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Offline jvuye  
#1 Posted : 29 March 2018 22:10:34(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Hi everyone!

Just discovered two recent great quality videos of steam locos on the Gotthard line
This was happening last week end.
Note that both steamers are in the Märklin assortment! Wink Wink

Enjoy
Jacques



Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline SNAFU  
#2 Posted : 30 March 2018 00:39:57(UTC)
SNAFU

Australia   
Joined: 08/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 279
Location: Naracoorte, South Austrlia
Great videos. Very picturesque.

Is it common practice when having these steam days that an electric locomotive is assigned to the consist?
Is that to act as a pusher for when they have long trains and a safety in case the steam loco fails?
And why in some cases in the video we see the electric loco go from the rear of the train to be leading with the steam loco?

Just curious.
Tony
Tony
Curiosity hasn't killed this cat yet.
Offline Tom Jessop  
#3 Posted : 30 March 2018 01:22:27(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


Awesome but you can keep that white stuff away . Did all class 01 have Hungry boards fitted to the tenders ? I might post this up on a Ozzy train group site just to show us heathens down under what we are missing out on regarding tour trains & the willingness of rail companies to allow various unusual combinations of haulage power . Thanks Jvuye for posting these fabulous video's .

Cheers Tom in Oz .
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Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 30 March 2018 03:36:01(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,890
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: SNAFU Go to Quoted Post
Great videos. Very picturesque.

Is it common practice when having these steam days that an electric locomotive is assigned to the consist?
Is that to act as a pusher for when they have long trains and a safety in case the steam loco fails?
And why in some cases in the video we see the electric loco go from the rear of the train to be leading with the steam loco?

Just curious.
Tony


I presume that in many cases, the steam locomotive or classic electric at the front of these trains may not be equipped with up to date safety systems, so the locomotive at the rear serves to link to ETCS and other systems. In a few cases, the historic locomotive has suffered problems and the train was taken over by the other locomotive.

I am guessing that when the electric locomotive is moved to the front of the train, it is because when that locomotive is operating as lead traction, it is easier at the head rather than pushing from the tail.

Regards

Mike C

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Offline Bahner  
#5 Posted : 30 March 2018 04:28:33(UTC)
Bahner

United States   
Joined: 18/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: California, East Bay
Enjoyed these vids today. Thanks for posting!

Offline jvuye  
#6 Posted : 30 March 2018 09:25:41(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SNAFU Go to Quoted Post
Great videos. Very picturesque.

Is it common practice when having these steam days that an electric locomotive is assigned to the consist?
Is that to act as a pusher for when they have long trains and a safety in case the steam loco fails?
And why in some cases in the video we see the electric loco go from the rear of the train to be leading with the steam loco?

Just curious.
Tony


I presume that in many cases, the steam locomotive or classic electric at the front of these trains may not be equipped with up to date safety systems, so the locomotive at the rear serves to link to ETCS and other systems. In a few cases, the historic locomotive has suffered problems and the train was taken over by the other locomotive.

I am guessing that when the electric locomotive is moved to the front of the train, it is because when that locomotive is operating as lead traction, it is easier at the head rather than pushing from the tail.

Regards

Mike C


The addition of electrics in these circumstances have varied reasons.
First of all they are often there as "Angstlok" (anxiety) as old steamers have often small problems that cannot be solved on the road, as was the case with the C 5/6 that dissappeared after the first day.
Then as Mike noted, oldies are not equipped with the ECTS system, and the Re 420's seen in the videos are there to provide that functionality, but not just that.
It provides also the extra pulling/pushing effort needed to climb the hard 2.7% grade, and the extra regenerative electric braking power on the downhills.
Just to put things in perspective, à BR 01 in good condition will probably deliver somewhere between 2000 and 2700 hp. Not enough to pull these 12 coaches/ 600 tons + train up the ramp at 70 km/h! The Re 420, with its 6000 hp can do the job single handedly.
Same applies to à lesser extent to the Ae 4/7 and Re 4/4 I seen in these videos.
I also guess that placement front or rear of the electric helpers is the result of good judgment on where the best spot is to accomodate sometimes conflicting requirements of showing off the steamer in full splendor and good safe raiiroading practice.
Hope this answers some of your questions.
Cheers
Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 30 March 2018 16:07:28(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
As Jacques noted the steam locos don't have the pulling power of the electrics or diesels.

When I went on the "Berliner Express" in 2012 we had 03 1010 at the head of the train and a Br232 at the tail. There was two reasons for this, firstly they ended up with a maximum length train of 15 coaches, so it was a large heavy train, but with just the steam loco it couldn't maintain the required speed to maintain the required speed to keep up with the regular timetabled trains, so the Br232 was added to provide the necessary extra HP. It also produced a couple of times where the steam loco slowed down and the diesel hadn't been told to slacked off, so there was a bit of pushing from the back compressing the train and causing a few rattles. But the second loco also provided the 'safety factor' if the steam had problems.

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Offline Unholz  
#8 Posted : 31 March 2018 14:50:46(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,392
Location: Switzerland
Same Gotthard event, but a different video: https://www.youtube.com/...nue=25&v=-nxdkeyZRDY
BTW, instead of the steamer C 5/6 2969 mentioned in various postings and also in the videos, the loco B 3/4 1367 (model available from Liliput) was also used on some sections.
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Offline jvuye  
#9 Posted : 31 March 2018 16:56:37(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Same Gotthard event, but a different video: https://www.youtube.com/...nue=25&v=-nxdkeyZRDY
BTW, instead of the steamer C 5/6 2969 mentioned in various postings and also in the videos, the loco B 3/4 1367 (model available from Liliput) was also used on some sections.


This is fantastic!
Thank you Stefan!
I must say it makes me feel a little more optimistic about the future of the Historic Gotthard Line .
Clearly, the dense traffic that made it so interesting before the opening of the base tunnel is no longer there, but it now has become a form of "playground" to run older equipment for the enjoyment of train lovers.
The key now will be to schedule our visits to correspond with those type of events!
Cheers
Jacques


Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline DaleSchultz  
#10 Posted : 31 March 2018 18:06:33(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
great video!

thoughts:

1) Swiss rivers are mostly rocks
2) Buying real estate near the train tracks while they are constructing a new line elsewhere is probably a good strategy. The value will typically be lower due to the train noise, but that goes away in the short term!
3) Videographers should gently ask other photographers to switch off the camera shutter sounds!
4) Swiss e-lok drivers probably never thought they would have to breathe coal smoke and steam inside a tunnel!
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline jvuye  
#11 Posted : 31 March 2018 21:29:42(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
While on the subject...I came accross this one.
This is summertime , and someone knew how to fly a drone!!
Enjoy
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline fusionfaded  
#12 Posted : 31 March 2018 23:11:43(UTC)
fusionfaded

Switzerland   
Joined: 04/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post

I presume that in many cases, the steam locomotive or classic electric at the front of these trains may not be equipped with up to date safety systems, so the locomotive at the rear serves to link to ETCS and other systems. In a few cases, the historic locomotive has suffered problems and the train was taken over by the other locomotive.

I am guessing that when the electric locomotive is moved to the front of the train, it is because when that locomotive is operating as lead traction, it is easier at the head rather than pushing from the tail


The Locomotive at the rear of a train cannot serve as a "link" to ETCS. For ETCS to work, the ETCS-equiped locomotive has to be the leading locomotive. On the "old" Gotthard Line, ETCS isn't required, so the steamer gets the leading position.

But for the parts of the Gotthard line that belong to the new tunnel, you'll need ECTS L2, since the conventional signals were replaced by cab signaling and ETCS stop markers. On the north side, the part from Brunnen to Erstfeld is affected by this. There, you'll need the Re 420 as the leading locomotive.
Offline Thewolf  
#13 Posted : 01 April 2018 00:00:03(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
While on the subject...I came accross this one.
This is summertime , and someone knew how to fly a drone!!
Enjoy


Hi all,

Thanks to Jacques for these great videosCool

After consulting them, my wife and I decided that during the trip to my native country, we would spend another week in the Gotthard.

We've got a good mind to land in London.

From London to the Gotthard via my native country by train, Madame will realize how similar the use of the train in Europe is to the use of the plane in North America.

It'll be the trip when I officially retire.

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline kweekalot  
#14 Posted : 01 April 2018 01:02:07(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,437
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Same Gotthard event, but a different video: https://www.youtube.com/...nue=25&v=-nxdkeyZRDY
BTW, instead of the steamer C 5/6 2969 mentioned in various postings and also in the videos, the loco B 3/4 1367 (model available from Liliput) was also used on some sections.

This video is absolutely fantastic ! Woot Love
Thanks for sharing. ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp
Offline PJMärklin  
#15 Posted : 01 April 2018 07:01:54(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,210
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Same Gotthard event, but a different video: https://www.youtube.com/...nue=25&v=-nxdkeyZRDY
BTW, instead of the steamer C 5/6 2969 mentioned in various postings and also in the videos, the loco B 3/4 1367 (model available from Liliput) was also used on some sections.


What a magnificent video.

Thank you for posting - I enjoyed it very much.

PJ
Offline kiwiAlan  
#16 Posted : 01 April 2018 14:02:58(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Same Gotthard event, but a different video: https://www.youtube.com/...nue=25&v=-nxdkeyZRDY
BTW, instead of the steamer C 5/6 2969 mentioned in various postings and also in the videos, the loco B 3/4 1367 (model available from Liliput) was also used on some sections.


What a magnificent video.

Thank you for posting - I enjoyed it very much.

PJ


Agreed, having a footplate ride was real interesting.

The video Jacques posted after this one was also interesting, although I did feel he could have made better use of the drone.

But in the first video Jacques posted, I wondered what had gone wrong that the rescue train had to come. You see the 01 travelling light, then the rescue train appears going in the reverse direction on the same line, then appears hauling all the coaches with the Ae4/7 on the back end. The rescue train I'm assuming is the Swiss version of the German Tunnel Rescue Train.

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