 Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC) Posts: 167 Location: England, St Ives
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Hello guys.
I have an eye for 2 sets. 29060 and 29074. The locos have mfx but I wonder what type on engines they have? I thought because of mfx they both will have at least 5 pole engines and run smoothly but after checking the M website I have doubts. It doesn't say anything about this type of engines. Can they have an old 3 poles?
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 Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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The 29060 set has a Br216 with old type DCM motor which, in this form, is going to be 5 pole. The 29074 is a new tooling Br74 equipped with a small open frame motor with flywheel and worm drive. This motor could well be 3 pole.
There is a danger with paying too much attention to the number of poles in the motor that we ignore the other properties of the drive system. In this case the "old" motor is 5 pole and the "new" motor is 3 pole. Because of the arrangement of the drive gears the loco with the 3 pole motor will probably be smoother and quieter than the loco with the 5 pole motor.
I have similar locos to the ones in both these sets and find them both quite satisfactory. I prefer the quieter properties of the newer tooling even though the motor is cheaper and possibly 3 pole. Others have different opinions. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 4 users liked this useful post by RayF
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 Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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I totally agree with Ray, most of my locos with the old 5 pole motor (aka "Coffee grinder") are very noisy up to the point that having sound on those (which I have) spoils your fun.
Too bad because some of them are really very nice.
Cheers
Jean |
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3 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC) Posts: 167 Location: England, St Ives
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Ok, I'm quite new to M but let me explain.
I had 216 with delta and an old 3 pole engine. it was terrible to run. it has to have at least half of the power on transformer to run. So I upgraded it with 60760 set (5 pole engine) and it runs waaay better now. So my thought was 5 pole is better and newer than 3. And now with those 2 sets I wonder will they run as an old delta or new 60760 like?
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,464 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Hics  Ok, I'm quite new to M but let me explain.
I had 216 with delta and an old 3 pole engine. it was terrible to run. it has to have at least half of the power on transformer to run. So I upgraded it with 60760 set (5 pole engine) and it runs waaay better now. So my thought was 5 pole is better and newer than 3. And now with those 2 sets I wonder will they run as an old delta or new 60760 like? These days the electronic control is more important than the number of poles on the motor. The electronics can control the motor much better than the old Delta decoders, which had no feedback from the motor.
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3 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC) Posts: 167 Location: England, St Ives
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan These days the electronic control is more important than the number of poles on the motor. The electronics can control the motor much better than the old Delta decoders, which had no feedback from the motor. So does it mean they will ride at least like my old/new 216 with 60760 in it? I just don't want to spend money on them and be disappointed.
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 Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC) Posts: 523 Location: Maryland, Baltimore
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Hics,
In the example you gave of the delta loco with the 3 pole motor, that motor was the 3 pole AC motor. The delta decoder works with the AC motor which in known for not running smoothly and in that circumstance, the 5 pole would be an upgrade. You have to compare the motor by the design and quality of the construction, not simply by the amount of poles on the armature. All thing being equal a 5 pole motor should give better performance over a 3 pole motor.
Also, as Ray pointed out, the design of the gears as well as the gear ratio all play a role in how smoothly the engine runs. You can have a great running motor, but combine it with a poorly design gearing and the overall running can still be rather poor. Hope this helps!
Chuck
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1 user liked this useful post by skeeterbuck
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Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC) Posts: 167 Location: England, St Ives
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Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Hics,
In the example you gave of the delta loco with the 3 pole motor, that motor was the 3 pole AC motor....
Chuck Ok, but. As I have never ride any of the engines from those 2 sets I actually don't know what they are like. You explained electronics etc. but what are they actually like? I rode delta and it was eghmm...disaster, I rode 60760 and it is much better. I also have 3 locos with can engine and they are even better to ride. So my question is where will you place them? I'm mostly interested on slow speed. I don't want them to buuuz and then go with half of the speed already.
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Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC) Posts: 523 Location: Maryland, Baltimore
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Originally Posted by: Hics Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Hics,
In the example you gave of the delta loco with the 3 pole motor, that motor was the 3 pole AC motor....
Chuck Ok, but. As I have never ride any of the engines from those 2 sets I actually don't know what they are like. You explained electronics etc. but what are they actually like? I rode delta and it was eghmm...disaster, I rode 60760 and it is much better. I also have 3 locos with can engine and they are even better to ride. So my question is where will you place them? I'm mostly interested on slow speed. I don't want them to buuuz and then go with half of the speed already. I can't answer that because I don't own either of them. My opinion of how they run at slow speed my differ from yours so in the end that's really no help to you. What are you using to control your locos? Are you operating in digital or analog format? Have you tried to locate a video of either of them? Maybe that would be a better help to you. Good luck! Chuck
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Originally Posted by: Hics Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Hics,
In the example you gave of the delta loco with the 3 pole motor, that motor was the 3 pole AC motor....
Chuck Ok, but. As I have never ride any of the engines from those 2 sets I actually don't know what they are like. You explained electronics etc. but what are they actually like? I rode delta and it was eghmm...disaster, I rode 60760 and it is much better. I also have 3 locos with can engine and they are even better to ride. So my question is where will you place them? I'm mostly interested on slow speed. I don't want them to buuuz and then go with half of the speed already. OK, no danger of either of those two locos running like a delta with a 3 pole AC motor. They will run as good as or better than your 60760 conversion. The Br74 which is fitted with a small motor with flywheel and worm drive will surprise you with how quiet and smooth it runs... |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC) Posts: 167 Location: England, St Ives
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Originally Posted by: RayF
OK, no danger of either of those two locos running like a delta with a 3 pole AC motor. They will run as good as or better than your 60760 conversion.
The Br74 which is fitted with a small motor with flywheel and worm drive will surprise you with how quiet and smooth it runs...
hmmm, this is what I wanted to hear. Music to my ears  Thanks Ray
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1 user liked this useful post by Hics
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Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC) Posts: 167 Location: England, St Ives
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Hello. A quick update on engines.
I only received BR74 with a new engine, but what a pleasure it is to run it! It is the quietest engine I have right now. I can only recommend it!!
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3 users liked this useful post by Hics
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