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Replacing my BR 86 - some basic loco questions
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Offline Robert Davies  
#1 Posted : 17 March 2011 12:11:19(UTC)
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Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
I have an old BR 86 (3096) which I am thinking about replacing. It is in poor shape having fallen 300 feet at some time (i.e. it fell off the table) and my digital conversion of it is not the greatest as for some reason it goes considerably faster backwards than forwards!

As far as I can see there is no BR 86 in current production (correct?). I have been looking on eBay and I can find BR 86's in the 2953x range (they must have been part of starter sets but are now being sold separately). 29532 seems to be the most modern (according to the Marklin Product Database).

However there is also 37860 and this is where I am really confused. There are 2 37860's on eBay at the moment. Both are pictured with correctly-numbered boxes and handbooks but one is 86 003 (Reichsbahn Era II) and the other is 86 167 (Bundesbahn Era III). Surely this can't be right - 2 different models with the same Marklin catalogue number?

The Marklin database shows 37860 as being 86 003 so what M-number is 86 167 and when does it date from?

Can anyone tell me the diffences between all these variants? The only difference that I have been able to spot (apart from liveries and cab numbers) is that the 2953x locos are shown as fx while 37860 is shown as mfx.

I would like a decent detailed digital model. Which one, if any, should I go for or should I wait for it to come round again on the production line?

As a subsidiary question, is there a database anywhere which shows loco types with their various Marklin numbers in some sort of chronological order? (For example, DR/DB BR 86 - 3096 -> 3696 -> 2953x -> 37860.)

Finally, I am also confused about the meaning of the various number sequences (30/34/36/37 etc). (I saw a very helpful post once which decoded this but I can't find it now!)

Confused of Kidderminster!! All advice gratefully received.

TIA.
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
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Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 17 March 2011 13:08:37(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,725
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Robert

30... locos had a 3 pole armature (small flat, large flat), reversing unit,
33... locos had a 3 pole armature, electronic reversing unit
34... locos as above
35... locos had a 5 pole drum armature, electronic reversing unit
36... locos with digital decoder (6080, 6081) 3 pole drum armature
37... locos with a 5 pole high efficiency motor with digital decoder 60901, 60921
39... locos with a C-Sine motor

mfx locos have a digital decoder with automatic recognition, you place the loco onto the track and it will register your loco automatically on your Mobil station 1, Mobile Station 2, Central Station 1 and 2.

fx locos are the same as 37... locos
Locos under the 30... catalogue numbers are less detailed as your 2953.. or a 37860.

mfx locos are only required if you have so many locos you can't remember each of their decoder number.
be aware, mfx locos are or have a closed protocol so you can't change CV's as with other decoders, e.g. ESU, Lenz, Zimo or other manufacturers and all functions are dedicated to a specific symbol on your digital station.


John


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Robert Davies  
#3 Posted : 17 March 2011 13:37:48(UTC)
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Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
"River6109" wrote:
30... locos had a 3 pole armature (small flat, large flat), reversing unit,
33... locos had a 3 pole armature, electronic reversing unit
34... locos as above
35... locos had a 5 pole drum armature, electronic reversing unit
36... locos with digital decoder (6080, 6081) 3 pole drum armature
37... locos with a 5 pole high efficiency motor with digital decoder 60901, 60921
39... locos with a C-Sine motor


Thanks for for the answer to that part of the puzzle. I have copied it into a new document so I won't forget it again!

Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
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Offline intruder  
#4 Posted : 17 March 2011 18:57:36(UTC)
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intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
As far as I can find in Märklin Archiv:

3096 and derivates was delivered in many different version from 1971 to 200?, both as a single locomotive and in sets.

These are some of them:

3096, Telex couplers and an electro-mechanical reversing unit, from 1971 to 1990 no. 86 173, 1990 to 1995 no. 86 128
3696 was a 3096 with a 6080 digital decoder, the decoder function was connected to the Telex couplers. The first version (85/86) had no. 86 740, later 86 173, from 1991 no. 86 128.

Other versions:
3100, a three locomotiv set, all grey, including a Br86 without Telex, 1987 to 1988, no. 86 090
3600, as 3100, but with the c80 digital decoder, 1987 to 1988

3112, ÖBB version of 3096, without Telex, 1971, no. 86 106
3113, as 3112, but with snow weathering

3396, a newer Br86 with electronic reversing unit (I think), without Telex, no. 86 260, 1992 and 1993
In 82/93 also special versions with Delta decoder

33961, with a Delta decoder and Telex couplers, 1997-?, no. 86 217
A special version in 99/00 with close couplers, no. 096 521-2, in train set 28508, digital in set 26508

2854, a train set with normal couplers and a electro-mechanical reversing unit, 1981 to 1985, no. 86 578

28831, a ÖBB set with a rotating snow plough, Delta decoder, no. 86 106
26831, like 28831 but with digital decoders

In some of the 2953? start sets you find a somewhat simpler locomotive, e.g without ladders under the drivers's cabin.
29530 and 29531 had no. 86 132.

There may be several more versions of the locomotive.

26831, ÖBB 86 106:
UserPostedImage

29530, DB 86 132:
UserPostedImage

3100, DRG 86 090, rebuilt with Telex and a 60902 decoder:
UserPostedImage
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 17 March 2011 19:21:56(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Here's another version:

From set 28508, this one comes with painted boiler bands and Era IV numbering (Br086). It is equipped from factory with a delta decoder and close couplers.

UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline intruder  
#6 Posted : 17 March 2011 21:53:14(UTC)
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intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Ray, has 28508 current conducting couplers?
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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Offline RayF  
#7 Posted : 17 March 2011 22:00:38(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: intruder Go to Quoted Post
Ray, has 28508 current conducting couplers?


Yes it has, but I have no lighting installed in the coaches. I have never got round to trying it out!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Robert Davies  
#8 Posted : 17 March 2011 23:34:58(UTC)
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Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
This is a wonderful place! Thanks for the replies and particularly for Intruder's helpful post.

I have made some progress now because I have finally found a picture of BR 86 167 - right here on this forum! (I should have known!)

Back in April 2010 trainbuff shared pictures of his locomotives with us - are you there trainbuff? - and these included 86 167. He told us that this came from the 29533 starter set but what threw me is that he has added some detailing and carried out a slight repaint, making it look much better and more like the current 37860.

Now that I know that, I have been back to eBay and I can confirm that, in spite of it being in a box numbered 37860, the loco for sale is in fact 29533 (no cab steps, and simple paint scheme). The fact that, when reading the rest of trainbuff's thread, I find that this model has a dodgy telex coupling design means that I shall definitely not be bidding.

I assume that all the 2953x BR 86's share this fault (29532 and 29533 are the most recent of the 2953x family) and 37860 is Era II which is not right for me, so my BR 86 replacement project is now officially on hold and I shall have to wait for it to reappear as a new model at some point in the future.

Thanks for the help. If anyone has an answer to my question about a chronological loco database, I would be interested to hear but apart from that, the case is closed!
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
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Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 18 March 2011 01:24:00(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Robert Davies Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for the help. If anyone has an answer to my question about a chronological loco database, I would be interested to hear but apart from that, the case is closed!


This is the closest I can think of:

http://www.bahn.hfkern.de/Maerklin/Menue.html
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline trainbuff  
#10 Posted : 18 March 2011 01:36:11(UTC)
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trainbuff


Joined: 26/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 507
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Glad I could help! That BR 86 is my first Marklin engine from my first starter set.

Originally Posted by: Robert Davies Go to Quoted Post
This is a wonderful place! Thanks for the replies and particularly for Intruder's helpful post.

I have made some progress now because I have finally found a picture of BR 86 167 - right here on this forum! (I should have known!)

Back in April 2010 trainbuff shared pictures of his locomotives with us - are you there trainbuff? - and these included 86 167. He told us that this came from the 29533 starter set but what threw me is that he has added some detailing and carried out a slight repaint, making it look much better and more like the current 37860.

Now that I know that, I have been back to eBay and I can confirm that, in spite of it being in a box numbered 37860, the loco for sale is in fact 29533 (no cab steps, and simple paint scheme). The fact that, when reading the rest of trainbuff's thread, I find that this model has a dodgy telex coupling design means that I shall definitely not be bidding.

I assume that all the 2953x BR 86's share this fault (29532 and 29533 are the most recent of the 2953x family) and 37860 is Era II which is not right for me, so my BR 86 replacement project is now officially on hold and I shall have to wait for it to reappear as a new model at some point in the future.

Thanks for the help. If anyone has an answer to my question about a chronological loco database, I would be interested to hear but apart from that, the case is closed!

My Loks: https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...aspx?g=posts&t=15896
My Layout: https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...aspx?g=posts&t=15251
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Offline Robert Davies  
#11 Posted : 18 March 2011 01:52:53(UTC)
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Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
RayPayas wrote:
This is the closest I can think of:

http://www.bahn.hfkern.de/Maerklin/Menue.html


Bingo - Exactly the thing! Many thanks.
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0)
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Offline Peluo  
#12 Posted : 14 June 2018 01:47:55(UTC)
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Peluo

Venezuela   
Joined: 20/12/2017(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Miranda, Chacao
The German website http://www.bahn.hfkern.de/Maerklin/Menue.html is outdated. :(
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Offline applor  
#13 Posted : 14 June 2018 04:22:26(UTC)
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applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,654
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I have the BR86 from Fleischmann as part of set 821952.
It was my only option as no one else sells an era3a BR86 - which is ridiculous considering Marklin sell multiple DRG and DB versions, it would be very easy to do 3a.

The detailing on the Fleischmann is quite excellent. I converted it to AC digital with sound, though unfortunately the motor is very noisyCrying

edit: model wiki typically lists all models available:
http://www.modellbau-wiki.de/wiki/BR_86
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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thanks 2 users liked this useful post by applor
Offline alistairiancampbell  
#14 Posted : 15 June 2018 03:06:08(UTC)
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alistairiancampbell


Joined: 16/11/2014(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Roco are coming out with a range of BR 86's from Era III and IV in both DB and DR - unfortunately, they have been pushed back to 2019, so if you're willing to wait for a bit (Like I am) then they look like they'd be well worth the investment
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