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Offline Unholz  
#1 Posted : 23 July 2018 16:08:01(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
The Swedes might be better at playing football than the Swiss - but reading road signs doesn't seem to be among their prime skills. Wink

This driver of a Swedish tourist bus was determined to be the first to conquer the narrow and winding Albula pass road in Switzerland - although a number of signposts alerted him that his vehicle was too wide and too high. He managed for quite a while, but one of the curves finally turned out to be like Marklin's "Industriekreis" for him... Flapper He blocked the entire road for about five hours before being "saved" by a rescue vehicle and a long drive backwards, and his 30 passengers were forced to walk to the nearest railway station and to take the train from there. BigGrin
https://www.gr.ch/DE/ins...18/Seiten/201807172.aspx
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 23 July 2018 17:18:49(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
The Swedes might be better at playing football than the Swiss - but reading road signs doesn't seem to be among their prime skills. Wink

This driver of a Swedish tourist bus was determined to be the first to conquer the narrow and winding Albula pass road in Switzerland - although a number of signposts alerted him that his vehicle was too wide and too high. He managed for quite a while, but one of the curves finally turned out to be like Marklin's "Industriekreis" for him... Flapper He blocked the entire road for about five hours before being "saved" by a rescue vehicle and a long drive backwards, and his 30 passengers were forced to walk to the nearest railway station and to take the train from there. BigGrin
https://www.gr.ch/DE/ins...18/Seiten/201807172.aspx


Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Offline jvuye  
#3 Posted : 23 July 2018 22:08:47(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
The Swedes might be better at playing football than the Swiss - but reading road signs doesn't seem to be among their prime skills. Wink

This driver of a Swedish tourist bus was determined to be the first to conquer the narrow and winding Albula pass road in Switzerland - although a number of signposts alerted him that his vehicle was too wide and too high. He managed for quite a while, but one of the curves finally turned out to be like Marklin's "Industriekreis" for him... Flapper He blocked the entire road for about five hours before being "saved" by a rescue vehicle and a long drive backwards, and his 30 passengers were forced to walk to the nearest railway station and to take the train from there. BigGrin
https://www.gr.ch/DE/ins...18/Seiten/201807172.aspx


Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL



Funny!
I rode that pass on my e-bike, and I found that a challenging ride in itself.


Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline TEEWolf  
#4 Posted : 25 July 2018 00:23:56(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
The Swedes might be better at playing football than the Swiss - but reading road signs doesn't seem to be among their prime skills. Wink

This driver of a Swedish tourist bus was determined to be the first to conquer the narrow and winding Albula pass road in Switzerland - although a number of signposts alerted him that his vehicle was too wide and too high. He managed for quite a while, but one of the curves finally turned out to be like Marklin's "Industriekreis" for him... Flapper He blocked the entire road for about five hours before being "saved" by a rescue vehicle and a long drive backwards, and his 30 passengers were forced to walk to the nearest railway station and to take the train from there. BigGrin
https://www.gr.ch/DE/ins...18/Seiten/201807172.aspx


Well - yes - all right - nice story. But I thought the Swiss are speaking German. A nice accent or idiom ok. On the picture at the given source of the Kantonspolizei they are writing about a "Reisecar" - what the hell is a "Reisecar"? A "Travelauto"? A "Journeymobil"? Nothing at all, it is just and only a bus, for the British: a coach! Even in German it is only a "Bus". Flapper Laugh and never a "Reisecar"!

Really stupid this German of the Swiss police. A car is something else but never a bus.

Ahh - or have they been at Märklin in Göppingen before buying a central station?LOL LOL LOL
Offline mike c  
#5 Posted : 25 July 2018 00:44:26(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
A bus in Switzerland can be referred to as a car, as in Reisecar, Postcar, etc. The same way that a Bahnsteig is known as a Perron.

To each his own.

MfG

Mike C
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Offline TEEWolf  
#6 Posted : 25 July 2018 01:45:42(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
A bus in Switzerland can be referred to as a car, as in Reisecar, Postcar, etc. The same way that a Bahnsteig is known as a Perron.

To each his own.

MfG

Mike C


Sorry Mike

in Switzerland I always heard and read about a "Postauto" or "Postbus" but never about a "Postcar" and why not "Mailcar"? Because the English always talking about mail and I never heard that anybody used the word "Post" for mail in English - correct me if I am wrong.

Perron is French and this is one of the official languages in Switzerland. The word car is just and only an English word. English is not an official language in Switzerland or even in Germany, where we do have the same problem. The real poison is this language mixture of German "Reise" and English "car". 80% of the people do not understand - perhaps they guess - such stupid wording.

A car is even in English only a car or an automobile, never a bus. Please correct me if it is different.

A car in official German (usage by the police) is a Personenkraftwagen or PKW, but never a bus. A bus is a transportation vehicle for more than 9 people. In Germany you even need a special license for transporting more than 9 peolpe in any vehicle. Why do we have in languages different words for different objects if we do not use them? The result is always a misunderstanding.

mfg

TEEWolf
Offline mike c  
#7 Posted : 25 July 2018 05:49:16(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisebus

"Ein Reisebus (Schweizer Hochdeutsch Car, Reisecar oder Autocar) ist ein Omnibus, der nur über Sitzplätze verfügt."

I am guessing that this probably also comes from the French, where a Bus is also commonly referred to as a Autocar.
Matter of fact, the company running the Post bus services in Switzerland is called CarPostal.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Unholz  
#8 Posted : 25 July 2018 08:08:16(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

A car is even in English only a car or an automobile, never a bus. Please correct me if it is different.

A car in official German (usage by the police) is a Personenkraftwagen or PKW, but never a bus.


My dear man, I think you need a veeery long lesson in linguistics, cultural history - and perhaps also politeness? Angry I will refrain from details, since this is a (generally very friendly) train-related forum.

To make it as short as possible: If you have enjoyed only the basics of a thorough and diversified education, then you should know that there are at least four countries in Europe where German is spoken as an official language (Austria, Liechtenstein, Switzerland and - oh yes... - one other republic). In all these countries - and yes, even in Germany! - numerous regional varieties and dialects exist. Therefore, in Switzerland it has been a tradition for decades to call a "Reisebus" a Reisecar. This expression is absolutely correct in our language, as Mike C most rightly has pointed out.

On the contrary, if you use ancient expressions like "Bahnsteig", "Personenkraftwagen", "PKW" or "Omnibus" in Switzerland, you will simply not be understood, because these are most uncommon here. And if you like it or not, we also speak of a Postauto and certainly not a "Postbus".

And if you (sincerely? OhMyGod ) ask "Why do we have in languages different words for different objects if we do not use them?", then this question reveals that your mind evidently can't accept that there are many, many civilized cultures and languages even outside Germany. And thus yes indeed, we actually take the liberty of using words which you don't want to accept as allowable.

So instead of arrogantly calling the language of the Swiss police - our traditional Swiss German! - "stupid" Cursing, please take a moment and try to climb out of the self-centered nutshell you seem to be living in!

To end this discussion in your kind of German: "Habe fertig!!!".Mad
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Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 25 July 2018 08:38:28(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi, I always like stories like this, Sweden is only mentioned once, the incident completely ignored (except the author), and eventually we've entered a language education program whereas so called experts have their say what is used when and where.
I wish people would talk in their local dialect so nobody can understand what they are saying.

Stefan, thank you for sharing your Reisecar report

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline mike c  
#10 Posted : 25 July 2018 17:44:52(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I lived in Switzerland from 1971-72 and went to school while there. We learned Hochdeutsch in class and Schwyzerduutsch in the schoolyard.
Since then, there has been an attempt in Germany to create the equivalent of the "Academie Francaise" and to standardize the language, as least as far as Hochdeutsch is concerned.

I learned to say "Ich" pretty much as it is written. It used to be like that in some regions, while in others it was pronounced "Eeeeeccchh" or simply "Ick". Today, the standard is closer to "Eeeeeeccchh"

I remember travelling through Germany and going from "Guten Tag" (pronounced Guten Tak) to "Gruss Gott" to "Gruetzi" as I headed south into Switzerland.

That was part of the charm of the language.

For the record, nobody has to disembark and change vehicles when it goes from being an Omnibus to a Reisebus and ultimately to a Reisecar south of the Rhine. It remains the same vehicle, which probably explains why the Swedish driver got stuck on a hairpin curve.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 25 July 2018 21:00:07(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

A car is even in English only a car or an automobile, never a bus. Please correct me if it is different.


A railway coach can also be called a car in English based countries, including USA.

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Offline Webmaster  
#12 Posted : 25 July 2018 23:02:41(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Car in English derives from carriage... Which in turn derives from the old Viking term "kärra", which means a cart drawn by some pulling power... BigGrin

I mean, if we are into historical language speculations - better to get it right... Wink

Wagon, Wagen are also derived from the noble Northern Nordic Vikings too (vagn = kärra), as well as boat (boot in German) and so much else in the northern European languages...
The Vikings, the French, Germans & Romans have influenced a lot regarding the Saxon language we call "English" today...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline TEEWolf  
#13 Posted : 29 July 2018 16:14:55(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

A car is even in English only a car or an automobile, never a bus. Please correct me if it is different.

A car in official German (usage by the police) is a Personenkraftwagen or PKW, but never a bus.


My dear man, I think you need a veeery long lesson in linguistics, cultural history - and perhaps also politeness? Angry I will refrain from details, since this is a (generally very friendly) train-related forum.

To make it as short as possible: If you have enjoyed only the basics of a thorough and diversified education, then you should know that there are at least four countries in Europe where German is spoken as an official language (Austria, Liechtenstein, Switzerland and - oh yes... - one other republic). In all these countries - and yes, even in Germany! - numerous regional varieties and dialects exist. Therefore, in Switzerland it has been a tradition for decades to call a "Reisebus" a Reisecar. This expression is absolutely correct in our language, as Mike C most rightly has pointed out.

On the contrary, if you use ancient expressions like "Bahnsteig", "Personenkraftwagen", "PKW" or "Omnibus" in Switzerland, you will simply not be understood, because these are most uncommon here. And if you like it or not, we also speak of a Postauto and certainly not a "Postbus".

And if you (sincerely? OhMyGod ) ask "Why do we have in languages different words for different objects if we do not use them?", then this question reveals that your mind evidently can't accept that there are many, many civilized cultures and languages even outside Germany. And thus yes indeed, we actually take the liberty of using words which you don't want to accept as allowable.

So instead of arrogantly calling the language of the Swiss police - our traditional Swiss German! - "stupid" Cursing, please take a moment and try to climb out of the self-centered nutshell you seem to be living in!

To end this discussion in your kind of German: "Habe fertig!!!".Mad



Sorry not answering earlier. Sometimes I do have to work too. If you refer to my knowledge I have to say you forgot Luxembourg.

But yes indeed, you are right and I am wrong. But does it alter anything? A “Reisecar” is butchering 2 languages, English and German. Because one language does not know the word “Reise” and the other one does not know the word “car”. I cannot believe that the Swiss are at the same standard as the Germans. I thought they would know it better. Sorry.
Offline TEEWolf  
#14 Posted : 29 July 2018 16:24:33(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

A car is even in English only a car or an automobile, never a bus. Please correct me if it is different.


A railway coach can also be called a car in English based countries, including USA.



Thanks Alan.
It is correct and I agree. E.g. the Simba-Dickie-Group of Mr. Sieber sen. is producing a "Rutschfahrzeug". BigGrin Nobody in Germany using this word. Almost everybody always say it is a Bobby-Car.
Offline Purellum  
#15 Posted : 29 July 2018 18:16:31(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
E.g. the Simba-Dickie-Group of Mr. Sieber sen. is producing a "Rutschfahrzeug". BigGrin Nobody in Germany using this word.


For some strange reason Google finds 121.000 results on "Rutschfahrzeug", so if nobody in Germany uses that word, who is then using it ??

Google also finds 117.000 pages containing the word "Reisecar", so somehow and somewhere it must be used.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline mike c  
#16 Posted : 29 July 2018 19:11:53(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
As a Montrealer who lived in Switzerland for a while as a child, I guess I am pretty used to local use of words, be it franglais here or when I am travelling outside of Canada.
How is "Reisecar" butchering any languages. It is a term that Swiss use to refer to a motor coach and it is probably even a better descriptive than motor coach, since today, all coaches probably have motors (no more horses) and it describes the object as a travel coach, which is exactly what they do.

I would think that any Swiss, be it a German, a Romande, a Ticinese or a Rhaetian would understand what a Reisecar was, that a Quai or Perron was a Bahnsteig, that a Telefon was a Fernsprecher.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline fusionfaded  
#17 Posted : 30 July 2018 13:45:25(UTC)
fusionfaded

Switzerland   
Joined: 04/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

...
But yes indeed, you are right and I am wrong. But does it alter anything? A “Reisecar” is butchering 2 languages, English and German. Because one language does not know the word “Reise” and the other one does not know the word “car”. I cannot believe that the Swiss are at the same standard as the Germans. I thought they would know it better. Sorry.


"Car" itself is a Helvetism, coming from the french "Car" which is a synonym of "Autocar". There is absolutely no English in there. And since Swiss Standard German knows both "Reise" and "Car", we can create the compund word "Reisecar" without "butchering" two different languages.
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#18 Posted : 30 July 2018 17:12:12(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


in Switzerland I always heard and read about a "Postauto" or "Postbus" but never about a "Postcar" and why not "Mailcar"? Because the English always talking about mail and I never heard that anybody used the word "Post" for mail in English - correct me if I am wrong.


Here is the correction. Americans refer to "mail" where English people refer to the "post".

In British English speaking parts of the world, we use it for both a verb and a noun.

I will post the loco next week.

The loco is in the post.

I put the envelope in the post box outside the post office.

There are also Postage stamps.

Despite the american usage of "mail" they still do it at the "post office" and pay for postage.

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline mike c  
#19 Posted : 30 July 2018 17:23:56(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
Dale,

the original term for letters sent by this delivery service was "Postal Mail" which refered to mail that was posted.
Even though the Crown Corporation that handles this service in the UK is called Royal Mail, many people do refer to the service and to the product as the post.

In America, they gravitated more towards the word mail, except when referring to the Mail service, which is known as US Postal Service.
From there, we developed the term "going postal" which has nothing to do with Zipcodes.

I have never heard of anybody going mail.

Regards

Mike C

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