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Offline 215.005  
#1 Posted : 04 February 2018 16:23:52(UTC)
215.005

Italy   
Joined: 04/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Piemonte
Hi all,

as you can see in my introductory post, I am a volounteer in our local railways museum. Some months ago a friend of us passed away (Crying) and his family donated the Museum his small Marklin layout and some rolling stock, including a (I suppose) 3035 E424.103 - the only electric loco of Italian State railways ever built by Marklin.

Now I am in charge of restoring the layout (done) and the locos (work in progress). Coming to the E424, I am trying to discover the true item number of the model, possibly a buid date, so that I can restore it, both mechanically and aesthetically.

By truth, the mechanical parts are almost OK; it is the exterior that is in very poor conditions - a true disaster! The body seems to have been repainted by hand by someone who did a very bad work: tons of paint, heavy brush marks, and - I suspect - also a big mistake. That's why I need to discover the original aspect of the model. Of course, no serial number can be found on the underside of thel loco frame.

Now to the model datation. It is an E424, so basically a 3035; but what version? likely one of the most recents, given that the motor is the drum collector one; but the underside of the powered bogie we can read:

MARKLIN MADE IN
(blank line)
GERMANY

Now, from my researches, the last 3035 were built in 1986, that is far before the Germany reunification, that was in 1989; on that models, in the same positions it can be read:

MARKLIN MADE IN
WESTERN
GERMANY

In the model I have, it seems the word "western" has been erased from moulds, hence the blank line. That could locate this unit beyond 1989, but at that time item 3035 was not produced anymore.

Then I guessed the model in my hands could be a 3162, which was built from 1988 to 1991; that model was painted with the "navetta" (=commuter) paint scheme: orange/grey. 3035 was painted with the "castano/Isabella" (two shades of brown) paint scheme, so it could justify the repaint of my loco, which actually is painted castano/Isabella. Could my friend have repainted the loco? Well... maybe yes! He liked "castano/Isabella", and actually hated the orange/grey paint scheme.

But... wait a moment! 3162 reproduced E424.192, and my unit is certainly E424.103, because the service number between the buffers is raised and seems have not been alterated in any way.

Moreover, in the interior of the loco body we can see leavings of brown sprayed painture - so one could believe that loco have always been two shades of brown. But the outside has surely been repainted - by brush, and not sprayed.

Moreover, E424 had in the middle of the body a luggage van, closed by two shutter doors; in the original 3035 these doors where painted silver: in my model all the body sides are brown - including the luggage shutters. This confirms the body has been (poorly) repainted, though.

So, everything tells this unit to be a 3035 built far beyond 1989 - could it be possible?

Can anyone help me understand?

thanks in adavance,

Gianfranco
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Offline Mark_1602  
#2 Posted : 04 February 2018 18:34:40(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hello and welcome to the forum!

You have to post some pictures of the loco, the instruction manual and the box. I can date it for you if I see detailed photos. What's especially important in this case is the front sides, the pantographs, the chassis seen from below (gearbox, pickup shoe, and wheels), as well as the printing codes on the instruction manual as well as the box (if it's an old one from the 1960s or early 1970s). Without photos I can't date it. If possible, you should open it and take a photo of the motor and the reversing unit as well.

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline 215.005  
#3 Posted : 04 February 2018 19:21:03(UTC)
215.005

Italy   
Joined: 04/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Piemonte
Hi Mark,

thank you for your quick answer. Sure I will take pictures of all loco details you've asked for and I will post here. I hope these will be sufficient, because I have no box and instruction manual. They are still in hands of my friend family, but I cannot ask they to search for the box: they simply will not do it.

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Offline 215.005  
#4 Posted : 05 February 2018 20:58:00(UTC)
215.005

Italy   
Joined: 04/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Piemonte
Hi all,

here I am again. I tried to portrait the model and details at my best: see here

https://www.flickr.com/gp/148936341@N05/29ijQ0

I uploaded the pictures to Flickr so that the shoots can be viewed full size and without consuming server space - if this is a concern.

Hope they are detailed enough to give you the informations you need.

Thanks again for your time, help and patience.

Gianfranco
Offline steventrain  
#5 Posted : 05 February 2018 22:21:44(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
I have 3035 date 1960.

Made in
Germany
(west)

The same on Most Bo-Bo such as 3060, 3034 etc in the 1960s.

UserPostedImage

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline 215.005  
#6 Posted : 05 February 2018 23:35:30(UTC)
215.005

Italy   
Joined: 04/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Piemonte
I see... Mine is diffent.

This one is almost identical to mine
UserPostedImage

Can you see the word "western" on the second line?

In my machine, in the same position there is a blank line
UserPostedImage

And the serial number is also missing...

But the first picture is from a 3162 item, built from 1988: in '88 the word "western" was still here... as the Berlin Wall was! LOL
My loco seems (pretends?) to be a 3035, built until 1986. Germany wasn't even nearly about to be rejoined... so why the word "western" is missing?
Offline Leitner  
#7 Posted : 06 February 2018 00:47:38(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
Made in "Western" Germany or Made in Germany" doesn't necessarily means it was made before or after 1990. I have items from the 90's which still has "Made in West Germany" and items from the 80's with "Made in Germany".

The model should be the 3035 and it looks like it was "repainted" most likely to cover the baggage van which fell out of use in the 90's if my memory is correct and was repainted also in the real thing.

The engine looks quite new.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Online kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 06 February 2018 13:21:10(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: 215.005 Go to Quoted Post

And the serial number is also missing...


The serial number signifies it is factory fitted with a decoder, could be Delta or one of the digital ones. I don't think electronic reverse units caused serial numbers to be affixed, but could be wrong.

So with no serial number your unit would have a mechanical reverse unit, unless someone has later fitted a decoder.
Offline Henrik Schütz  
#9 Posted : 06 February 2018 13:42:32(UTC)
Henrik Schütz

Sweden   
Joined: 04/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Stockholms Lan, Stockholm
Read all about serial numbers here!

www.marklin-users.net/fo...comotive-s-serial-number

Looks like All Engines built after 1982 have them.

Henrik Schütz
Offline Mark_1602  
#10 Posted : 07 February 2018 10:47:38(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: 215.005 Go to Quoted Post

My loco seems (pretends?) to be a 3035, built until 1986. Germany wasn't even nearly about to be rejoined... so why the word "western" is missing?


Hi,

You need to post all the photos I asked you to above, otherwise nobody can really date it, no matter what people tell you. The one picture you have shown us is not sufficient.

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 07 February 2018 12:37:49(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 215.005 Go to Quoted Post

My loco seems (pretends?) to be a 3035, built until 1986. Germany wasn't even nearly about to be rejoined... so why the word "western" is missing?


Hi,

You need to post all the photos I asked you to above, otherwise nobody can really date it, no matter what people tell you. The one picture you have shown us is not sufficient.

Best regards,

Mark


Hi Mark,

He posted more photos here:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/148936341@N05/29ijQ0

Is this enough for an accurate dating?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline 215.005  
#12 Posted : 07 February 2018 14:01:31(UTC)
215.005

Italy   
Joined: 04/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Piemonte
@all: thank you for that useful informations!

@Leitner: sure the model has been repainted. The luggage van was removed in the late Eighties-early Nineties, but since mid-Seventies its door was painted Isabella like the remaining of the loco sides, to save money. I am referring to the real loco, of course; AFAIK, 3035 has always been painted castano/Isabella with aluminium luggage van doors.

This is the main reason why I would like to identify the item number: so that I can restore the model original paint scheme.

@Henrik: I have to check my 1-Gauge BR80 from 5500 starter set, built 1969: I believe to remember a serial number in the underside, but I may be wrong.

Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 07 February 2018 16:52:14(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
One thing that I noticed is that the older models had MAERKLIN in larger letters and the more recent molds had maerklin in smaller italicized letters.
That is not a definite indication.

To me, based on the exterior, the model looks correct for the period around 1972, when I first saw one of these models in a shop.

One thing that I was wondering about is the possibility that this model may have a) been available as a kit which required the customer to assemble the locomotive out of the box or whether this might be a simplified version that may have been sold under the Primex label without the louvre door being painted silver?

This site may have some helpful photos and info (in Italian): https://www.mymarklin.co...-3035-e-424-fs-versioni/

Here is what I noted that stood out:

1) Black pantographs (suggests either 1980s or replacement)
2) Brown colored louvre doors
3) Metal gears and old lettering (suggest 1960s)
4) Motor suggests later version, but clear plastic is not what I expected

If you intend on restoring the locomotive and want a more prototypical result, I would recommend that you replace the Maerklin 7218 pantographs with the more suitable prototypical ones from Sommerfeldt.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Michael4  
#14 Posted : 07 February 2018 17:36:31(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
Are the darkened pantographs a latter addition? If not then according to Koll's they were introduced in 1981.

Offline 215.005  
#15 Posted : 07 February 2018 21:11:24(UTC)
215.005

Italy   
Joined: 04/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Piemonte
@Mike C: thanks, I knew the site you linked, but it solved only partially my doubts, so I looked for a second opinion. BTW according to that site, only 3035 Mk. 2 had the middle plastic gear; other series, even newer ones, had full metal gears.

The body has clearly been repainted by hand, and it was a poor job - I am going to repaint the model from scratch, to restore it in its original look.
Clear plastic motor cover: Here, page 10 last picture we can see a 3035, Mk. 4 with the same.

Pantographs: the original ones are damaged and are to be repaced; at this time I am in doubt between Sommerfeldt and Marklin 606 703 (i. e. spares for item 37240 - their last version for E424). Maybe Marklin spares are a more direct fit, considered that were intended to be installed exactly on this model, but I am unsure... Advices, ideas, opinions?

@Michael14: I don't know if the present pantograhs are a later addition; I believe not, because they are the same type the model would have been fitted from factory. Feeding the loco from overhead wire a pantograph could have been destroyed, but the other would have remained untouched, so only one should have been replaced. To hide the metal color differences, our unknown "painter" would have painted both pantographs signal red (which is the correct color for Italian locos pantoghraps) by the same logic with which he repainted the luggage van doors.
Offline 215.005  
#16 Posted : 07 February 2018 21:55:56(UTC)
215.005

Italy   
Joined: 04/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Piemonte
I am adding picture of model major rehaul; I have just added shoots of disassembly to my album on flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/148936341@N05/29ijQ0
Offline RayF  
#17 Posted : 08 February 2018 00:06:06(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: 215.005 Go to Quoted Post
I am adding picture of model major rehaul; I have just added shoots of disassembly to my album on flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/148936341@N05/29ijQ0



This link should work better:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/148936341@N05/29ijQ0
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline 215.005  
#18 Posted : 08 February 2018 00:27:20(UTC)
215.005

Italy   
Joined: 04/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Piemonte
OOPS! Sorry!

Thank you!
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Offline Mark_1602  
#19 Posted : 09 February 2018 07:09:47(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Gianfranco,

I've looked at the pictures you posted on flickr and consulted a few books and catalogs.

- From 1961, there was one plastic cogwheel in the gearbox of the 3035, but that was replaced by a metal one in the late 1970s, though I couldn't find out exactly when. Your loco does not have that plastic cogwheel, so it can't have been produced before the late 1970s. It's obviously not a very early version from 1960 without the plastic cogwheel because several other details as well as the motor would be different from what I see in your photos.

- I have a 3035.2 produced around 1973/1974, which still has a flat collector motor and a so-called silver pickup shoe (without any copper parts), but wheels with rounded flanges and type 8.1 pantographs. Yours has darkened type 8.3 pantographs, which were introduced in 1981 according to Koll. They really look used, so I guess they haven't been replaced. You can find the same type of pantographs on Ebay with a little patience.

- One official Märklin book I have says that the 3035 got a drum collector motor in 1979, so your loco can't have been produced before that date. Recently I sold a 3035.3 with type 8.2 (nickel) pantographs produced in 1979 or 1980 according to Koll's; it actually had a drum collector motor, so the Märklin book was right about that. As far as I can tell from the photo of the gearbox, it says 'made in Germany' in two lines, just like yours.

- The Mikado collector's catalog says the drum collector motor and the darkened pantographs were only introduced in 1982, but it must have got the year wrong. In 1982, your loco would have had a serial number at the bottom of the gearbox, so it was probably made in 1981. That's the most likely date as it had that motor and pantographs by then. Your loco is a 3035.4. The original paint scheme was identical to that of the 3035.2, in case you want to restore that.

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline 215.005  
#20 Posted : 12 February 2018 12:58:23(UTC)
215.005

Italy   
Joined: 04/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Piemonte
Thank You, Mark!!! What a super-complete analysis!!

Yes, I am going to restore the original paint scheme; by nowI have completed both mechanics and body disassembly and I am waiting for some spare parts to arrive from Maerklin; next weekend I am planning to remove old paint from the body, while I am trying to buy some real Castano and Isabella painture from a Lechler retailer - Lechler being the official Italian Railways painture manufacturer.

I will update with overhaul progress!

Greetings,

Gianfranco
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#21 Posted : 12 February 2018 15:32:36(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,863
Location: CA, USA
Originally Posted by: 215.005 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,


Gianfranco


Ciao Gianfranco,

Where is the museum? I spend a lot of time in piemonte and would love to visit!
SBB Era 2-5
Offline 215.005  
#22 Posted : 12 February 2018 18:58:47(UTC)
215.005

Italy   
Joined: 04/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Piemonte
Ciao!

Our museum is in Savigliano, about 50 Kms South of Torino: https://www.google.it/ma...+Ferroviario+Piemontese/@44.6408916,7.6618925,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x12cd510f87769165:0xbe9bf149101b599b!8m2!3d44.6408916!4d7.6640865

Full address is

Museo Ferroviario Piemontese
Via Coloira 7
12138 Savigliano CN

Our winter opening days are Saturday (10:00-12:30 & 14:30-17:30) and Sunday (14:30-17:30)
Summer opening days are Thursday (15:00-18:30) , Saturday & Sunday (10:00-12:30 & 15:00-18:30). Summer opening schedule starts with DST.

We also have our restoration workshop in Torino: for more informations write me at savigliano@museoferroviariopiemontese.it



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Offline Mark_1602  
#23 Posted : 12 February 2018 20:53:53(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Gianfranco,

I had another look at the Mikado catalog. It actually says that the 3035 was out of production in 1981, but was reintroduced in 1982. I can't verify that because I don't have a 1981 Märklin catalog, but I suppose some forum members have one at home and can tell us. In any case, your loco must have been produced around 1980. Before 1979, it would have had a small flat collector motor, and after 1981 there would have been a serial number.

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline Mark_1602  
#24 Posted : 13 February 2018 18:01:34(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Gianfranco,

I found out something new about the 3035 today. I have one more 3035 from the 1970s, and that one has a drum collector motor. The original green 'Service-Heft' printed in 1975 lists 3035 as Märklin loco with a drum collector, which means that Märklin changed the motor several years earlier than what the collectors' catalogs say!! My 3035 still has type 8.1 pantographs, whereas yours has type 9.2.

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline 215.005  
#25 Posted : 16 February 2018 13:48:35(UTC)
215.005

Italy   
Joined: 04/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Piemonte
Hi Mark,

thank you once more for your research!

In the meanwhile I have started reassembling the unit. For practical reasons, I have decided to convert the loco to digital - it has to be run both on analog and digital layouts of our museum: being digitalized, it can run everywhere.

For conversion I am using the 60941 five-pole, high efficiency motor conversion kit, in conjunction with a Zimo MX630 decoder. The latter because our digital layouts are running the Zimo system, and MX630 is our standard decoder - read: I found that MX630 is the decoder that runs best on our layout, and I am replacing all decoders in our locos with this one Cool.


I am updating the loco album with the work progress: https://www.flickr.com/gp/148936341@N05/37AeJ4
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