Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline sudibarba  
#1 Posted : 10 June 2017 03:43:06(UTC)
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Well, I got my new CS3 and downloaded the manual. Have not looked at the connectors.
I am aware that some law in Europe requires the new power supplies. I am in the USA.

My question is can I use the same Transformer I used with my CS2 or my 60174 booster?

Is this a European requirement and will the CS3 function with my existing power? Marklin
has alway provided for upward upgrades but what is the case with this situation?

Thanks,
Eric
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 10 June 2017 07:30:40(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Hello Eric!
Märklin recommend power with 60061 (60 VA) for the scale H0.
While 60101 (100 VA) is for large scale trains.
60061 and 60101 do have power 230 Volts.
I´m not sure catalog number for the USA.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 10 June 2017 07:39:19(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: sudibarba Go to Quoted Post


My question is can I use the same Transformer I used with my CS2 or my 60174 booster?



Yes Transformer can been use for the CS3.
CS2 and CS3 use same Transformer.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 10 June 2017 08:06:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Eric!
Originally Posted by: sudibarba Go to Quoted Post
My question is can I use the same Transformer I used with my CS2 or my 60174 booster?
You cannot connect transformers to the CS3. Same plug, but it won't work.

I'm too lazy to search for it, but in another thread users confirmed that they tried this and it did not work.

To support AC the CS3 would need some extra parts (as it needs DC internally anyway). These parts are missing.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 10 June 2017 08:16:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Yes Transformer can been use for the CS3.
CS2 and CS3 use same Transformer.
Writes someone who does not own a CS3 (neither a CS2).

Here is the old thread:
https://www.marklin-user...9-Marklin-CS3#post543109

Jörg bets a bottle of champagne that the CS3 does not work with a transformer. I think he'll keep that bottle.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#6 Posted : 10 June 2017 10:31:44(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
I suppose transformer TS did write are DC power feeder for the CS2 60215.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 10 June 2017 11:03:38(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I suppose transformer TS did write are DC power feeder for the CS2 60215.
He wrote "I have an early CS2 Ser #1807". So I guess it is a 60213.

The transformer 60052 wasn't in the catalogue anymore when the 60215 appeared (the 60055 stayed their longer, maybe they had to get rid of their stocks).

Transformers provide AC, not DC. CS3 cannot be used with AC.

This discussion is spread across (at least) two threads:
https://www.marklin-user...8-CS2-failure#post547438
Eric didn't clarify whether he has a transformer or a power supply.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#8 Posted : 10 June 2017 11:05:44(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I´m not sure catalog number for the USA.


60065. There is no 120v equivalent for 60101 listed in the catalog.

Offline Crazy Harry  
#9 Posted : 10 June 2017 20:20:22(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 476
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I´m not sure catalog number for the USA.


60065. There is no 120v equivalent for 60101 listed in the catalog.



Best to quote product numbers to avoid any confusion!

Although not technically correct, some people call anything that changes mains voltage to that required by the model railroad a "transformer."

Harold.
Offline sudibarba  
#10 Posted : 10 June 2017 23:29:38(UTC)
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Thanks for all the replies. From the posts and Clapcott's screen shots it appears that
I must use a 60061/60065 to power the CS3. It also seems that I can use my 60174 booster
with a transformer. Mine is the 60055 120v version of the one shown on the screen shot from
Clapcott. The one listed is the 220v version but that should not matter. As I can not power up
my CS3 yet I cannot see if the 120v items are listed.

Eric
Offline dickinsonj  
#11 Posted : 11 June 2017 01:45:21(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: sudibarba Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for all the replies. From the posts and Clapcott's screen shots it appears that
I must use a 60061/60065 to power the CS3. It also seems that I can use my 60174 booster
with a transformer. Mine is the 60055 120v version of the one shown on the screen shot from
Clapcott. The one listed is the 220v version but that should not matter. As I can not power up
my CS3 yet I cannot see if the 120v items are listed.

Eric

Any switched mode power supply that was correct for a CS2 is appropriate for a CS3/CS3+.

There are not many choices for 120V and the 60065 power supplies that I bought for my 60174 and 60175 boosters, as well as my 60215 CS2 are really your only 120V options as far as I know.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#12 Posted : 11 June 2017 09:55:43(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I´m not sure catalog number for the USA.


60065. There is no 120v equivalent for 60101 listed in the catalog.


Best to quote product numbers to avoid any confusion!


You're causing the confusion. Those are the product numbers for US 120v power supplies!
Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 11 June 2017 10:19:48(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
He wrote "I have an early CS2 Ser #1807". So I guess it is a 60213.
Eric didn't clarify whether he has a transformer or a power supply.


No his first post he did wrote just CS2...nothing else.
He did wrote transformer but i did supposed he did mean power supply for the CS2.
Which means DC power.
TS should at the start of the post clarified better what he mean about power source he has and CS2 catalog number.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 11 June 2017 13:17:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
No his first post he did wrote just CS2...nothing else.
He wrote that in his first thread about the issue, see link in post #7.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#15 Posted : 11 June 2017 16:20:34(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
No his first post he did wrote just CS2...nothing else.
He wrote that in his first thread about the issue, see link in post #7.


And that was in another thread and post which i didn´t focus.
Not even my fault.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#16 Posted : 11 June 2017 17:36:33(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Not even my fault.



Never.

Not even when you can't tell the difference between AC or DC, between a transformer and a switch mode power supply, or talk about detonations in the current.

You are NEVER wrong, and it's NEVER your fault. LOL

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline NewComix  
#17 Posted : 12 June 2017 23:24:38(UTC)
NewComix

Germany   
Joined: 17/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Harsefeld, Niedersachsen
Hi Eric,

Originally Posted by: sudibarba Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for all the replies. From the posts and Clapcott's screen shots it appears that
I must use a 60061/60065 to power the CS3. It also seems that I can use my 60174 booster
with a transformer. Mine is the 60055 120v version of the one shown on the screen shot from
Clapcott. The one listed is the 220v version but that should not matter. As I can not power up
my CS3 yet I cannot see if the 120v items are listed.

Eric


yes, you need a power supply for the CS3. As you have 120v in the States, you need the 60065 to power your CS3. 60061 won't work. You can still use your 60055 120v transformer for the 60174 booster or the old CS2, but the CS3 requires the 60065.

kind regards
Jörg



thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NewComix
Offline sudibarba  
#18 Posted : 15 June 2017 01:33:57(UTC)
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Thanks for the reply. In my first post I asked about my transformer not the power supply
now required. I don't know what Goofy's problem is but I am good to go. Power supply on the way and
I will use my booster with my transformer.

Thanks to all,
Eric
Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 15 June 2017 07:50:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Not even my fault.
Not?

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I suppose transformer TS did write are DC power feeder for the CS2 60215.
You suppose something, but do not mention what you're supposing.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
He did wrote transformer but i did supposed he did mean power supply for the CS2.
That's the fault.
Do not give an unconditional "Yes" if the answer is based on supposing and assuming, especially if you assume the information given by the TS is false.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline bph  
#20 Posted : 12 November 2018 19:50:30(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Anyone here powering a CS3 with dc from a transformer and an adjustable voltage regulator ?
something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/5AMP-Adjustable-Voltage-Regulator-Module-External-Pot-/400293000788

I’m considering to make dc voltage regulator myself. I know the CS3 can’t take ac directly. But in theory rectified and regulated 19v dc from a 6002 should do the trick. I’m currently using a 6021 with a 6002, but its time to upgrade, and like to still use some old parts.
MrB32  
#21 Posted : 12 November 2018 20:49:34(UTC)
Guest


Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 260
Some answers in this thread are surreal... What happened to the concepts of politeness and civility?
Offline TEEWolf  
#22 Posted : 12 November 2018 21:16:58(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: sudibarba Go to Quoted Post
Well, I got my new CS3 and downloaded the manual. Have not looked at the connectors.
I am aware that some law in Europe requires the new power supplies. I am in the USA.

My question is can I use the same Transformer I used with my CS2 or my 60174 booster?

Is this a European requirement and will the CS3 function with my existing power? Marklin
has alway provided for upward upgrades but what is the case with this situation?

Thanks,
Eric


Eric,

why do you not read Märklins information about transformers and power supplies on its homepage first?

https://www.maerklin.de/...itched-mode-power-packs/

Regards

TEEWolf
Offline TEEWolf  
#23 Posted : 12 November 2018 21:23:48(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: MrB32 Go to Quoted Post
Some answers in this thread are surreal... What happened to the concepts of politeness and civility?


Correct and agree.
But what happened with Märklins informations, FAQs, references, etc., about its own products?
For example:

https://www.maerklin.de/...itched-mode-power-packs/
Offline H0  
#24 Posted : 12 November 2018 21:26:31(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
But what happened with Märklins informations, FAQs, references, etc., about its own products?
Märklin's information is clear as mud and somewhat incomplete, that's why people ask questions here.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Purellum  
#25 Posted : 12 November 2018 21:42:54(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: MrB32 Go to Quoted Post
Some answers in this thread are surreal... What happened to the concepts of politeness and civility?


After 12 years of being polite to and trying to help the same guy, who always give wrong answers,
pretending that he knows for sure that they are right, it's hard to keep being polite and civil.

On the other hand I don't see anybody being rude; we're just having a laugh. LOL

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Purellum
H0
Offline dickinsonj  
#26 Posted : 13 November 2018 01:41:44(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post

On the other hand I don't see anybody being rude; we're just having a laugh. LOL

Per.

Cool



I agree, but we might get a bit on the edge at times here on the fourm I believe, especially for some newer users, whose ideas and experiences are very welcome.

Some of us have endured troll posts from a few members and know when to call enough. If posts are just to complain and not to add info then they just get in the way of why we are here. Right or wrong we are here because we run primarily Märklin trains and think that they are wonderful and make for a fun hobby. BigGrin

Tom is correct in pointing out how much Märklin's technical docs suck - and it is even worse for those of us who don't have good German language skills anymore. I see model trains as a weird type of puzzle made that much more difficult by the incomplete and incomprehensible documentation. BigGrin

But then I get paid to figure out puzzles and this is a fun relief for me, and I enjoy a bit of a challenge. This forum has saved me multiple times and is the best source of Märklin info that I have seen. The forum has some very deep wells of knowledge that people share freely, if at times gruffly. Cool
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline H0  
#27 Posted : 13 November 2018 08:22:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
After 12 years of being polite to and trying to help the same guy, who always give wrong answers,
pretending that he knows for sure that they are right,
Yep. Quite often he is "the fastest gun in the West" (the first to reply) and he has a remarkable endurance when it comes to repeating non-sense statements ad nauseam.
One has to look at more than one thread to see the full picture.

Those who think a post is rude and impolite can always flag the post for moderator attention. And rude posters may then get a temporary ban, indicated by a red shape beside their name.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#28 Posted : 13 November 2018 08:37:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
But in theory rectified and regulated 19v dc from a 6002 should do the trick.
In theory that will do the trick.
But I assume that under heavy load it will not be able to provide 19 V, thus also leading to a track voltage that does down under load.

The transformer is specified for 52 VA. According to the Märklin Transformer FAQ you can only get 36 VA DC from such a transformer perpetually. If you draw 52 VA DC from it for longer periods, the transformer will get hot and will turn off.
The CS3 was designed and configured to work with power sources that provide 60 VA and it will not turn off track voltage below that mark.
I do not know how quickly the transformer will shut off when load reaches 60 VA DC.

So: Run one or two trains with your 6002 and you will probably be fine.
But when you run a big layout you may experience the transformer shutting off, giving the CS3 a blank screen and potentially losing unsaved changes in the CS3.
Try your solution and see how far you get - or order a switching mode power pack right from the start.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline bph  
#29 Posted : 13 November 2018 11:41:28(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
But in theory rectified and regulated 19v dc from a 6002 should do the trick.
In theory that will do the trick.
But I assume that under heavy load it will not be able to provide 19 V, thus also leading to a track voltage that does down under load.

The transformer is specified for 52 VA. According to the Märklin Transformer FAQ you can only get 36 VA DC from such a transformer perpetually. If you draw 52 VA DC from it for longer periods, the transformer will get hot and will turn off.
The CS3 was designed and configured to work with power sources that provide 60 VA and it will not turn off track voltage below that mark.
I do not know how quickly the transformer will shut off when load reaches 60 VA DC.

So: Run one or two trains with your 6002 and you will probably be fine.
But when you run a big layout you may experience the transformer shutting off, giving the CS3 a blank screen and potentially losing unsaved changes in the CS3.
Try your solution and see how far you get - or order a switching mode power pack right from the start.


Thanks for replay.
Yes, I agree the risk is that it may provide a bit low voltage. I just checked some voltages, and the transformer provide 18,2v (a bit high mains here) and connected to a simple unregulated rectifier, it provide 24,5v unloaded and 21,7v with a 12v fan, until the fan started to some like a steamer and gave up 😉. (Old PC fan). So I guess the only way to know for sure I to get a LM338 and test. An adjustable DC power supply is always useful anyway. Plan is to just use the transformer in the start and spread the cost.


Offline David Dewar  
#30 Posted : 13 November 2018 11:42:52(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
Regarding Marklin documentation I find that they presume that the reader has a certain amount of knowledge and rarely do a step by step instruction.

Diagrams can also be confusing. We pay a lot for models etc so I think we need a decent set of clear instructions.

Thankfully we have this forum to assist although the recent thread on shuttle trains can also be interesting !! although in that case the instructions with the track are quite clear.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline Purellum  
#31 Posted : 13 November 2018 18:21:19(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
An adjustable DC power supply is always useful anyway.


I use these for a lot of things, they are actually quite good. You still need your own rectifier:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/s...odule+LM2596&_sop=15

These can do a bit more; but still super cheap:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i...sAAOSw0UdXqKXf:rk:1:pf:0

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Purellum
bph
Users browsing this topic
Similar Topics
CS3 Power Problem (Digital)
by compatty 06/02/2021 23:59:31(UTC)
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.114 seconds.