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Offline PJMärklin  
#1 Posted : 21 October 2017 08:55:30(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Hi Märklineers,

A past post raised my concerns for the batteries in my two 6043 memory controllers (subject of next post)
I thus needed to open the units to check the batteries.

Another past post :

https://www.marklin-user..._postsm300248_posts.aspx

showed how to do this by drilling out the plastic plugs and then replacing them with plastic screws taped into the base holes.


That is how I removed the lugs from my first unit, but in starting to do same on the second unit I stumbled upon another way:

First drill a very small hole in the plug :


UserPostedImage


Then screw in a small screw (such as a K or C track fastening screw) :


UserPostedImage


Then the plug can be extracted (it "clicks" out):


UserPostedImage


thus :


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


You then have the original plugs to click back into place when closing the unit:


UserPostedImage


Regards,

PJ
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Offline PJMärklin  
#2 Posted : 21 October 2017 09:20:39(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Hello again Märklineers,

As I noted in my previous post, a past post raised my concerns for the batteries in my two 6043 memory controllers (which I think I bought new in the mid to late 1990's and still work fine) :

https://www.marklin-user...79findunread-6043-Memory

I thus needed to open the units to check the batteries and my previous post shows another way of opening the units.

Interestingly the construction and layout of the two 6043's interior was different :


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


but I did not feel the batteries were showing any degradation:


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


They are soldered into the circuit board at two points and look able to be replaced readily.

Whilst they are readily available :

http://www.radwell.com/B...0BATTERIES/53010-703-012 ,

I am reluctant to replace them given the seemingly good appearance of the batteries. Perhaps just check them from time to time now the units are readily opened?Unsure

Any comments or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated !

Regards,

PJ

Offline cookee_nz  
#3 Posted : 21 October 2017 10:24:03(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Sooner or later, those batteries WILL leak. It is inherent in their design.

Refer my own post a couple of years ago on my 6041 unit...

https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/yaf_postst33209_6041-Switchboard---corroded-battery-check.aspx

The problem for you is that when they do, it may be several months or longer before the resulting corrosion becomes apparent, by which time it will already have damaged the PCB, sometimes quite severely.

My recommendation is that you remove the battery, run two feeder wires Red&Black (or similar for ease of correct polarity) from the solder points, mount the battery upside down with either an adhesive mounting pad, adhesive Velcro, or just hot glue or double-sided tape.

Solder the two feeder wires back onto the relevant terminals now poking out and problem solved.

But still check from time to time because battery acid will migrate along the feeder wires.

I have seen many PCB's in a range of products badly damaged by this type of poor design.

Good that you took the time to check yours and for the very relevant photos.

Cookee

Edited by user 22 October 2017 01:32:08(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed broken link

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline xxup  
#4 Posted : 21 October 2017 10:53:12(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
I can understand why a 6043 would have a battery, but does a 6040 or the 6021? What other ones have a battery?
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 21 October 2017 12:41:15(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I can understand why a 6043 would have a battery, but does a 6040 or the 6021? What other ones have a battery?


Hi Adrian,

Any of those older devices that need to 'remember' their last powered state will need some form of backup, so yes the 6040 & 6041 to allow correct accessory status indication (assuming the mechanical state has not changed of course - it can't check that)

Not sure about the 6021, I'm fairly sure the 6022/23 does not have one, but I would have to check.

I don't recall seeing this type of battery in my Intellibox either, but it does have backup for quite a period.

Will have to check that also :-)
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Rwill  
#6 Posted : 21 October 2017 12:45:50(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
I bought a 6043 memory last Xmas day on EBay for twenty five quid from a nice lady in deepest France who didn't have a clue what it was -took the risk on the battery state as a gamble. It arrived and worked straight out of the box and has done since including the episode where I spilt tea on it (and the 6021). I guess if it leaked and packed up tomorrow I would take another gamble. Poor old Rails of Sheffield have been trying to sell one for months if not years on eBay for £18 or best offer!
Offline cookee_nz  
#7 Posted : 21 October 2017 23:55:46(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
I bought a 6043 memory last Xmas day on EBay for twenty five quid from a nice lady in deepest France who didn't have a clue what it was -took the risk on the battery state as a gamble. It arrived and worked straight out of the box and has done since including the episode where I spilt tea on it (and the 6021). I guess if it leaked and packed up tomorrow I would take another gamble. Poor old Rails of Sheffield have been trying to sell one for months if not years on eBay for £18 or best offer!


If you have the capability, I would still recommend doing what I suggested anyway, seperate the battery from the PCB and be confident it won't ever get damaged. If you don't have a solder-sucker or the confidence to do it there is bound to be someone you will know that could help you? BigGrin
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline blid  
#8 Posted : 22 October 2017 09:33:11(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
If you install wires and have space for it. Why not take the wires outside of the box. Then you can check the battery anytime and change it easily when/if needed.
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
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Offline PJMärklin  
#9 Posted : 22 March 2019 10:05:32(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Hello Märklineers !


It is now much more than a year since I received good advice on this forum to attend to the battery in my memory units (6043) - see posts above in this thread.
I took all this advice on board, but succumbed to procrastination. RollEyes

Today I finally made the required changes to my first memory unit:


UserPostedImage


I have shown in an earlier post in this thread (# 1 above) how to get the lugs out and open the unit,
to access the battery like so :

(image shows upper side of PCB)

UserPostedImage


I found the trickiest bit was removing the battery from the PCB : working from the underside of the PCB I used a fine-tipped, temp-controlled soldering iron applied to the (4) pins protruding from the battery through to the underside of the PCB, sucking away the molten solder with some fine woven copper ribbon and gently pushing each pin (and attached battery) up through the PCB holes with the hot iron.

I then ran the two wires of a small twin cable through to the underside of the PCB (two convenient holes already there)
and soldered them to the previous battery pole (2) pin points :

(image shows underside of PCB)


UserPostedImage


Then I ran the cable out through the underside of the 6043 plastic chassis, down through a hole I made in my control dashboard
panel to a separate dedicated box below the panel containing the re-located battery (secured in the plastic box by double-sided adhesive strip):


UserPostedImage


where the battery is now remote, safe, easily accessed and replaceable when necessary :


UserPostedImage


Thanks again Cookee for your wise advise !ThumpUp


Regards,

PJBigGrin
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Offline PJMärklin  
#10 Posted : 22 March 2019 10:15:50(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I can understand why a 6043 would have a battery, but does a 6040 or the 6021? What other ones have a battery?


Hi Adrian,

Any of those older devices that need to 'remember' their last powered state will need some form of backup, so yes the 6040 & 6041 to allow correct accessory status indication (assuming the mechanical state has not changed of course - it can't check that)

Not sure about the 6021, I'm fairly sure the 6022/23 does not have one, but I would have to check.

I don't recall seeing this type of battery in my Intellibox either, but it does have backup for quite a period.

Will have to check that also :-)



Oh ... and while I was at it and had the two lefthand digital control (memory) units off the control panel board, I also removed one of my Keyboards (6040) :


UserPostedImage


and opened it up :


UserPostedImage


There does not seem to be a battery in these more recent units.


Regards,

PJ
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Offline cookee_nz  
#11 Posted : 22 March 2019 21:18:47(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I can understand why a 6043 would have a battery, but does a 6040 or the 6021? What other ones have a battery?


Hi Adrian,

Any of those older devices that need to 'remember' their last powered state will need some form of backup, so yes the 6040 & 6041 to allow correct accessory status indication (assuming the mechanical state has not changed of course - it can't check that)

Not sure about the 6021, I'm fairly sure the 6022/23 does not have one, but I would have to check.

I don't recall seeing this type of battery in my Intellibox either, but it does have backup for quite a period.

Will have to check that also :-)


Oh ... and while I was at it and had the two lefthand digital control (memory) units off the control panel board, I also removed one of my Keyboards (6040) :

and opened it up :

There does not seem to be a battery in these more recent units.

Regards,

PJ


Great that they were able to improve the design where those batteries were no longer required. If your two Memory units are close in serial number, they are probably from the same design/production period, but if not it might be worth checking the other one just as a precaution. It would be quite possible to have purchased two new 6040's from the same supplier, but for them to have had one new design and one old design in stock and not even know.

It would be interesting to know if Märklin ever issued technical bulletins to their Dealers advising of production changes like this, and from what serial number/s the changes started.

Does anyone have any first-hand knowledge of dealer communications of this nature? - it would be great to have access to an archive of all bulletins since whenever they started. - Perhaps that's worthy of a new topic in itself.

Cheers, and good job bringing that battery out of the unit. Now that you've done that of course, you'll probably never need to look at it again!! Laugh
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Rwill  
#12 Posted : 22 March 2019 22:14:21(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
In my copy of 0303 Marklin Model Railroading digitally controlled which is dated 1/9/88 the chapter on 6040 includes a paragraph that starts "A built in buffer battery insures that the settings for turnouts and signals are stored even when the digital layout is turned off"
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Offline PJMärklin  
#13 Posted : 23 March 2019 05:40:49(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post


Great that they were able to improve the design where those batteries were no longer required. If your two Memory units are close in serial number, they are probably from the same design/production period, but if not it might be worth checking the other one just as a precaution. It would be quite possible to have purchased two new 6040's from the same supplier, but for them to have had one new design and one old design in stock and not even know.

...



Hi Cookee,

I have now opened and inspected all 3 of my Keyboards (6040).

They do not seem to have batteries.

They were all purchased after 1995

Regards

PJ
Offline PJMärklin  
#14 Posted : 23 March 2019 06:33:26(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
In my copy of 0303 Marklin Model Railroading digitally controlled which is dated 1/9/88 the chapter on 6040 includes a paragraph that starts "A built in buffer battery insures that the settings for turnouts and signals are stored even when the digital layout is turned off"


Hello Rwill,

How interesting !

My copy of 0308 "Getting Started with Märklin Digital" (see image below) is dated 1994 :


UserPostedImage


the chapter 8.2 Keyboard (6040) (page 129) makes no mention of battery but does note
that data is "stored in the memory when the layout is shut off" :


UserPostedImage


I trust you have seen my post today (to Cookee) that notes none of my post1995 Keyboards have batteries.
Thus we may perhaps presume that something changed in the electronic memory technology in the Keyboard units between
1988 and 1994 that dispensed with the need for a memory battery ?

Regards,

PJ
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