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Offline ocram63_uk  
#1 Posted : 15 June 2018 12:37:18(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
Good morning everyone,
this loco had a problem that I have tried to fix and maybe I didn't.
The engine wasn't running well, it started slowly then when it got to high speed it slowed down and started smoking and smelling of burnt material.

I replaced the brushes, the magnet, I had a spare one, I replaced the motorschild and at last even the rotor, which was the part really damaged.

Before attaching the motor back to the decoder PCB I tried it by attaching the transformer directly to the brushes and magnet poles, all went well, the engine sprung back to life and purred nicely again.

This done I attached the cables from the decoder PCB as they were previously, I took pictures of this, and placed the engine on the rolling test bench.

It starts running as I power on the EcoS and the speed knob doesn't do anything, at speed zero it just emits a strange noise.

Ideas ? I do not know what has happened, maybe the previous problem damaged the decoder?

Thank you
Marco
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 15 June 2018 15:23:39(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,115
Location: Paris, France
Hi Marco

It seems your motor is running fine but the electronic part is damaged and need replacing.
Your option are:
- to keep the engine and find an AC decoder (I am not too familiar with what is available). The result will be at best as before.
- to replace the motor and decoder using a 60750 (probably the cheapest with decent results
Cheers

Jean
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#3 Posted : 15 June 2018 16:15:45(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
Good morning everyone,
this loco had a problem that I have tried to fix and maybe I didn't.
The engine wasn't running well, it started slowly then when it got to high speed it slowed down and started smoking and smelling of burnt material.

I replaced the brushes, the magnet, I had a spare one, I replaced the motorschild and at last even the rotor, which was the part really damaged.

Before attaching the motor back to the decoder PCB I tried it by attaching the transformer directly to the brushes and magnet poles, all went well, the engine sprung back to life and purred nicely again.

This done I attached the cables from the decoder PCB as they were previously, I took pictures of this, and placed the engine on the rolling test bench.

It starts running as I power on the EcoS and the speed knob doesn't do anything, at speed zero it just emits a strange noise.

Ideas ? I do not know what has happened, maybe the previous problem damaged the decoder?

Thank you
Marco


Are the gears rolling smoothly? Could be hardened oil creating drag.
SBB Era 2-5
Offline jvuye  
#4 Posted : 16 June 2018 08:42:30(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
Good morning everyone,
this loco had a problem that I have tried to fix and maybe I didn't.
The engine wasn't running well, it started slowly then when it got to high speed it slowed down and started smoking and smelling of burnt material.

I replaced the brushes, the magnet, I had a spare one, I replaced the motorschild and at last even the rotor, which was the part really damaged.

Before attaching the motor back to the decoder PCB I tried it by attaching the transformer directly to the brushes and magnet poles, all went well, the engine sprung back to life and purred nicely again.

This done I attached the cables from the decoder PCB as they were previously, I took pictures of this, and placed the engine on the rolling test bench.

It starts running as I power on the EcoS and the speed knob doesn't do anything, at speed zero it just emits a strange noise.

Ideas ? I do not know what has happened, maybe the previous problem damaged the decoder?

Thank you
Marco


Chances are the decoder is toast...that's my hunch based on the "smell" ..Wink
Why it burned: probably a defective rotor in the motor either from short s on the commutator or a burned coil or two...
Problem is: those Delta decoders are not available anymore.

You have a couple of alternatives:

1) you can use this **excellent** aftermarket replacement http://luessi.ch/shop/ca...nfo.php?products_id=2302 , but you'have to convert the motor to a permanent magnet version (using a 60941 kit) and add a nice decoder (like an ESU Lokpilot. Nice and easy way to upgrade but you'll probably need to budget about €100 for the whole bit . That's my standard procedure to repair/upgrade these oldies.
Luessi Hobbyartikel ihas a good service, dependable, and usually delivers within 2 weeks of your order.

2) I probably have a (pre-owned) spare 34341 Delta printed circuit board left somewhere from my days as a Märklin Service station.
Will have to test it though.
And I do have the replacment rotor too if you need it.
Please PM me if you're interested.

Hope this help

Cheers

Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline ocram63_uk  
#5 Posted : 16 June 2018 11:43:38(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
Hi Jacques, all,
thank you for your replies. As a matter of fact the motor by itself runs smoothly, after having changed all the components I would be surprised it didn't hahaha

I have been looking at the Luessi website too a few minutes ago. Was surprised at all the PCBs they have for the same loco, why? couldn't tell the difference though.

I was planning to convert this engine to DCC dumping the Delta decoder but the Marklin repair shop told me that a new Marklin Digital decoder would cost a fortune.

I bought this loco months ago on ebay and so far I have rebuilt the engine.

This morning I tried to see where the problem was, again, and the PCB gets boiling hot after just a few seconds of the engine running. Definetely is the decoder!!

Will let you know how it goes :-)

Thank you
Marco

Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 16 June 2018 12:25:31(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
The Luessi PCB would be needed to allow the Swiss light changeover to work when you change the decoder.

Any decoder would work as long as you get the one with the right connector for the Luessi board you have, 21 pin, 8 pin, etc...

Marklin decoders are not all that much more expensive than equivalent decoders of other makes. The Marklin mfx decoders are comparable in price to the ESU ones.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline ocram63_uk  
#7 Posted : 16 June 2018 12:28:52(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
if I change the PCB with Luessi's I need also a permannent magnet, a decoder and nothing else.
Luessi has the permanent magnets, which one is the correct one ?
The one branded esu_51962 or the esu_51961 ?
Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 16 June 2018 12:36:01(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
if I change the PCB with Luessi's I need also a permannent magnet, a decoder and nothing else.
Luessi has the permanent magnets, which one is the correct one ?
The one branded esu_51962 or the esu_51961 ?


51962 is the correct magnet for a DCM motor
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline ocram63_uk  
#9 Posted : 18 June 2018 23:44:29(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
with this 'upgrade' would I necessarily need a 5 pole rotor or can I live with a 3 pole one just the same?
Thank you
Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 18 June 2018 23:49:14(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
with this 'upgrade' would I necessarily need a 5 pole rotor or can I live with a 3 pole one just the same?
Thank you


Leave the 3 pole armature. If you change to a 5 pole motor then you will need a different magnet as well. for this you would need the Marklin 60941 motor kit.

Edited by user 19 June 2018 12:37:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline ocram63_uk  
#11 Posted : 19 June 2018 10:59:26(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
Ray good morning,
thank you very much for this helpful hint.
It also allows me to save some extra money :-)
Can always buy the kit at a later stage!
Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 19 June 2018 12:39:30(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Oops, just corrected a typo in my last post. It should be 60941 not 60940!

Sorry about that!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline ocram63_uk  
#13 Posted : 22 June 2018 08:39:04(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
I've looked at the instructions on the PCB website, they say to solder the cables that come from the lights in the same positions as they are on the original PBC. is it really this simple? really hope so :-)
Offline jvuye  
#14 Posted : 22 June 2018 21:04:15(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
I've looked at the instructions on the PCB website, they say to solder the cables that come from the lights in the same positions as they are on the original PBC. is it really this simple? really hope so :-)


Yes it is.
Did it a couple of times .
Luessi's stuff is just smart and well thought of by someone who is involved in the hobby.
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline ocram63_uk  
#15 Posted : 26 July 2018 14:42:01(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
At last after a month and a couple of nasty emails to the seller the PCB and magnet have arrived !!! It took 2 days to arrive from the moment I got the email that said 'shipped'.

It is not the first time that this guy forgets to process my order, I have to remind him more than once about my shipment.

Anyway I can now complete the job :-)

Bye everyone
Offline jvuye  
#16 Posted : 26 July 2018 20:48:30(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
At last after a month and a couple of nasty emails to the seller the PCB and magnet have arrived !!! It took 2 days to arrive from the moment I got the email that said 'shipped'.

It is not the first time that this guy forgets to process my order, I have to remind him more than once about my shipment.

Anyway I can now complete the job :-)

Bye everyone


From my experience, I think Lûessi is a one-man operation.
But if response time is not the quickest, his products (so far for me...) have been 100% reliable and operated as advertised and the order and payment process is painless.
Good luck with the conversion, tell us how you fared!
Cheers
Jacques

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline ocram63_uk  
#17 Posted : 29 July 2018 10:51:48(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
PCB mounted and permanent magnet installed, it really was a quick job !!

I had to wipe the tip of the soldering iron a couple of times with Dremel's coper brush but all in all it worked fine and quickly, this is a Weller 15W iron I found in a box stashed away and the positive thing is that I can still find the tips BigGrin

So the motor is now a 3 pole rotor with permanent magnet.

Which decoder shall I use ?

At the model shop in town they have:
Gaugemaster's decoders but I do not know how they can cope with this type of motor and how many settings I can play with.
Hornby - No way I'm going to use these ever

Otherwise I can get an ESU or an Uhlenbrock online.

Which would you use ?

Have a nice sunday everyone
Offline kiwiAlan  
#18 Posted : 29 July 2018 12:20:19(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,103
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post

Which decoder shall I use ?

At the model shop in town they have:
Gaugemaster's decoders but I do not know how they can cope with this type of motor and how many settings I can play with.
Hornby - No way I'm going to use these ever

Otherwise I can get an ESU or an Uhlenbrock online.

Which would you use ?

Have a nice sunday everyone


I would suggest you go with an ESU. I would class Gaugemaster decoders on a similar planet to Hornby ones. Very long barge pole need between me and them, and it still wouldn't touch them. Laugh

Offline TEEWolf  
#19 Posted : 29 July 2018 18:01:28(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post

Which decoder shall I use ?

At the model shop in town they have:
Gaugemaster's decoders but I do not know how they can cope with this type of motor and how many settings I can play with.
Hornby - No way I'm going to use these ever

Otherwise I can get an ESU or an Uhlenbrock online.

Which would you use ?

Have a nice sunday everyone


I would suggest you go with an ESU. I would class Gaugemaster decoders on a similar planet to Hornby ones. Very long barge pole need between me and them, and it still wouldn't touch them. Laugh



Does you have any experience with the PIKO decoders too? Well although they have a similar price level as Märklin, but meanwhile understand mfx too and seems to me more flexibility as the Märklin ones.
Offline ocram63_uk  
#20 Posted : 30 July 2018 14:42:56(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
if the worst comes to the worst I could still order a 60760 kit which gives me permanent magnet and 5 pole rotor + decoder 'crappy'

All I'll have to do is wire the Motorola decoder to fit the DCC male plug BigGrin

Prices are equivalent to that of a single ESU LokPilot 4
Offline ocram63_uk  
#21 Posted : 06 August 2018 08:26:48(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
quick update.
Installed ESU LokPilot 4, it found the correct settings for the 3 pole motor automatically, cool stuff.
Unfortunately the lights do not work as expected. neither going forward nor backwards.

I soldered the cables exactly in the same position as they were on the Delta PCB, matched the instructions with Luessi's PCB, but nothing seems to work properly.

I have noticed in the lights menu of the decoder that there are quite a few settings I can use, but for this I will have to download the English manual first hahahaha

Luessi's PCB board I got is marked 8076,

Thank you and have a nice day
Marco
Offline ocram63_uk  
#22 Posted : 07 August 2018 11:48:14(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
SOLVED !!!!

I made a mistake in soldering one of the light's
cables and this fixed it partially.

Then using the EcoS control panel I had to configure how I wanted the lights to work with
the LokPilot 4 and everything fell into place
:-)

Engine runs smoothly, lights work properly

Off to Lisbon for a meeting now.
Have a nice rest of week
Marco
Offline jvuye  
#23 Posted : 07 August 2018 11:52:38(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
SOLVED !!!!

I made a mistake in soldering one of the light's
cables and this fixed it partially.

Then using the EcoS control panel I had to configure how I wanted the lights to work with
the LokPilot 4 and everything fell into place
:-)

Engine runs smoothly, lights work properly

Off to Lisbon for a meeting now.
Have a nice rest of week
Marco


Always good to get to resolution and the satisfaction to have created a vastly improved loco on your layout!ThumpUp Wink

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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