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Offline cookee_nz  
#1 Posted : 22 November 2017 00:15:40(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
At our recent "Railex" Show last weekend, was a seller offering a number of vintage items - he had previously run a second-hand business but was closed for several years and I had not seen him for some time. The items he was offering were from his personal collection and there were certainly some desirable tin-plate coaches but I feel a little over-priced. He admitted freely to being out of touch so had based his prices on ebay. I mean they were not ridiculously overpriced and he was quite willing to negotiate but I decided to restrain myself except for what did catch my eye.

He had some unassembled wagon kits, and although I have managed to avoid the lure of these for around 35 years of collecting (often because of price) I felt these ones calling to me.

My query as to price was met with "oh, around $25 each, I could do them for $20" There were 4, two the same and two further ones. What the heck, I offered $50 for the three I wanted and this was accepted much to my delight. 4900, 4910 & 4911. Sweet!! BigGrin

The problem now is that this is the thin edge of the wedge, and of course I will now have to obtain the rest. As is often the case with collecting to a theme, you might obtain several, or even most of them at a reasonable price, especially if you are patient - something that I am fortunately good at when it comes to my hobby. But there will also be the one or two elusive last ones that prove the most expensive to obtain. Of course I don't HAVE to have a complete set, it would just be 'nice' ThumpUp

They are not pristine (the boxes mainly) but still I think very good condition and absolutely worth the average $16 each paid. I really should have got the 4th one but I had to borrow as it was from a fellow club-member because the seller did not have eftpos and the ATM was too far away for me to walk to on the zimmer-frame!!

So here are the three kits below, I am very happy with them. A quick search on ebay shows few un-assembled ones available, plenty of already-built ones with box but that's not the same.

But the acquisition of these has led me to another topic to follow on and it concerns knowing whether an item that you may have in your collection was a factory assembled item or from a kit-set? (Wagons and Loco's)

An immediate giveaway on all items is to check the Coupling. If it has a split-pin (cotter pin) holding it together, AND securing it to the chassis, it is almost certainly from a kit. Factory assembled items use a solid pin with a flattened end to prevent the pin falling out.

Other items include the Plastic buffer - these are meant to be secured by "inserting into the holes and melting the ends with a heated screwdriver" - ??? Well probably not as precision as would be done in the factory, especially if being assembled by a child. Then again, this was the late 50's early 60's. You could get away with telling kids to burn themselves, it was like a right of passage.

Any Decals (water-slide transfers), these can be quite tricky to position accurately, and with nothing to guide you, the placement may be quite hit and miss, especially on something like a Tank Wagon where the "BP" or other transfer would be applied (I assume) in the factory by machine or at least a jig of some sort and would tend to be fairly uniform in their placement.

If you have a split-pin, loose or missing buffers, and badly placed decals, you probably have what started out as a kit. I decided to check my own rolling stock and sure enough, a Boxcar (Kuhlwagon) with split pins. So I should really update my database for that item to change the number from 40xx to 49xx. I may have one or two more, this was just from a quick check.

I'll continue regarding the Loco's in a follow-on posting. Got some detail on those also. Time now to go have some rest.

49xxKits.jpg

Factory assembled on the left, kit with split-pins on the right. Very obvious

49xx-SplitPins.jpg

Edited by user 22 November 2017 03:50:40(UTC)  | Reason: Typos

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Pmare4  
#2 Posted : 22 November 2017 03:25:39(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Hi Cookee,

I have a couple of kit wagons as well - a 4903 and a 4910 if I remember correctly. The 4910 is in a blue box and when I purchased it the seller told me he had assembled it a couple of days before! Cursing

Later on this week I'll scan the instructions for the kits and upload them to the forum.

regards
Peter
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline MalinAC  
#3 Posted : 22 November 2017 08:18:20(UTC)
MalinAC

Ireland   
Joined: 29/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: DONEGAL, CARNDONAGH
I have a few #48159 insider 2009 Ford wagens in kit form. I put 3 together and still have one in kit form. I had terrible trouble with the split pins holding on the couplers. I could not get them closed enough to stop the couplers hanging down and catching the track.In the end I just got very small nuts and bolts and now they stay at correct height. Eddie
Offline cookee_nz  
#4 Posted : 22 November 2017 10:16:16(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
And now onto the Loco's - your chances of having a Wagon or Loco built from a kit are much increased if you acquired the item without the original box.

The Loco's needed to avoid the one obstacle that many modellers would face, particularly children - and that was the required soldering of the wires, * particularly * onto the reverse unit and field magnet points. These solder points melt very easily even under an experienced hand so Märklin made a very wise decision to pre-solder and use connectors. It does make the internal wiring a little more bulky, but a lot easier for fumbling fingers (like mine are right now with this GBS affliction).

The Loco kit would be supplied in a much larger box than an assembled model, you would get the body, the chassis, the motor & bogie, reverse unit etc.

In particular, the motor, reverse unit and lights would all have suitable length of colour-coded wire already attached - all the home-assembler had to do was to join those wires with the correct matching connector.

I have two Loco's that came from kits.

The first is a 3021 V200 Diesel, or more correctly, 3921, pictures below.

I remembered I also have a 3037 E41 Loco which was a kit, but many years ago I installed a C80 decoder so the original connector wiring is now gone.

Both of these Loco's were acquired second-hand at various times without boxes and I was not at first aware they were kit models. I am sure some of you may also have Loco's and Wagon's without boxes purchased or given to you along the way and this info may help you note them accordingly (if you are so inclined). Really makes no difference other than being of interest Blink

The actual contents of the kits apart from the coupling split-pin and the wiring connectors rather than all-soldered are identical to the assembled models. If they had produced them with a different road number for example, that would have increased their collectibility much more.

What I should really do now is locate a 3921 original box and 'deconstruct' my 3921 back to how it was - maybe, maybe not - I'd like a box anyway.

Overall chassis...

3921-Chassis.JPG

Connectors...

3921-Connectors.JPG

Coupling split-pin...

3921-Pin.JPG
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Markus Schild  
#5 Posted : 22 November 2017 10:31:50(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Cookee,

Interesting topic. Not very known are the Swedish boxes for the construction-sets. I only own this 4900 (BP) empty box. I don't know whether there are also other translated boxes.

UserPostedImage

Regards

Markus
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Offline Pmare4  
#6 Posted : 22 November 2017 10:57:36(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Hi Markus,

As well as some normal wagons with different boxes, in the 60s, Marklin produced 4 tank wagon kits (4925, 4926, 4927 and 4928) as export models for Sweden only. Because of this the boxes and instructions only included Swedish text. The boxes for these wagons had a print code of 3000 pieces each.

regards
Peter
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline Markus Schild  
#7 Posted : 22 November 2017 10:58:52(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
A
The actual contents of the kits apart from the coupling split-pin and the wiring connectors rather than all-soldered are identical to the assembled models. If they had produced them with a different road number for example, that would have increased their collectibility much more.



Hi Cookee,

There was one other small difference: The kit came without the light-bulbs. These must be bought separately.
Märklin not only reduced the costs by the bulbs itself. That was also a tax-issue. Until 1990 every small electric bulb was taxed 0.10 DM in Germany.

Correction: The tax was ceased for small bulbs in September 1959. But the 3921 was already in the shops.

Regards

Markus

In German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuchtmittelsteuer
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Offline cookee_nz  
#8 Posted : 22 November 2017 23:22:10(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
A
The actual contents of the kits apart from the coupling split-pin and the wiring connectors rather than all-soldered are identical to the assembled models. If they had produced them with a different road number for example, that would have increased their collectibility much more.



Hi Cookee,

There was one other small difference: The kit came without the light-bulbs. These must be bought separately.
Märklin not only reduced the costs by the bulbs itself. That was also a tax-issue. Until 1990 every small electric bulb was taxed 0.10 DM in Germany.

Correction: The tax was ceased for small bulbs in September 1959. But the 3921 was already in the shops.

Regards

Markus

In German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuchtmittelsteuer



Hi Markus, that is interesting, I guess if it helped keep the price down, although you would hope that the dealer would always remember to offer the required light-bulbs to avoid disappointment during assembly.

Cheers
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Br502362  
#9 Posted : 23 November 2017 09:48:36(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 680
Location: Finland
Hi,

I managed to buy three 4905 kits form e(vil)Bay Wink a few years ago.
All were mint in red boxes. I paid 15€ each.

As I think back my father and uncle bought 49xx kits in the 60's from Sweden as my uncle worked there at Jaakko Pöyry and Märklin items were cheaper there.
4900, 4903, 4908, 4909, 4910, 4917 and 4926 as well as 3921 V200 and 3937 E41 locomotives.

I would like to see more kits in Märklin range today Smile

Here is my 3937 in christmas 1964.

3937.jpg


Cheers

Åke
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Offline EMD_GP7  
#10 Posted : 23 November 2017 16:40:23(UTC)
EMD_GP7


Joined: 23/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: U.K. Midlands
Hi all.
I had some kit wagons in my teens but never a Loco so I found these recently.

UserPostedImage

[url=https://flic.kr/p/21L96Dy]UserPostedImage


If I find some wagon kits at the right price I may add them to my collection.
Regards, Colin.
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