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Offline French_Fabrice  
#1 Posted : 14 October 2017 17:18:40(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Hello friends,

I'm in the process of converting all my old locos with ESU LokpilotV4.

However, the one I'm ready to transform has a dual motor.
It is a dark green V188, from 32703 set.

UserPostedImage

So my question is: Is it possible to use a single Lokpilot to do this, or should I use 2 Lokpilots ?

If yes, what are pros and cons ?

Many thanks in advance.

Cheers
Fabrice

Edited by user 07 November 2017 22:48:29(UTC)  | Reason: typo

Offline Ross  
#2 Posted : 16 October 2017 02:03:30(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Fabrice,

One decoder for two motors is usually fine. Try it, the LokPilot will self protect and shut down if the motor load is too much.

Ross
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Ross
Offline GLI  
#3 Posted : 16 October 2017 23:09:26(UTC)
GLI


Joined: 28/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 82
Location: Lithgow NSW Australia
Hi Fabric

Some time ago, I acquired a Marklin SBB Ae 8/14 which was fitted with Marklin digital and two 5 pole DCMs. I use DCC so it was necessary to convert it to operate on my layout. I decided to use two ESU Lokpilot V4 DCC decoders, as the motors seemed to run at different speeds. After installing the decoders, I physically and electrically separated the two halves of the loco, gave each decoder a different address, and ran the locos, adjusting the CVs until the performance of each was identical. I then reconnected the two halves and gave both decoders the same address. This loco is now a firm favorite of mine, and is an exceptional runner for a DCM powered model.

I also have a Hag BLS Ae 8/8 which came with only one motor. Though it is a good performer, I felt an upgrade to two motors was needed and have carried out this modification. As with the Ae 8/14, I fitted it with two ESU Lokpilot V4 DCC decoders. It is sitting on the table in front of me as I type this post waiting for me to find the time to separate the halves and run them to adjust the CVs so their performance is identical.

Is all this effort really necessary? No, it is not. As Ross has already suggested, one decoder would suffice for both motors. But the back emf feature of the decoder would be compromised to some extent. particularly if the motors have different performance characteristics. If you are fussy about loco performance (and I am), then I would use two decoders, otherwise one will suffice.

Geoff
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Offline French_Fabrice  
#4 Posted : 17 October 2017 08:09:16(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Hi Geoff,

Many thanks for your feedback.

The Ae 8/14 is the second one I own with a double motor, still 1997. I remember that when purchasing it, I had to return it to my dealer because of the badly synchronized motors...

So the real question is the state of the motors, not the electronic...

Big dilemma Bored

I think I'll try with one decoder, and if not satisfied I'll add a second one.

Cheers
Fabrice
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
GLI
Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 17 October 2017 12:58:30(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Fabrice, not a problem, have at least done 2 of them just make sure you program them properly. I've put a sound decoder into it and ball bearings

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 18 October 2017 17:46:28(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
The other trick with a Loksound decoder is that it is possible to install two sets of motor sounds in a single decoder, and this loco would be an ideal one to do that. There are a couple of tricks that can be done to tweak the sounds so they run at just slightly different rates so you get the effect of two motors.
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Offline French_Fabrice  
#7 Posted : 18 October 2017 18:52:15(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
The other trick with a Loksound decoder is that it is possible to install two sets of motor sounds in a single decoder, and this loco would be an ideal one to do that. There are a couple of tricks that can be done to tweak the sounds so they run at just slightly different rates so you get the effect of two motors.


Ah, interesting !

So, I'm forced to put a Loksound Wink
Anyway, I'll ask for some help as I'm a beginner with Loksound.

Cheers
fabrice
Offline owidgie  
#8 Posted : 18 October 2017 23:51:49(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 149
There is another option for your Ae 8/14 Lissi hobby make a pcb to retrofit with a 21 pin or an 8 pin decoder of your choice. I did one for a friend. It is a nice easy conversion. I bought one for myself also to put in mine!

Here is a link to the pages:

http://luessi.ch/shop/ca...ath=2&products_id=37

http://luessi.ch/shop/ca...h=2&products_id=2356


Rick
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Offline French_Fabrice  
#9 Posted : 19 October 2017 08:15:12(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Hello Rick,

Thank you for the idea.

I already knew that possibility, but I'm still hesitating.
There is plenty of room to put one (or two) decoder, and if I want to add more functions (like cabin light) the Luessi pcb will not help a lot.

This depends on possible additional functions, and I've not done my choice yet.

Cheers
Fabrice
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 19 October 2017 14:50:12(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
The other trick with a Loksound decoder is that it is possible to install two sets of motor sounds in a single decoder, and this loco would be an ideal one to do that. There are a couple of tricks that can be done to tweak the sounds so they run at just slightly different rates so you get the effect of two motors.


Ah, interesting !

So, I'm forced to put a Loksound Wink
Anyway, I'll ask for some help as I'm a beginner with Loksound.

Cheers
fabrice


Get on the Yahoo Loksound email list as there are a number of very knowledgeable folk there who have done some of these things, and are super good at tuning the decoders.
Offline French_Fabrice  
#11 Posted : 07 November 2017 22:46:50(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Hello,

I've started the conversion of the V188.

My choices are:
-1 single LokPilotM4 21MTC (no sound) with plate 51968
-6 Led outputs : 3 front & 3 rear lights (Yellow Leds); 2 front & 2 red lights (Red Leds) on Aux1 & Aux2; Front & rear cabin light (3528 Led) on Aux3 & Aux4

The Yellow & Red Leds are already provided as original part. I have to add resistors as I have removed the original PCB.

Until so far, the 2 motors are (now correctly) wired and run great on the workbench. Of course, the first wiring attempt was wrong (both motors were running in opposite directionBlushing )

The tricky part was where and how to put the 51968 pcb. There is only 1 or 2mm left when putting back the loco housing, but it fits well.

A few pics of the ongoing conversion:
UserPostedImage
double-sided adhesive tape is the ultimate weapon...

UserPostedImage
cables are prepared for the LEDs

UserPostedImage
Overall

Cheers
Fabrice
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Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 08 November 2017 03:54:41(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
the only problem you may experience, the 2 motors don't run at the same speed. I've converted a BR E 191 with 2 motors and one always runs fast than the other which is a headache but another option you have if this occurs turn of the acceleration and braking delay, this will stop for the motor to work against each other.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#13 Posted : 09 November 2017 22:48:24(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
I've converted mine some months ago with a loksound, all run ok, only the resistence for the white and red led must be different and separately wired.
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Alberto Pedrini
Offline French_Fabrice  
#14 Posted : 11 November 2017 21:02:03(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Hello,

I've done the lighting of rear part !

My 1st attempt was done with resistors soldered to the wires, but it was not a clean job.
So I decided to cut a piece of Veroboard then solder resistors on it, then wire all the stuff.

The 2nd tricky part was to set a removable outlet for the cabin light.

Well, results are not so bad...
Here are the shots:

UserPostedImage
The LED inside the cabin. I changed the color of wire because of the use of ready made micro-connectors

UserPostedImage
The PCB with resistors connected to LED support

UserPostedImage
Rear part of PCB. Thanks to Ross for the simple tip of drilling the copper with a 3mm drill bit ThumpUp, in order to cut the copper lanes

UserPostedImage
Cabin in place with the LED

UserPostedImage
PCB in place. Now let's test...

UserPostedImage
Yellow LEDs

UserPostedImage
Red LEDs

UserPostedImage
Cabin LED

UserPostedImage
Red + Cabin

UserPostedImage
Yellow + Cabin

Now it's time to process the other part. I hope not to get in trouble, because the other side has the decoder and available space is small.
But preparation tests have shown it should fit...

Cheers
Fabrice
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Offline Ross  
#15 Posted : 12 November 2017 22:23:25(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hello Fabrice,

Thanks for your mention. You are doing a nice conversion which is well documented, well done.

Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post
Hello,

UserPostedImage
Rear part of PCB. Thanks to Ross for the simple tip of drilling the copper with a 3mm drill bit ThumpUp, in order to cut the copper lanes

Cheers
Fabrice


Ross
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