 Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Hi everyone  Currently I use two systems as a means of feedback system : - straight track element for remote control (all the familly xxx994) - reed switch (7555) I know very well that in the future... far or near... these two systems will give me problems. The current layout is a test layout . As a xxx94 rail becomes defective or a 7555, I'll replace the block feedback with a more reliable system. A few years ago I was advised to make a feedback system based on wheels contacts on the rail (I think) It consists of: -cut terminal strip B to isolate the rail. - use of the 74030 to isolate the block -connect a blue wire from terminal 0 to S88 - make a cut with a dremmel in one of the rails I found two photos   I need more information to build up the file and I already have a problem with the pedal of a 24994. I'm sure a lot of people here use this system. So could someone help me? I've lost all the information I had. This system has a specific name I think... I can't remember it. Thank you for your help Thewolf Edited by moderator 11 February 2018 06:25:19(UTC)
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Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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No one? no answers? oups...too early to get answers, probably. Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,226 Location: Montreal, QC
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If you are going to cut your track to create a situation where the wheelset of a locomotive, car or coach will activate the contact as the return triggers the circuit by the fact that current travels to the cut off rail via the wheels, you will have to make two cuts into the track section and then wire the contact to the intermediate section. Would this not have the same result? http://www.ajckids.com/products/Marklin/24995http://www.modellbahnkel...chalten/Kontaktgleis.htmOne other option would be to attach a magnet to say, the first coach of each train or consist. The magnet could pass over a sensor on the track, which would trigger the relay. It would probably be easier to mount the magnet on a car or coach than it would be to do so on a locomotive. Regards Mike C
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 Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC) Posts: 208 Location: Eslöv, Sweden
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Hi,
I use this way of feedbak on my layout. You don’t need to make cuts in the rail. Use the small red isolation pegs between the the track pieces instead. Also remember to use the ”diode trick” so both tracks can be ”grounded”. Normally I Divide each block (tracks between 2 switches) into 3 sections where each section is connected to S88. I use one track piece on each end as stop sections and join the track pieces between these 2 sections as the 3rd.
Example:
Switch-track piece-t r a c k P i e c e s-track piece-switch
S88-1 S88-2 S88-3
With this I can detect the entire block and be able to stop train accurately at the end sections.
Does it make sense?
I use Traincontroller to control my layout.
Br/Peder
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Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,316
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Originally Posted by: pederbc  Hi,
I use this way of feedbak on my layout. You don’t need to make cuts in the rail. Use the small red isolation pegs between the the track pieces instead. Also remember to use the ”diode trick” so both tracks can be ”grounded”. Normally I Divide each block (tracks between 2 switches) into 3 sections where each section is connected to S88. I use one track piece on each end as stop sections and join the track pieces between these 2 sections as the 3rd.
Example:
Switch-track piece-t r a c k P i e c e s-track piece-switch
S88-1 S88-2 S88-3
With this I can detect the entire block and be able to stop train accurately at the end sections.
Does it make sense?
I use Traincontroller to control my layout.
Br/Peder
Or try the ESU Detector 50094 it really works as advertised! Not once has it failed me on my new C track layout.
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Originally Posted by: pederbc Hi,
I use this way of feedbak on my layout. You don’t need to make cuts in the rail. Use the small red isolation pegs between the the track pieces instead. Also remember to use the ”diode trick” so both tracks can be ”grounded”. Normally I Divide each block (tracks between 2 switches) into 3 sections where each section is connected to S88. I use one track piece on each end as stop sections and join the track pieces between these 2 sections as the 3rd.
Example:
Switch-track piece-t r a c k P i e c e s-track piece-switch
S88-1 S88-2 S88-3
With this I can detect the entire block and be able to stop train accurately at the end sections.
Does it make sense?
I use Traincontroller to control my layout.
Br/Peder
Thank you Peder Speaking of diode, do you mean diode 1N4001 for example? If so, I am not a welding specialist Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Originally Posted by: michelvr Originally Posted by: pederbc Hi,
I use this way of feedbak on my layout. You don’t need to make cuts in the rail. Use the small red isolation pegs between the the track pieces instead. Also remember to use the ”diode trick” so both tracks can be ”grounded”. Normally I Divide each block (tracks between 2 switches) into 3 sections where each section is connected to S88. I use one track piece on each end as stop sections and join the track pieces between these 2 sections as the 3rd.
Example:
Switch-track piece-t r a c k P i e c e s-track piece-switch
S88-1 S88-2 S88-3
With this I can detect the entire block and be able to stop train accurately at the end sections.
Does it make sense?
I use Traincontroller to control my layout.
Br/Peder
Or try the ESU Detector 50094 it really works as advertised! Not once has it failed me on my new C track layout. Thank you Michel I already have the S88 Viesmann for the layout of the future. Why should I have to spend additional dollars? And what will I do with the equipment I have? Sell it for a used bread crust even if the boxes have never been opened? Even if it allows 16 contact rails, the price is exorbitant... almost $300 cad without taxes. I'm not buying this item. In the future layout as I will have more than 90 cantons, no need to say more. I am not the bank of Canada... unfortunately   But this is an excellent system  Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Originally Posted by: mike c If you are going to cut your track to create a situation where the wheelset of a locomotive, car or coach will activate the contact as the return triggers the circuit by the fact that current travels to the cut off rail via the wheels, you will have to make two cuts into the track section and then wire the contact to the intermediate section. Would this not have the same result? http://www.ajckids.com/products/Marklin/24995http://www.modellbahnkel...chalten/Kontaktgleis.htmOne other option would be to attach a magnet to say, the first coach of each train or consist. The magnet could pass over a sensor on the track, which would trigger the relay. It would probably be easier to mount the magnet on a car or coach than it would be to do so on a locomotive. Regards Mike C Thank you Mike Very interesting ...I will read carefully the PDF of the second link. This is very similar to what I was advised a few years ago on a forum in European French. At first glance, however, there is one thing I have to go into more detail in the dealer us rail 24995 manual. (ajckids) This is this :  I don't want to cut all the strips o of all the rails inside the blocks. That's what I understand.And moreover on their website, they write that the 24995 is often in backorder I'm going to try it out this week with a block of my invention and I'll let you know. Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
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Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,316
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Originally Posted by: Thewolf Originally Posted by: michelvr Originally Posted by: pederbc Hi,
I use this way of feedbak on my layout. You don’t need to make cuts in the rail. Use the small red isolation pegs between the the track pieces instead. Also remember to use the ”diode trick” so both tracks can be ”grounded”. Normally I Divide each block (tracks between 2 switches) into 3 sections where each section is connected to S88. I use one track piece on each end as stop sections and join the track pieces between these 2 sections as the 3rd.
Example:
Switch-track piece-t r a c k P i e c e s-track piece-switch
S88-1 S88-2 S88-3
With this I can detect the entire block and be able to stop train accurately at the end sections.
Does it make sense?
I use Traincontroller to control my layout.
Br/Peder
Or try the ESU Detector 50094 it really works as advertised! Not once has it failed me on my new C track layout. Thank you Michel I already have the S88 Viesmann for the layout of the future. Why should I have to spend additional dollars? And what will I do with the equipment I have? Sell it for a used bread crust even if the boxes have never been opened? Even if it allows 16 contact rails, the price is exorbitant... almost $300 cad without taxes. I'm not buying this item. In the future layout as I will have more than 90 cantons, no need to say more. I am not the bank of Canada... unfortunately But this is an excellent system Thewolf Bonjour Thewolf, Yes it is an excellent system! ESU detectors reminds me of Pierre Marcolini chocolates, the must haves! Pricey but it is only for my hobby and only the best will do! Marklin for the trains & ESU for controlling the trains! https://eu.marcolini.com
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Bonjour Thewolf, Yes it is an excellent system! ESU detectors reminds me of Pierre Marcolini chocolates, the must haves! Pricey but it is only for my hobby and only the best will do! Marklin for the trains & ESU for controlling the trains! https://eu.marcolini.com
Nichel,
Imagine the state of my bank: Pierre Marcolini for chocolates and Esu to control the trains... my wife kills me!
Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Originally Posted by: mike c If you are going to cut your track to create a situation where the wheelset of a locomotive, car or coach will activate the contact as the return triggers the circuit by the fact that current travels to the cut off rail via the wheels, you will have to make two cuts into the track section and then wire the contact to the intermediate section. Would this not have the same result? http://www.ajckids.com/products/Marklin/24995http://www.modellbahnkel...chalten/Kontaktgleis.htmOne other option would be to attach a magnet to say, the first coach of each train or consist. The magnet could pass over a sensor on the track, which would trigger the relay. It would probably be easier to mount the magnet on a car or coach than it would be to do so on a locomotive. Regards Mike C And for the curves, what's Marklin planning? So I'll have to make them myself. In that case, I have a better chance of making them all. Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Does anyone on this forum use 24995 as a means of feedback?
I have some questions to ask.
I put them here or I have to open a topic 24995 marklin
Thank you for your replies
Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
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Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,316
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Originally Posted by: Thewolf Bonjour Thewolf, Yes it is an excellent system! ESU detectors reminds me of Pierre Marcolini chocolates, the must haves! Pricey but it is only for my hobby and only the best will do! Marklin for the trains & ESU for controlling the trains! https://eu.marcolini.com Michel, Imagine the state of my bank: Pierre Marcolini for chocolates and Esu to control the trains... my wife kills me! Thewolf
Good morning Thewolf,
I can't help you with the bank. But I can tell you, your wife will love you for the Pierre Marcolini chocolates and not question the money spent on the hobby, trust me! Because whenever my wife comes downstairs and she see's something new and then asks me when did I buy that? I always say, “Oh that, I had that for a long time an I never took it out of the box until now.” Works all the time!    Michel
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 Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,472 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Thewolf - make a cut with a dremmel in one of the rails Why are you cutting the rail? Marklin provide insulators that you put over the contacts between the C track pieces for this purpose, and I have used small pieces of tubing for the same purpose.  You only need to insulate one contact, the one for the rail you wish to isolate to use as a contact. The picture shows two pieces (the second piece is on the pukos contact) to show the difference between unshrunk and slightly shrunk heat shrink tubing, which is what I happened to use, but any other thin walled tubing would suffice.
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: Thewolf - make a cut with a dremmel in one of the rails Why are you cutting the rail? Marklin provide insulators that you put over the contacts between the C track pieces for this purpose, and I have used small pieces of tubing for the same purpose. You only need to insulate one contact, the one for the rail you wish to isolate to use as a contact. The picture shows two pieces (the second piece is on the pukos contact) to show the difference between unshrunk and slightly shrunk heat shrink tubing, which is what I happened to use, but any other thin walled tubing would suffice. Why cut the rail? To reproduce this .  A question immediately appears to me: why would Marklin have proceeded in this way in 24995? I have been going through this forum and the French-speaking European forum for two days now, and every time we talk about doing this on the railways. I can even say that a lot of people are adept at making these rails themselves and that there are two ideologies as for the total isolation of the block or only the two entry rails. It's about a lost car issue. Cutting all tabs from terminal O to all block rails would be safer for lost cars. Cutting only the tongue of terminal O to the rails at the ends of the block would be less secure but detection would also work. Personally I don't see myself cutting all the tabs of terminal O at all the rails of the layout. It would drive you crazy. I'm building a mountain of information that in five years I won't be able to finish reading. You probably have another method I don't know of. It's like the diode Peder talks about. Some say it is necessary for small locos to prevent them from losing power or something like that and others say the diode is not necessary. I think the best solution for me and I have the time to do it (retired) is to build 3 blocks interspersed with 2 turnouts and connect everything to the S88, configure it all in Itrain apart from the layout and see how it works. If it works properly for this small set, everything will be correct for the future. There's no reason why this works for 3 blocks and not for 50 or even 100. But I am taking as much information as possible to obtain the best possible result. Changing a 24994 on top of a hidden station with wires or anywhere else... it's ggrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Have a nice day Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Hi everyone First of all I would like to say to kiwiAlan that I misunderstood what he meant... I was too busy researching the method I wanted to use. So kiwiAlan I'm sorry about that. You were right about the dremel hit. The 74030 and the dremel were two different ways Nevertheless, I would like to add, in my defence, that I sincerely thought I would receive much more succinct and detailed help. a lot more... how to say... jovial, I'd say. The news I found myself searching the web like a freak. I have searched at least 3 forums, including this one. I know how to proceed and that's the most important thing and of course Mike my friend Mike (Westend Trains) contributed to my solution.... as usual. Have a nice evening Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,472 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Thewolf Hi everyone First of all I would like to say to kiwiAlan that I misunderstood what he meant... I was too busy researching the method I wanted to use. So kiwiAlan I'm sorry about that. You were right about the dremel hit. The 74030 and the dremel were two different ways Nevertheless, I would like to add, in my defence, that I sincerely thought I would receive much more succinct and detailed help. a lot more... how to say... jovial, I'd say. The news I found myself searching the web like a freak. I have searched at least 3 forums, including this one. I know how to proceed and that's the most important thing and of course Mike my friend Mike (Westend Trains) contributed to my solution.... as usual. Have a nice evening Thewolf That's OK. I hadn't appreciated the 24995 tracks you were using had the cut rail, I was thinking you were referring to the other tracks that Marklin do with the slider actuated switch - so we were talking ta cross purposes. I think the 24995 tracks are made to go with the railway crossing, although why Marklin go to the extent of making them I don't know, when they provide the insulators which are much cheaper. Looking at the price of those tracks, they are expensive!
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: Thewolf Hi everyone First of all I would like to say to kiwiAlan that I misunderstood what he meant... I was too busy researching the method I wanted to use. So kiwiAlan I'm sorry about that. You were right about the dremel hit. The 74030 and the dremel were two different ways Nevertheless, I would like to add, in my defence, that I sincerely thought I would receive much more succinct and detailed help. a lot more... how to say... jovial, I'd say. The news I found myself searching the web like a freak. I have searched at least 3 forums, including this one. I know how to proceed and that's the most important thing and of course Mike my friend Mike (Westend Trains) contributed to my solution.... as usual. Have a nice evening Thewolf That's OK. I hadn't appreciated the 24995 tracks you were using had the cut rail, I was thinking you were referring to the other tracks that Marklin do with the slider actuated switch - so we were talking ta cross purposes. I think the 24995 tracks are made to go with the railway crossing, although why Marklin go to the extent of making them I don't know, when they provide the insulators which are much cheaper. Looking at the price of those tracks, they are expensive! kiwiAlan, actually, I won't use 24995. I'll make it myself and I won't have any problems with the curves and I'll also use the 74030. No dremel. The only thing I don't like is cutting the little bridges off all the tracks. ( I have 33 blocks and maybe 300 tracks,which makes 600 cuts )  Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Hi everyone I need to clarify a few things about my previous comments. As I said Mike helped me but this Sunday someone else (and it's not just anyone) clarified some of the small details. It took me a long time to understand these little details but once I understood them, I realized that I was completely out of touch with what Mike had explained to me. In French we say "' '' Je m'étais mélangé complètement les pinceaux ''. I misunderstood Mike's terms. The person who made me understand that I was on the wrong track is none other than Fabrice, a member of this forum. Thank you Fabrice I'll make a test block and if it works, I'll have a choice. Either I start my feedback again and I do it the way it should be done: I eliminate the 24X94 and reed contacts or I leave what is installed as it is and replace only the failures I know I'm going to choose the first option. Thewolf |
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