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Offline skeeterbuck  
#1 Posted : 09 October 2018 12:46:33(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
I recently received my Roco BR 85 (78262) and am having trouble getting the dynamic steam function to operate consistently. Also, after entering the loco into my MS2 2.7 I only have 5 functions.

First off the Dynamic Steam issue. This is the term that Roco uses for their "puffing smoke" feature where a plume of smoke is emitted from the stack synchronized with every "chuff" sound. If your not familiar with this feature check it out as there are several videos on Youtube that demo this feature and it's quite exciting and the main reason I purchased this loco. The loco comes with a small vial of Seuthe fluid and syringe. I think there are the same as the ones that come now with all the Seuthe smoke units. You add the fluid to the loco by removing the lid on the forward sand dome and underneath there is a hole that leads to the fluid reservoir. The instructions caution to not more that 1.5 ml per filling. My guess would be that by adding too much the reservoir would overflow and make a mess by dripping out. On my initial filling, I chose a err on the cautious side and only added 1 ml of fluid. Upon activation of the smoke feature the unit wouldn't smoke unless I lightly blew into the filling tube. It then smoke very well and the puffing feature worked great and was very impressive. However, after about 30 seconds the smoking trickled of and stopped. I then blew into the tube again and it started working only to stop again after a short time. The best way I can describe it as it some sort of air lock is forming inside the reservoir or the tube leading to the smoke unit.

The second issue is the amount of functions available. To the best of my limited knowledge, this loco comes with a MFX compatible decoder made by Zimo. When I first entered the loco on my MS2 I used the "find loco" and it quickly located the engine and added it to my list. However it only has 5 functions available. They are as follows: F0 Headlights, F1 Steam Sound, F2 Smoke, F3 Whistle (short), F4 Whistle (long). This engine is advertised as having about 20 different features similar to the newer Märklin engines like shovelling coal.air pump etc. I'm not very concerned about the additional sounds but two of the features that I would like to get are the red light showing in the rear and the cab light function.

Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

Chuck
Offline franciscohg  
#2 Posted : 09 October 2018 13:19:32(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,266
Location: Patagonia
Hello, having both era 2 and 3 units i may say:
Era 3 came with a DCC decoder, you had to register at Zimo site and then they sent you an mfx decoder for free, wich I did and then received it There was a letter on the loco box telling to do so. The era 2 versión came with a DCC deck also but not letter, checked all the item descriptions and indeed none was tell about mfx decoder. Try to register as DCC, you will certainly get all the functions
As for the smoke unit, have not get that behaviour, both problem and solution are described in several places as dirt in the unit. Maybe a more intensive cleaning is needed.
Regards
Francisco
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#3 Posted : 09 October 2018 16:14:16(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Hello, having both era 2 and 3 units i may say:
Era 3 came with a DCC decoder, you had to register at Zimo site and then they sent you an mfx decoder for free, wich I did and then received it There was a letter on the loco box telling to do so. The era 2 versión came with a DCC deck also but not letter, checked all the item descriptions and indeed none was tell about mfx decoder. Try to register as DCC, you will certainly get all the functions
As for the smoke unit, have not get that behaviour, both problem and solution are described in several places as dirt in the unit. Maybe a more intensive cleaning is needed.
Regards
Francisco


Thanks Francisco for your reply.

Is there a step by step on how to enter this loco as DCC?

Also, as to the smoke problem, would there be dirt in the unit from the factory? I just received this unit 2 days ago. Can you direct me to where the dirt in the unit is discussed?

Chuck
Offline franciscohg  
#4 Posted : 09 October 2018 17:57:15(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,266
Location: Patagonia
Hi.
As for the smoke unit, the discussion was in a closed FB group and privately with some members of the Argentinean Marklin Club. I have just reviewed them and it was not only dirt that can cause the problem but also condensation of the smoke fluid,they seem to have extensive expereince on those unit by the use of US made material in wich they are more common. The recomendation is to make a strong blow with a straw and to always use it full of liquid and then remove all remanents after use and prior to put it away.
As for the registration process, first check that DCC protocol is enabled on the MS2, then choose to add the loco manually as DCC and select adress 3 ( default adress IIRC, not at home to check it now ). After that you can change the adress to the one you want and have all the functions,with generic icons. I have not used a MS2 as a master in ages, so i dont remember how or if you can change the functions icon.
Best regards
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline Minok  
#5 Posted : 09 October 2018 23:00:43(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Reading the manual on that loco it appears that the delivered Zimo decoder is a Motorola compatible controller, which I think means it may be limited by what MM format allows. If you control it via DCC (register it as a DCC loco) you may have easier access to the higher number functions, or the experts on the way you work with MM controllers can chime in. IE I don't think it has an MFX (or M4) decoder.. but could be wrong.


For the smoke generator, the symptoms you are having sound a log like some folks have with the Piezo water vaporizer systems on the Diesels that have that sort of system - there is a fluid tank and way for the fluid to get to the 'smoke generator' and that a disruption of that fluid travel is causing problems.

For this loco, it appears the internal tank flows down into the internally mounted smoke generator by way of a small opening, which then when smoking rises past the fan, that puffs in sync with the sound. It may well be there is something keeping the fluid you put in flowing down by gravity into the actual smoke generator mounted down inside the loco. (the image is from the page where Roco recommends drawing out any unused fluid if your finished using the loco)

Capture.PNG
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#6 Posted : 09 October 2018 23:29:56(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Thanks guys! I was able to reinstall the loco on my MS2 using the DCC protocol and now have the other functions so at least that's a success. BigGrin

No more news on the smoke unit however the pic you supplied Minok makes it easier now to understand what's going on inside. What I can't understand as to how the fluid would clog up inside. From my experience using Seuthe fluid, it some kind of cleaning fluid and when I leave it set in a normal engine in about a week's time it will evaporite and leave the unit empty.Confused I going to attempt to make a video of it's operation and send it to the dealer where I purchased the loco and Roco. I think it will then be obvious exactly what happening. It really disappointing to have such a neat feature not working. Sad Cursing

Chuck
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#7 Posted : 10 October 2018 16:12:15(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Found this video on Youtube showing the same problem as I described in my original post. Maybe some others here could interpret what he is saying. My guess it's: "A puff of air gets it going again". Wink

Offline Webmaster  
#8 Posted : 10 October 2018 19:26:03(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
That's what he says indeed...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Minok  
#9 Posted : 11 October 2018 23:15:12(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Yep, he says, "If the Roco model 85 isn't smoking as nice anymore, take a pipette and blow a little air into the fill pipe"
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#10 Posted : 12 October 2018 02:54:05(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
In the video, that looks to be the BR 85 that Roco released last year. That leads me to think that the problem I'm having isn't new. I wonder if Roco has a recommended "fix" for it?Huh The blowing into the fill pipe only solves the problem for a very short time.

Francisco, does the smoke unit on your Roco BR 85's require this "blowing" for them to work?
Offline franciscohg  
#11 Posted : 18 October 2018 22:25:26(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,266
Location: Patagonia
Hi, sorry for the delay, but i have been away of the pc for some days.
At this moment i run my locos only in a little oval, layout just beginning to be build, iso, i run my machines not very much, anyway both units have worked with no problems, since i was aware of the potential troubles last year i always fill the unit before use and after that remove all fluid excedent, i also do a powerful blow, after use and before.
hope it helps
regards
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline AmalfiCoast  
#12 Posted : 21 October 2018 03:49:07(UTC)
AmalfiCoast

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2016(UTC)
Posts: 153
Location: Maryland, South Laurel
Hi,

Have you had any more luck with your loco? Can you say where you purchased it from?

Thanks,
David
Offline skeeterbuck  
#13 Posted : 22 October 2018 15:00:58(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: AmalfiCoast Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

Have you had any more luck with your loco? Can you say where you purchased it from?

Thanks,
David


Well...yes but not to my satisfaction. I was finally able to confirm that the decoder is NOT MFX as I was originally led to believe. To obtain 16 functions (most available using MS2) they need to be entered manually. Also, apparently even Roco recommends "puffing" some air into the loco to get the smoke unit running again. I would be OK with this solution if it was required only every now and then. With mine it was every several minutes. I could just imagine having to nearly constantly having to correct this issue and in the end have decided to return it. I Purchased it from AJC Kids, but as far as I'm concerned it not their fault. They didn't make the loco, Roco did.
Offline franciscohg  
#14 Posted : 22 October 2018 18:40:52(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,266
Location: Patagonia
Ohhh, that is sad, I must say that even the dynamic smoke is interesting it was not the main reason to buy it. The Br85 from M is quite a deceiving machine from the point of view of its construction. This model is far superior, also the Zimo sound decoder is outstanding.
Just my opinion
Regards
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline skeeterbuck  
#15 Posted : 23 October 2018 13:09:48(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Ohhh, that is sad, I must say that even the dynamic smoke is interesting it was not the main reason to buy it. The Br85 from M is quite a deceiving machine from the point of view of its construction. This model is far superior, also the Zimo sound decoder is outstanding.
Just my opinion
Regards


I agree that the sound decoder was great and I did give it some serious thought before I deciding to return it. The dynamic steam feature was an important feature for me and I just couldn't imagine using the loco and having to keep "puffing" into the unit to keep it working. I was concerned that it would be irritating enough to make me regret keeping it. Unsure

I can't help but think that a minor design change could eliminate the issues with the unit. In the end it was an overall sad experience. Sad
Offline Minok  
#16 Posted : 23 October 2018 21:13:10(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Ohhh, that is sad, I must say that even the dynamic smoke is interesting it was not the main reason to buy it. The Br85 from M is quite a deceiving machine from the point of view of its construction. This model is far superior, also the Zimo sound decoder is outstanding.
Just my opinion
Regards


I agree that the sound decoder was great and I did give it some serious thought before I deciding to return it. The dynamic steam feature was an important feature for me and I just couldn't imagine using the loco and having to keep "puffing" into the unit to keep it working. I was concerned that it would be irritating enough to make me regret keeping it. Unsure

I can't help but think that a minor design change could eliminate the issues with the unit. In the end it was an overall sad experience. Sad


Given its Roco it may not provide a timely result, but I'd encourage you to contact Roco customer service by email and express the situation to get their input on it and at least make sure they directly know a customer gave up on their product - that may help them improve the design.

I know from my own experience in just pulling off the tender from a steam loco and the aggravation in getting it (and the electrics) reattached, that I'd not want to try and disassemble the loco to see if there was an obstruction of some kind (dust, etc) in that small pathway from the oil tank that drips it into the smoke generator. This is the sort of issue the factory has to work on with its engineers.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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