recently visited my daughter who lives in Germany, I managed to travel on German railways for a few days here and there.

I was impressed by the intensity and timeliness of their operations.
Coming from Australia where the network of railways (outside of capital cities) is quite sparse, it really is quite fascinating.

I would like to purchase two modern German ELECTRIC locomotives modelled by Maerklin with sound.
I am asking thoose who live in Germany, or perhaps those who are familiar with the continental systems this one question.
Can you choose for me please, two locomotives (freight or passenger) representative of modern German operation?

I did notice many locos with lettering CARGO on the Rhine River freight route (the right bank??), and I guess these were Swiss trains given rights over the German system.
The whole scenario is a mystery to myself, and I suppose my guesses are not even correct.

Thanks in advance.

Kimball


DBAG (Passenger)/DB Schenker Cargo
If you are looking for passenger trains, the appropriate modern electric locomotives would be BR 101, BR 120
For regional passenger, it would be a BR 112, BR 146 or BR 147
For freight trains, it would be BR 145, BR 152, BR 185 or BR 189

There are a number of private operators in Germany, including SBB Cargo, as the German network was opened up to private companies, lease-hire companies and foreign companies.

It is not uncommon to find those SBB Cargo loks, Austrian Taurus loks and others pulling freights and charters on many German routes.

My recommendations for models would be:
Maerklin is releasing a model of the ICE 4. This will be the backbone of the Intercity fleet.
You should be able to find a BR 101 and Intercity coaches. Maerklin will probably announce 28cm models of the white and red coaches in 2019 or 2020.
If you don't want to wait, you can check out a BR 120 (37529 or similar) with the 43308/09/43310/43856 EC Tiziano set from the 1990s.
For a freight train, I like the livery of the new SBB Vectron.
https://railcolornews.co...sbb-cargo-international/
I expect a Maerklin model to be announced in 2019. You could put that with a container train made up of 47097 and similar container cars. The assorted containers make for an attractive train.

Bombardier Loks:
(Traxx Series) 145 (Freight), 146 (Regional), 146 (new Regional/Intercity), 147 (new Regional/Intercity), 185 (Freight)
Siemens Loks:
(Eurosprinter Series) (ES)
Taurus (OBB 1116/1216/DB 182) also known as ES64 U2
BR 152 led to the 189 multi system variant (ES64 F4)
When SNCB (Belgium) and CP (Portugal) ordered loks from the Taurus series, certain changes were made to accommodate new safety norms. This platform became the new standard and has replaced the Taurus in the Siemens line. This model is now called the Vectron aka BR 193.

A good place to get more information on all these models is railcolor.net

If you have larger radii, you might consider using a Maerklin lok with Roco, LSM or ACME passenger coaches, as the 30cm prototypical ones are more detailed.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#14 Posted : 02 January 2019 20:55:09(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Mike,
Thank you for the explanations, which clarifies the modern operations.
I noticed the freight trains along the Rhine for two days from my hotel window (what a way to holiday...) and the variety of motive power was confusing.
But the idea of many operators using the tracks makes sense.

Thank you for your suggestions.
The Vectron is one loco of which I saw a few, one at Berlin Hbf in Czech Republic blue passenger colour scheme.
Probably the 36197 is a good place to start in the DB standard colours.
I will not be interested in the longer model coaches, my layout suits the standard offerings from Maerklin.

And thanks for the railcolor link, I will find that most useful in the coming months.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#15 Posted : 02 January 2019 21:17:27(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
With 25 units originally they were never iconic.


How can you say that a loco as beautiful as the Taurus is not iconic! Laugh

Pity they wern't built in larger numbers!

I have 3 - one Marklin and two Rocos, but none have sound.


Hi David,
Interesting you should say that about the Taurus (aka ES64 U2), but I realise I have one of those models.
It has Mercedes Benz graphics as a Class 182, and came with a special car transport set #26527 sold at MB dealerships.
Maybe a real engine was decorated in those graphics ....

I would like another in the plain red, but I don't think Maerklin have done it.
Decisions decisions .....

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#16 Posted : 02 January 2019 22:23:33(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,083
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Carim Go to Quoted Post
Hi Kimball,

You could consider a class 120. They handled both express IC passenger services and freight. They are gradually being phased out now but I have seen them recently (2016) even just on regional/inter-regional expresses.

Carim


Thanks Carim,
I know the Class 120 is very iconic and a favourite with model enthusiasts, as it appeared in many different schemes.
Maerklin made it with MyWorld graphics which is quite attractive for a model.

Kimball


My understanding is the motor units of the ICE1 are Class 120 units under a different skin.


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Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 02 January 2019 22:34:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,377
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
It has Mercedes Benz graphics as a Class 182, and came with a special car transport set #26527 sold at MB dealerships.
Maybe a real engine was decorated in those graphics ....
"Das Original gibt es bei Märklin".
Yes, a real engine in 1:87 was decorated that way.

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
I would like another in the plain red, but I don't think Maerklin have done it.
39830 (fx and C-Sine). 39840 (mfx, no C-Sine).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#18 Posted : 02 January 2019 23:08:53(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,402
Location: New Zealand
Yes, thanks Tom - I have 39830 with C-Sine motor, it has no sound but is in DB Traffic Red.

The 2 Rocos I have are also in Traffic Red colour - 1 is in DB livery, the other is in Railon livery. Again no sound, but I think I could convert them with a sound decoder since the locos have an 8 pin NEM decoder socket.

The C-Sine locos are not easy to convert, you need additional MTC interface boards with the proper electronics to control the C-Sine motors. Marklin sold out of the MTC boards some years ago.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#19 Posted : 02 January 2019 23:19:37(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,402
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Interesting you should say that about the Taurus (aka ES64 U2), but I realise I have one of those models.
It has Mercedes Benz graphics as a Class 182, and came with a special car transport set #26527 sold at MB dealerships.


There is also a Taurus in Porsche colours that Marklin did - 39835 was the model number.

Capture.JPG


Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
I would like another in the plain red, but I don't think Maerklin have done it.
Decisions decisions .....



There are a couple of 39830's on ebay

https://www.ebay.de/itm/...EAAOSwiSVcLJyJ:rk:1:pf:0

https://www.ebay.de/itm/...EAAOSwBkNcKPU0:rk:2:pf:0

But only the first one will deliver outside of the EU. There's one 39840, but again German delivery only.
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Offline mbarreto  
#20 Posted : 03 January 2019 00:18:27(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 806
When the ebay seller specifies that only delivers to Germany, maybe he or she also delivers to other countries. I already bought 2 items in that situation.
Of course the seller need to be questioned first. If the answer is that the item can be delivered to outside Germany, the post price also needs to be specified by the seller.
Maybe it is easier to create an item in ebay.de just selling to Germany than to other countries...

Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline PJMärklin  
#21 Posted : 03 January 2019 02:48:15(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,305
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
When the ebay seller specifies that only delivers to Germany, maybe he or she also delivers to other countries. I already bought 2 items in that situation.
Of course the seller need to be questioned first. If the answer is that the item can be delivered to outside Germany, the post price also needs to be specified by the seller.


This is so.

I have bought most of my second-hand stuff from eBay.de for some time now.

Whilst at face first look they usually state only post to Germany, I have found the vast majority will post to Australia if asked; (of course the postage is hell)

PJ
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#22 Posted : 03 January 2019 03:22:02(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Thanks ALL for your input.

I am starting to get a much clearer picture of the manufacturers designs on each of the locomotives.
Like in the old days of fire and steam, electric Freight locos require different design parameters to those for express passenger.
I note some locos are labelled "fast general purpose" so I guess that equates to a BR41 steam engine which could handle both.

Anyway I have two modern locos already (the class 152 DB #34352 and the ES64 U2 with Mercedes Benz graphics #26527).
That gives me room to decide on another two over the next few weeks.

To add to the interest generated in this topic, here is a picture of the 26527 loco.
It is a very basic model - comes with a 6090 decoder so no sound or MFX, but it does make a rather iconic grinding noise ......
It appears to have a fictitious number 182 221-0. W221 is the MB nomenclature for the S class motor car.
182 221-0 ES type loco Maerklin 26527 set

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#23 Posted : 03 January 2019 05:43:35(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,402
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
I have found the vast majority will post to Australia if asked


Probably about 50/50 positive response when I've asked if sellers will ship to NZ.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#24 Posted : 03 January 2019 08:08:06(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,402
Location: New Zealand
Another question I get a 50/50 positive response to is the question of deducting VAT for out of Europe sales. Presumably those who refuse to deduct it can't be bothered dealing with the German tax authorities, but it does make me wonder what happens to VAT paid. Does the dealer pocket it and claim an out of Europe sale or do they actually pay the tax?

(Off topic I know - sorry Kimball - but a particular annoyance for me)
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#25 Posted : 03 January 2019 08:16:54(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
And here is another photo I took in December 2018.
It is an ES64 U2 passing westbound through Eberbach, south Odenwald in BW. 11/12/2018. #ES64U2-009
it was only after returning home and asking these questions, that I learnt how significant a photo I had taken.

The extended arm mast for catenary happened to be in the photo, and is another subject in which I am interested.
UserPostedImage

Kimball

Edited by user 04 January 2019 11:13:26(UTC)  | Reason: added date and loc number

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#26 Posted : 03 January 2019 08:20:57(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Another question I get a 50/50 positive response to is the question of deducting VAT for out of Europe sales. Presumably those who refuse to deduct it can't be bothered dealing with the German tax authorities, but it does make me wonder what happens to VAT paid. Does the dealer pocket it and claim an out of Europe sale or do they actually pay the tax?

(Off topic I know - sorry Kimball - but a particular annoyance for me)

Yes when buying from eBay.de, usually second-hand I don't worry about VAT because the article is usually cheaper anyway.
I much prefer to deal with proper dealers (via their website), who automatically take away the VAT on new articles.
I suppose they do it with second hand articles as well.

Kimball


HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#27 Posted : 03 January 2019 09:22:39(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,402
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
I suppose they do it with second hand articles as well.


There's a differential tax applied to 2nd hand items sold through dealers which is not deductible for those of us outside Europe. Tom can explain how it works better than I can.

Great picture of a Taurus in its native environment, Kimball. ThumpUp
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Offline H0  
#28 Posted : 03 January 2019 09:27:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,377
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Presumably those who refuse to deduct it can't be bothered dealing with the German tax authorities, but it does make me wonder what happens to VAT paid. Does the dealer pocket it and claim an out of Europe sale or do they actually pay the tax?
Private sellers do not pay VAT, so there is nothing to deduct.
For second-hand items professional sellers may opt to pay VAT only on their profit - in this case they do not disclose the VAT on the invoice and will not/cannot deduct the VAT when shipping abroad.
Part-time professional sellers (small business) can opt not to pay VAT at all. In that case there is nothing to deduct either.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#29 Posted : 03 January 2019 09:34:37(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
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Posts: 16,402
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Part-time professional sellers (small business) can opt not to pay VAT at all. In that case there is nothing to deduct either.


Surely it is not that laissez-faire as whether a seller pays or not. In NZ the limit is $60000 NZD per year, if you earn above that you pay GST, if not you don't. Surely there must be a limit where VAT kicks in.

The particular dealer I was asking about VAT today is a Professional dealer selling new items, and the items are advertised on ebay as including 19% VAT.
Offline H0  
#30 Posted : 03 January 2019 09:43:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,377
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Surely there must be a limit where VAT kicks in.
I think the limits are total sales of more than €25,000 in the previous year or expected total sales of more than €100,000 in the current year.

Maybe some are too lazy to deal with tax deduction regulations. Maybe some write double invoices (one for you, a different amount for the tax authorities) to get the VAT into their own pockets.
I never had to deal with VAT, so I do not know any details about the red tape involved.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Online Minok  
#31 Posted : 03 January 2019 22:17:29(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,804
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
If your looking to get a passenger train that is iconic, I'd shoot for the ICE4, though its a train, not a loco, but its color scheme and class of service spans 1991 to today (with the test trains running in the 1980's) so its a great constant fit for a wide range of eras, and the modern incarnation of the style.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#32 Posted : 05 January 2019 01:23:11(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
If your looking to get a passenger train that is iconic, I'd shoot for the ICE4, though its a train, not a loco, but its color scheme and class of service spans 1991 to today (with the test trains running in the 1980's) so its a great constant fit for a wide range of eras, and the modern incarnation of the style.


Hi Thomas,
Thanks for that.
I will have to treat the ICE trains separately from the locos.
They are indeed ubiquitous in Germany, and iconic too.

But I think I will need a while to sort out whether I go for a 1, 2 , 3 or 4.
So that will be the question ....
At least they are widely available.

regards Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline TEEWolf  
#33 Posted : 06 January 2019 21:14:07(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,381
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,
Having recently visited my daughter who lives in Germany, I managed to travel on German railways for a few days here and there.

I was impressed by the intensity and timeliness of their operations.
Coming from Australia where the network of railways (outside of capital cities) is quite sparse, it really is quite fascinating.

I would like to purchase two modern German ELECTRIC locomotives modelled by Maerklin with sound.
I am asking thoose who live in Germany, or perhaps those who are familiar with the continental systems this one question.
Can you choose for me please, two locomotives (freight or passenger) representative of modern German operation?

I did notice many locos with lettering CARGO on the Rhine River freight route (the right bank??), and I guess these were Swiss trains given rights over the German system.
The whole scenario is a mystery to myself, and I suppose my guesses are not even correct.

Thanks in advance.

Kimball


Hello Kimball,

have not yet read thouroghly the complete thread, but I think a train with the BR 102 and its red DoSto wagon (= Doppelstockwaggon) is a must, if you want to buy a modern train from Germany. More than a ICE 1 - 3 is at the moment.

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/36202/

This loco is used for the new local express line Nürnberg-Munich-Express (NME)

https://en.wikipedia.org...en-N%C3%BCrnberg-Express

Here a video about test drives of the complete train at the (river) Saar route.



This video is from the INNOTRANS fair in Berlin, introducing this new NME.



This is a video introducing all kinds of DoStos in Germany




A second loco will be the BR 193. Here only a video about a delivery from the producer to the DB ag of 2 brandnew locos.



The line NME is outstanding, because it is the first line in Germany where a high-speed long distance train (normally an ICE today) is combined with a fast speed (high-speed is defined for trains which are running more than 250 km/h) short distance train using the same track lines. The schedules are setted in the way that the still much faster ICE is passing the local express train, while this one is in a train station changing passengers.

I just returned from Munich using the A 9 Autobahn, where over long distances the train tracks are guided parallel to the 6-lane road. Meanwhile it is quite normal, driving the car with about 160 km/h (more is not allowed for myself at the moment, because I have my Winter tires on the car and they are limited to a maximum speed of 160 km/h) and an ICE with 300 km/h passes you. But a new experience now, a red one, regional, train is doing the same tooBigGrin using the new BR 102 as a loco and not having a electrical multiple unit.

If you are sometimes in Darmstadt, Germany you can do a one day train round trip from Darmstadt via Frankfurt, Würzburg, Nürnberg, München, Stuttgart, Heidelberg, Darmstadt and using for the segment Nürnberg - München the new NME.

Best regards

TEEWolf



CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
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Offline Thewolf  
#34 Posted : 07 January 2019 00:03:36(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,401
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,
Having recently visited my daughter who lives in Germany, I managed to travel on German railways for a few days here and there.

I was impressed by the intensity and timeliness of their operations.
Coming from Australia where the network of railways (outside of capital cities) is quite sparse, it really is quite fascinating.

I would like to purchase two modern German ELECTRIC locomotives modelled by Maerklin with sound.
I am asking thoose who live in Germany, or perhaps those who are familiar with the continental systems this one question.
Can you choose for me please, two locomotives (freight or passenger) representative of modern German operation?

I did notice many locos with lettering CARGO on the Rhine River freight route (the right bank??), and I guess these were Swiss trains given rights over the German system.
The whole scenario is a mystery to myself, and I suppose my guesses are not even correct.

Thanks in advance.

Kimball


Hello Kimball,

have not yet read thouroghly the complete thread, but I think a train with the BR 102 and its red DoSto wagon (= Doppelstockwaggon) is a must, if you want to buy a modern train from Germany. More than a ICE 1 - 3 is at the moment.

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/36202/

This loco is used for the new local express line Nürnberg-Munich-Express (NME)

https://en.wikipedia.org...en-N%C3%BCrnberg-Express

Here a video about test drives of the complete train at the (river) Saar route.



This video is from the INNOTRANS fair in Berlin, introducing this new NME.



This is a video introducing all kinds of DoStos in Germany




A second loco will be the BR 193. Here only a video about a delivery from the producer to the DB ag of 2 brandnew locos.



The line NME is outstanding, because it is the first line in Germany where a high-speed long distance train (normally an ICE today) is combined with a fast speed (high-speed is defined for trains which are running more than 250 km/h) short distance train using the same track lines. The schedules are setted in the way that the still much faster ICE is passing the local express train, while this one is in a train station changing passengers.

I just returned from Munich using the A 9 Autobahn, where over long distances the train tracks are guided parallel to the 6-lane road. Meanwhile it is quite normal, driving the car with about 160 km/h (more is not allowed for myself at the moment, because I have my Winter tires on the car and they are limited to a maximum speed of 160 km/h) and an ICE with 300 km/h passes you. But a new experience now, a red one, regional, train is doing the same tooBigGrin using the new BR 102 as a loco and not having a electrical multiple unit.

If you are sometimes in Darmstadt, Germany you can do a one day train round trip from Darmstadt via Frankfurt, Würzburg, Nürnberg, München, Stuttgart, Heidelberg, Darmstadt and using for the segment Nürnberg - München the new NME.

Best regards

TEEWolf





Thank you Wolfgang Cool

Dream rolling stock.

I have seen Bombardier, but even though Bombardier is a Quebec company, the transportation division is essentially European. I'm not even sure if Bombardier from home still has something to say to Europe.

All I can say is that Armand Bombardier, the founder of Bombardier, must turn around in his grave when he sees what has become of his empire. It is very sad for us in Quebec

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#35 Posted : 07 January 2019 00:16:57(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
..... I think a train with the BR 102 and its red DoSto wagon (= Doppelstockwaggon) is a must, if you want to buy a modern train from Germany. More than a ICE 1 - 3 is at the moment.

.....

If you are sometimes in Darmstadt, Germany you can do a one day train round trip from Darmstadt via Frankfurt, Würzburg, Nürnberg, München, Stuttgart, Heidelberg, Darmstadt and using for the segment Nürnberg - München the new NME.

Best regards

TEEWolf


Hi Wolf,
Thanks for the tips, and the videos.

I agree that the Skoda red locomotive is definitely one to consider.
Maerklin do a #36202, and there is a review of the Czech Maerklin model here (under Review ...).

I wonder if Skoda do the electric motors and bogies as well as the locomotive frame and body.
Skoda built many railway rolling stock in years past.
I believe they built all the Doppelstockwagens for the train too.

Regarding the travel via the NME segment Nürnberg - München, that will have to wait for my return to Germany.
That may be a few years away.
Certainly the facility for travel by train in Germany is generally well managed by DB.
My only trouble was in getting from Platform 5 to Platform 12 in 6 minutes in a strange station (or Hbf) environment when the ticket is booked for specific train departures.
Of course when you are familiar with the station it is no problem.
To be honest the signage at the German stations is very clear, and the platform/concourse lifts are convenient and well placed.
I found the lack of large luggage storage on some trains a problem, but the later the model of train, the better design of storage.

Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Online Minok  
#36 Posted : 07 January 2019 00:55:42(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,804
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post


I found the lack of large luggage storage on some trains a problem, but the later the model of train, the better design of storage.

Kimball



This is a constant in all transportation vehicles that the older cars/carriages/planes tend to have less space. Back “in the day” one too smaller suitcases for trips and was often not traveling as far. For the big trips themliggage was often checked through luggage services. The seats in the train cars of the 70’s and 80’s has luggage racks above all of the benches in open and compartment seating but only for what would be backpacks and carry on sized bags of today. I think I got a 1970’s samsonote suitcase up there as well.

Then some cars were modernize in designs that mimicked air travel and luggage storage was moved away from seats as most travelers didn’t need it to that extent.


Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#37 Posted : 19 January 2019 22:09:57(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,725
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Just an update on how you guys have helped me come to some decisions (for now).
Acknowledgement to Maerklin for their website photographs.

I have ordered the 36630 MFX red Elektrolokomotive 187.1 (TRAXX AC 3) der Deutschen Bahn AG (DB AG) which is mainly used for freight.
Maerklin 36630

Also the 36197 MFX red Elektrolokomotive 170 der DB Schenker Rail (Siemens Vectron) which may be general purpose??
Maerklin 36197

I am considering a few others.

The 36630 was already at my local dealer, so it has been running on my layout sourrounded by era IIIa stuff, but appears to be quite at home.
No problems on curved C track R2 turnouuts, double slips, R1 curves etc.
The sound functions are so real from my recent memory in Germany.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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