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Offline johnmarklin  
#1 Posted : 29 July 2017 19:06:30(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Good afternoon fellow Marklin enthusiasts,

I hope someone out there will be able to help me with this difficult problem. My three ICE sets (3671, 3770 & 3750) were damaged and returned to me by an eBay buyer. All decoders have been blown/short circuited.

I would like to retain originality but if that is not possible I would consider alternative solutions. Does anyone know if:

a) it is possible to have a repair done
b) get reliable replacement boards
c) or how to go about modifying and installing a Lokdekoder or similar decoder

Also the bulbs and fittings of my 3671 were removed (same individual). Does anyone have alternative solution?

Looking forward to your suggestions

Thank you

John
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 30 July 2017 11:20:09(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
John, I've converted 3 ICE (1 x 3371, 1 x 3671) 1 x 3770, all of them I've removed the circuit board and installed my own, there is a circuit board available which I bought but it wasn't suitable for my application, interior lights could not be individual activated. the 3371-3671 has 2 DC motor whereas the 3770 has a 5pole motor.
3371-3671,: unsoldered all 8 connections from original circuit board and than made up my own circuit board and resoldered the 8 connections. added 2 loudspeakers (front & rear) 1 ESU Sounddecoder, 1 Lopi, added Led's to the interior lighting., the task was than to connect all connections to the various solder points, led head lights and marker lights.

but the power switch over from front to rear I've deleted or didn't install (relay)

1 ESU sound decoder 21 pin V4.0 or V4.0 M4 or 8 pin

1 ESU adapter plate only for 21 pin

colour coding wires:

black = track = right through the whole train
red = middle track = pick up shoe front = red wire through the whole train
blue = DC = head and marker lights front = right through the whole train = except 2nd motor car.
white = front light
yellow = marker lights
green = AUX 1 = interior lights = right through the whole train except 2nd motor car
orange = motor left = 2nd motor car = motor right
grey = motor right = 2nd motor car= motor left
loudspeaker = 2 wires 1st loudspeaker = right through the whole train = 2nd loudspeaker

2nd motor car:

ESU lokpilot 21 pin V4.0 or V 4.0 M4 or Lokpilot FX V 4.0 8 pin

1 ESU adapterplate only for 21 pin

colour coding wires:

white = front light
yellow = marker light
red wire = from 1st motor car
black wire = from 1st motor car and from track (ground)
blue wire = for head and marker lights
2 wires for 2nd speaker
grey wire from 1st motor car = 2nd motor car = motor left
orange wire = from 1st motor = 2nd motor car = motor right

3770:

a bit more difficult if you add another motor in the 2nd cab car.

also the electrical connection between each car for the interior lights, some have come with electrical couplings others have not like starter sets.

ESU lokosund decoder 21 pin V 4.0 or V 4.0 M4 or 8 pin

usual connections to the motor, head and marker lights, loudspeaker,

blue wire = right through the whole train
green wire right through the whole train

2nd cab car without motor, 2nd slider

ESU lokpilot 21 pin V 4.0 or V 4.0 M4 or V 4.0 FX 8 pin

1 ESU adapter plate for 21 pin

white wire: front light
yellow wire: marker light
red wire: 2nd slider
black wire: track (ground)

converting it this way you only need 2 wires going through the whole train

regards.,


John

P.S.

what happened with your trains ? how come they got damaged and the decoders blown ?







https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline johnmarklin  
#3 Posted : 30 July 2017 14:22:24(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
John,

Thank you for your reply and the information. It looks an interesting solution and I will certainly consider it as it may be the best option form me.

Briefly (it is a much longer story), I sold the three sets on eBay. One buyer bought all three plus a boxed class 89. Within 1hr 40 mins of items being delivered he contacted me to say that all three ICE sets would not work (most unusual considering that they had been tested before shipping and all worked in accordance with manufacturer's specifications). Obviously not a very careful Marklin enthusiast. After several messages back and forth and for an easy life I agreed to a return with full refund. A couple of hours later the buyer filed a case against me with Paypal. Only three of the four items were returned. He kept the class 89. After receiving returned items I tested all of them. Decoders damaged in them all. Reported this to Paypal who indicated that they would find in my favour. I signed the required affidavit for Paypal and submitted it. Paypal refunded the buyer his money and debited my account. I appealed the decision and am required to furnish independent evaluation which I have now done and am awaiting a decision.

Since submitting the evaluation I have been doing further research. The buyer listed on eBay motorised units (front & rear) of set 3671 approximately 2 hrs after shipping the returned items to me. He also listed the circuit board/decoder of a 3770/3750 at the same time. I was suspicious of the items I got back and am now convinced that the buyer did an exchange with my items because the circuit boards of 3671 of the returned items are item no. 3671 EGS TK 1-2 and item no. 16652. From my research item 16652 is for an analogue set and should not be matched with 3671 EGS TK 1-2. I would however like to confirm this which in turn would prove to Paypal that the buyer was being less than honest

How to explain this to representatives of Paypal who openly admit that they have no technical knowledge will be difficult.

The negotiations continue. Hopefully I will have a positive outcome shortly and then I can go about repairing the sets.

John
Offline DaleSchultz  
#4 Posted : 30 July 2017 14:43:07(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
I think you should also contact your local police and lay fraud charges.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline johnmarklin  
#5 Posted : 30 July 2017 16:43:45(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Dale,

One would be tempted but unfortunately we live in different countries about 2000km apart.
Offline GlennM  
#6 Posted : 30 July 2017 22:49:56(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
I think you should also contact your local police and lay fraud charges.


Sadly I doubt very much if the police would be interested and without clear proof there is little chance of success.

I think it would be useful to name and shame the offender on this Forum, you might be surprised that there may be others with similar stories.

John, I hope your case is resolved to your satisfaction ThumpUp
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline mmervine  
#7 Posted : 31 July 2017 01:02:50(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,883
Location: Keene, NH
John:

Here are boards that would allow you to restore your 3671 with an 8 pn decoder:

https://www.digital-bahn.de/bau_fzg/ice.htm

Also:

Here is a dealer that sells spare parts for ICE's:

http://www.ice-experimen...tm?3371_3671_teile_2.htm

It would also be fairly easy to repair the 3770 and 3750 sets with this:

http://www.ajckids.com/products/Marklin/60973

r/mark
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline river6109  
#8 Posted : 31 July 2017 04:32:10(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
John,

slightly off topic

I had a run with paypal, similar situation, sent a Seetal Crocodile to Belgium, it was in perfect condition and the buyer said when it arrived it was broken, he sent it back to me and I looked at the loco (and it wasn't in the same state when I've posted it, there was no damage to the box) and sent it back, anyhow he filed a complaint , saying he never received the item and wants a refund, also claiming he never received the loco. all in all I've cancelled my paypal account, instructed the bank not to accept any payment demands from Paypal, they've sent me emails saying I have to respond in x amount of days to the claim and log into my account, because I've cancelled my account with Paypal I couldn't respond to it, phoned telephone directory to obtain a telephone number and they said there was no contact number for Paypal. anyhow month past and more emails to respond to the claim but not being able to contact them I gave up, 6 month later I got a letter from a debt collection company asking me to pay the amount or they will take me to court, I've explained my position and 3 month later received a reply unless I pay the amount they'll take me to court, I again wrote back and explained it again, never heard of them again. 6 month later got another letter from another debt company, the same scenario happened, wrote back twice with the same explanation, it lasted for 3 years and the latest debt collection company (hired by Paypal) advised me, Paypal had no ground for pursuing or demanding money from me. the amount was for over A$ 330.00 and I had no intention to pay this amount for a loco a.) I've sent back , b.) was in 100 % condition when I've sent it.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 31 July 2017 04:34:05(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: mmervine Go to Quoted Post
John:

Here are boards that would allow you to restore your 3671 with an 8 pn decoder:

https://www.digital-bahn.de/bau_fzg/ice.htm

Also:

Here is a dealer that sells spare parts for ICE's:

http://www.ice-experimen...tm?3371_3671_teile_2.htm

It would also be fairly easy to repair the 3770 and 3750 sets with this:

http://www.ajckids.com/products/Marklin/60973

r/mark


the spare part from ajckids is for a 21 pin decoder would that make any difference ? instead of an 8 pin

regards.,

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline johnmarklin  
#10 Posted : 31 July 2017 13:38:54(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Thank you all for the useful advice.

Unfortunately Paypal locked the amount in my account 281.00 euro as soon as the buyer filed the case after I had agreed with him to refund him in full. So even if I had closed my account Paypal had already secured their money.

I have since acquired concrete proof that the buyer exchanged my units for damaged units that he had himself but try explaining that to Paypal.

Regarding naming and shaming well that is a risky one considering laws on libel in different jurisdictions.

All of the links will be useful if this saga ever ends. I will then have to make a decision about repairing the items, would it be worth the investment? I hate having Marklin items that do not work but this one is going to be an expensive undertaking.

I will keep you posted.

Regards,

John
Offline steventrain  
#11 Posted : 31 July 2017 20:53:42(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Did you test the locos before on ebay listing?

Did buyer think and decide to bids because it is two-rails? I read your complete list and did not said 3-rails.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline johnmarklin  
#12 Posted : 31 July 2017 22:03:07(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Thanks Steven,

All items were tested using my CS 2before listing. All ICE sets worked perfectly.

My listings clearly states in the item specific section 'Digital'
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Offline johnmarklin  
#13 Posted : 31 July 2017 22:05:32(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Here are boards that would allow you to restore your 3671 with an 8 pn decoder:

https://www.digital-bahn.de/bau_fzg/ice.htm

Also:

Here is a dealer that sells spare parts for ICE's:

http://www.ice-experimen...tm?3371_3671_teile_2.htm

It would also be fairly easy to repair the 3770 and 3750 sets with this:

http://www.ajckids.com/products/Marklin/60973

Has anyone used any of these solutions. I am interested in exploring the what Digital-Bahn has to offer
Offline mmervine  
#14 Posted : 01 August 2017 00:14:05(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,883
Location: Keene, NH
John-yes, I upgraded my 3371 with these boards and a Lokpilot decoder. Very happy with the result!
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
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Offline Pmare4  
#15 Posted : 01 August 2017 00:30:32(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Hi John,

Try emailing someone higher up in Paypal or ringing their customer service. (At least then you'll be speaking to a real person.) Also, have you checked the buyer's feedback that he's left for other sellers?

regards
Peter
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
Offline Nigel Packer  
#16 Posted : 01 August 2017 11:54:46(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: johnmarklin Go to Quoted Post
Here are boards that would allow you to restore your 3671 with an 8 pn decoder:

https://www.digital-bahn.de/bau_fzg/ice.htm

Has anyone used any of these solutions. I am interested in exploring the what Digital-Bahn has to offer



Hello John,

I upgraded my 3671 with the digital-bahn boards, and I am extremely happy with it. I fitted the train with a Marklin mSD3 sound decoder and the Marklin 60973 slider switch-over board. I didn't attempt to change the lighting, as I prefer the look of filament bulbs over LEDs, especially with an old train like this. The train now runs very well indeed, and is my favourite of all Marklin ICEs (I have all of them!). The interior lighting is switchable, and I have many sounds installed, using the 60971 programmer.

When the 3671 was introduced in 1986, it was a technical tour-de-force from Marklin. Less than two years after the original introduction of Digital, this train had two load-balanced Faulhaber motors, and ran at a scale speed of 300kph, with never a derailment. For my computer-controlled layout, this was actually too fast, and the limited number of slow-speed steps in the early decoder meant that the train was difficult to control with software. Now it works beautifully.

In spite of all this, it is an unfortunate fact of life that these trains do not now command a very high resale price. The cost of the upgrades to the train will probably exceed its market value, especially if you go for the full sound option.

I have a complete original new 3671+4171 set that I could sell you, but that's probably not much help to you if you were trying to sell your own one anyway!

The other thing I would say, is that the upgrade to this train is a little tricky, and I wouldn't recommend it as your first decoder upgrade. If you're happy to unsolder and solder fragile ribbon cables and so on, then you will be fine.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with eBay and PayPal, by the way.

Best wishes,

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
Offline johnmarklin  
#17 Posted : 01 August 2017 12:05:28(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
mmervine,

Thank you for that. I will explore this option more if and when I get a resolution.

Pmare4

I have been in regular contact with Paypal through the resolution system. I have uploaded independent assessments, timelines, signed affidavit and responded to every request from Paypal but still no resolution. I have also spoken to a Paypal representatives by phone. Initially I was constantly being re-assured that I had nothing to worry about and that I was covered by 'Seller Protection' but once Paypal issued the full refund there is no more mention of 'Seller Protection' and now the immediate response is 'I will send this on to our resolution team'. Added to all of this I still did not get my fourth item back.

To say that this whole experience is frustrating is an understatement. Has any seller ever won an appeal?
Offline MalinAC  
#18 Posted : 01 August 2017 13:03:00(UTC)
MalinAC

Ireland   
Joined: 29/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: DONEGAL, CARNDONAGH
Hi John, I did win one. I sold a load of Kato n gauge track to a guy in UK. I think it was about 160 pieces in total. Anywa y I found out Paypal put a stop on my account. I found out the guy said I was short on the amount of track . I had a record of what I sent . So I asked what was short.He said I was short 2 straight sections and 2 curves , but he was asking for 50 euro back or he would cancel the sale. At the time I was getting packs of 4 sections from Train-Traks in UK for less than 8 euro . So I said I would send him 4 new sections if that would suit as I sold him used track. Never heard from him again but Paypal just said he dropped his case. The sale was worth over 400 euro to me and I was just getting into Marklin at the time. I think he was going to try and get his money back and only send some of the track back, but when I said I would send the new track over I think Paypal told him to shit or get off the pot. Pardon the language. Eddie
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Offline johnmarklin  
#19 Posted : 01 August 2017 13:35:59(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Well done Eddie,

I live in hope.

John
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Offline Pmare4  
#20 Posted : 01 August 2017 13:56:10(UTC)
Pmare4

Australia   
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 237
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted by: johnmarklin Go to Quoted Post
To say that this whole experience is frustrating is an understatement. Has any seller ever won an appeal?


It happens sometimes, but it's never likely. The whole system is engineered against the seller, which makes it possible for so many buyers to abuse the system. At the school where I go to, I know that there are quite a few other boys (including myself of course!) who use Ebay responsibly and always pay the fees etc. On the other hand, there are a couple who take it as OK to use the system to their advantage. One boy was telling me how easy it would be for him to scam a seller just by opening a dispute with Paypal and saying that the item never arrived. I asked him if he had done it before, turns out he had, although not for a very expensive item. The worst part of it was that he didn't seem to be sorry for what he'd done. But then again, why would he be if he did it on purpose?

P.S. I don't know if these are real or not, but you might want to try here or here for some staff email addresses??? RollEyes

Good luck! Cool

regards
Peter
Peter
Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge
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Offline johnmarklin  
#21 Posted : 02 August 2017 16:56:08(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Peter,

I have emailed a higher authority at Paypal but as of now I have not had a response. It goes on and on!

John
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Offline xxup  
#22 Posted : 03 August 2017 00:26:21(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: Pmare4 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: johnmarklin Go to Quoted Post
To say that this whole experience is frustrating is an understatement. Has any seller ever won an appeal?


It happens sometimes, but it's never likely. The whole system is engineered against the seller, which makes it possible for so many buyers to abuse the system. At the school where I go to, I know that there are quite a few other boys (including myself of course!) who use Ebay responsibly and always pay the fees etc. On the other hand, there are a couple who take it as OK to use the system to their advantage. One boy was telling me how easy it would be for him to scam a seller just by opening a dispute with Paypal and saying that the item never arrived. I asked him if he had done it before, turns out he had, although not for a very expensive item. The worst part of it was that he didn't seem to be sorry for what he'd done. But then again, why would he be if he did it on purpose?

P.S. I don't know if these are real or not, but you might want to try here or here for some staff email addresses??? RollEyes

Good luck! Cool

regards
Peter


This is why you always send the item with a signature request. However, that is not going to work, when someone says that the items in the box are broken, or they claim that an item is missing. I have never sold Marklin on eBay - too risky. I have sold unwanted stuff, but it is so underpriced that only a nut would try to claim and I would be happy to give the $10-25 bucks back anyway..
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline johnmarklin  
#23 Posted : 06 August 2017 13:28:08(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Good afternoon to everyone who commented and offered suggestions.

I am happy to report that Paypal has resolved this case in my favour and a full refund has been made to me. It might have taken a while but I must compliment the people at Paypal. They were thorough in their efforts to get the full facts before making their decision. I found communication with Paypal representatives a pleasant experience and all information offered by me was recorded. eBay also decided in my favour. Communicating with their representatives was also a pleasant experience and full transcripts of my discussions with them was made available to me. This has restored my faith in eBay and Paypal. They are not always on the side of the buyer.

A few words of advice: I had an item damaged while it was in transit with a courier company. The item was insured but despite this the courier company refused to pay because the receiver had not checked the package contents before signing for it at delivery. So advise your buyers to check contents at time of delivery and before signing otherwise insurance is invalid.
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Offline MalinAC  
#24 Posted : 06 August 2017 15:18:03(UTC)
MalinAC

Ireland   
Joined: 29/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: DONEGAL, CARNDONAGH
Hi John, glad to hear everything turned out ok even if it did take some time Eddie
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