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Why do the digital conversion sets include the Chokes ? - Digital Conversions
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Offline Johnvr  
#1 Posted : 29 October 2017 19:42:20(UTC)
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Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi all,

I am interested to find out why the digital conversion sets include the Chokes ?

I don't really understand what their function is, so most of the time I just leave them out of the digital conversion.
They must serve a purpose for M to have included them, but so far I have not understood what their purpose is.
What am I missing here ?

Regards,BigGrin
John
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 29 October 2017 20:23:19(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Hi, John,

ESU also include the chokes in their conversion kits.

Some say it is to suppress radio interference, some say they protect the decoder. Some say locos work the same without them.

Sorry, no definite and authoritative answer from me. I install them when they are part of the kit or I have some in stock.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 29 October 2017 22:49:41(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Arcing from the motor brushes produce high frquency spikes which can damage the decoder. The function of the chokes is to suppress these spikes.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline sudibarba  
#4 Posted : 31 October 2017 04:00:58(UTC)
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sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
I still think they are for radio suppression. The decoders have some built in protection. Old topic no new answer.
I have never had an ESU decoder failure and never put the chokes on. At one time, some of the ESU conversion
kits did not include chokes. I buy decoders and magnets, not kits, so am not sure about now.
Eric
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Offline sjbartels  
#5 Posted : 31 October 2017 04:41:49(UTC)
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sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
The chokes, for the radio interference, are an FAA requirement in the United States. Guess they include them with every set. They are required to be installed on all of my conversions, hence that little statement at the back of the manuals about the US
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
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Offline sudibarba  
#6 Posted : 02 November 2017 03:32:12(UTC)
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sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
The chokes, for the radio interference, are an FAA requirement in the United States. Guess they include them with every set. They are required to be installed on all of my conversions, hence that little statement at the back of the manuals about the US


FAA requirement ?
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Offline Crazy Harry  
#7 Posted : 02 November 2017 03:54:26(UTC)
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Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: sudibarba Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
The chokes, for the radio interference, are an FAA requirement in the United States. Guess they include them with every set. They are required to be installed on all of my conversions, hence that little statement at the back of the manuals about the US


FAA requirement ?


I think he meant FCC - Federal Communications Commission
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 02 November 2017 08:11:15(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
They are required to be installed on all of my conversions, hence that little statement at the back of the manuals about the US


This is the statement from current loco manuals (Challenger #39911 in this case):
Quote:
Due to different legal requirements regarding electro-magnetic compatibility, this item may
be used in the USA only after separate certification for FCC compliance and an adjustment if
necessary.
Use in the USA without this certification is not permitted and absolves us of any liability. If
you should want such certification to be done, please contact us – also due to the additional
costs incurred for this.


It seems FCC approval has become too expensive for Märklin. But there surely are similar EU requirements.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline sjbartels  
#9 Posted : 06 November 2017 05:58:22(UTC)
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sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sudibarba Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
The chokes, for the radio interference, are an FAA requirement in the United States. Guess they include them with every set. They are required to be installed on all of my conversions, hence that little statement at the back of the manuals about the US


FAA requirement ?


I think he meant FCC - Federal Communications Commission


Yes, my bad... I meant FCC... I spend way too much time at airports and have FAA on the brain!!!!
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
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Offline db ice3  
#10 Posted : 24 November 2017 11:36:40(UTC)
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db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
radio interference suppression?

okies maybe in the 1960s this may have been an issue - radio today - isnt it almost ( like tv ) all digital with only a handful of exceptions if you live in remote areas - in which case its only going to affect the radio in the kitchen - not the next closest town!.

i remember years ago, my hornby trainset would cause crackling and buzzing on the kitchen radio - but the kitchen was downstairs directly under my bedroom!. the house next door wasnt affected!. ( and the class 47 loco with ringfield motor had a choke / interference suppressor! )

id love to try an experiment now with same setup - but we dont live there any more! (-
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Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 24 November 2017 12:53:38(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post
radio interference suppression?

okies maybe in the 1960s this may have been an issue - radio today - isnt it almost ( like tv ) all digital with only a handful of exceptions if you live in remote areas - in which case its only going to affect the radio in the kitchen - not the next closest town!.

i remember years ago, my hornby trainset would cause crackling and buzzing on the kitchen radio - but the kitchen was downstairs directly under my bedroom!. the house next door wasnt affected!. ( and the class 47 loco with ringfield motor had a choke / interference suppressor! )

id love to try an experiment now with same setup - but we dont live there any more! (-



Yes I agree.

The chokes (The big black ones) that were used in old analogue locos were definitely for RF interference suppression. I believe the small ones included in today's digital models are more for protection of the decoder from voltage spikes caused by arcing in the motor.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 24 November 2017 17:35:10(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post
isnt it almost ( like tv ) all digital with only a handful of exceptions
Digital TV (DVB-T) uses the same frequencies as analogue TV. Digital transmission ignores small disturbances that would have led to visible disturbances with analogue TV. But stronger disturbances have visible and audible impact.

In metropolitan areas, DVB-T is supposed to work with tiny in-room antennas.

Radio-frequency interference is the old term, electromagnetic interference and electromagnetic compatibility are the new terms.
https://en.wikipedia.org...tromagnetic_interference

You surely do not want your MRR to interfere with digital Police radio, GSM, or heart pacemakers (to name just a few). At least not if you live in a built-up area.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline sudibarba  
#13 Posted : 28 November 2017 04:49:25(UTC)
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sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post
radio interference suppression?

okies maybe in the 1960s this may have been an issue - radio today - isnt it almost ( like tv ) all digital with only a handful of exceptions if you live in remote areas - in which case its only going to affect the radio in the kitchen - not the next closest town!.

i remember years ago, my hornby trainset would cause crackling and buzzing on the kitchen radio - but the kitchen was downstairs directly under my bedroom!. the house next door wasnt affected!. ( and the class 47 loco with ringfield motor had a choke / interference suppressor! )

id love to try an experiment now with same setup - but we dont live there any more! (-



Yes I agree.

The chokes (The big black ones) that were used in old analogue locos were definitely for RF interference suppression. I believe the small ones included in today's digital models are more for protection of the decoder from voltage spikes caused by arcing in the motor.


I guess someone need to call Marklin. I have over 50 ESU conversions without chokes and no failures.
Eric
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Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 03 December 2017 16:56:32(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post
isnt it almost ( like tv ) all digital with only a handful of exceptions
WLAN is digital.
More and more people use WLAN to control their trains. With this setup, you have trains, WLAN sender and WLAN receiver in the same room - would be fatal if locos would disturb the WLAN transmission.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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